From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 3 13:02:04 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, October 3 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1975 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? [db] the Toureg - Diesel solution? :) Re: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? Re: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? [db] status on the great 124 adventure... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:51:08 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? "The Turbonator is a patent pending *non-moving* vortex generator...." It's not a spinner, just angled blades, and yes, I'm sure I've seen another one like it before. Angled blades that fit in your intake tube. I could see how it *might* help if your engine has a very poorly designed intake system. Modern systems from almost everybody are much more advanced, including some that modify the air intake path at different speeds to improve something or other. I'm pretty sure MB has used "dual-stage" or "multi-stage" intake air paths for a couple of engine generations. Any modifications to these highly engineered intakes I would think are likely to reduce efficiency and performance. On something less thoroughly engineered, say late 70's smogged, restricted, 2-barrel-carbed US iron, or maybe a Yugo, it's likely to be easy to improve characteristics of airflow and fuel atomization and mixing. Adding 35HP and 31% fuel economy? Come on, people. Maybe their instructions include cleaning out any debris and replacing the air filter during installation, and they tested a car with a 10-year-old, almost solid air filter and a wad of leaves in the air intake. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:25 AM > To: Jason R Bassett > Cc: Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net; diesel-benz list > Subject: Re: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? > > > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005, Jason R Bassett wrote: > > >-->Interesting idea....might try it with an old computer cooler fan...... > >-->www.turbonator.com > >-->Why should we buy it? > >-->Jason > > This has been a subject of discussion before... I think there is another > product out there like this... > > I need an air intake "muffler" for my 6.2L Diesel, had several from > 5.7L Diesels and tossed 'em out... depending on the price this might > work well to help reduce noise... > > whether it would improve fuel economy is highly unlikely... it's > going to impeded airflow and offer resistance... it's a parasitic > load... that it will swirl the air is really of minimal benefit because > once it hits the throttle body, carb or intake manifold any turbulence > created upstream will be lost... > > this thing can only act as a mild restriction to air flow... a turbo > or supercharger is "pushed" and forces air through faster, > compressing it... > > ONE thought on this thing, if it has enough mass, it might continue to > spin when you pull your toes out of the injectors and offer some mild > "reverse" turbo lag... and help to provide a more constant air flow... > > > To see 35HP and 31% increase in fuel economy is the stuff of snake oil > salesman... A Banks Turbo Kit for a 6.2L: > Banks' ultimate upgrade for 6.2L workhorses provides best gains of > +60 hp and +115 lb-ft torque, plus 10% better fuel economy. > That's no smoke! > > 10% economy... with 60HP... > > it is illogical to assume that a spinning wheel on the intake side that > is merely a parasitic load would increase HP or fuel economy.... > of course > who knows... they might provide those special cow magnets with it > and that's > how they get that much... ;) > > > I've seen fuel economy gains using synthetic lubricants, from > 18.3 to 21.6mpg... > what's that in percentage? certainly not 31%. > > save your money... but if you buy it and it doesn't do all those things > for you, I bet it will help to quiet the air intake noise on my 6.2L . ;) > > BTW, I've experimented around with a variety of air intake systems on my > Diesels... more air helps the 6.2L and 5.7L Diesels but does nothing > for VW or Mercedes... > > john > > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:26:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] the Toureg - Diesel solution? :) On Sun, 2 Oct 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->> is there also a porsche in your future? :) > -->> The Toureg is a wonderful machine... if they put > -->> a reasonable Diesel in that or the Cayenne I'll give > -->> thought to giving up my Grand Cherokee. :) I loved my '85 XJ with a 2.1L TD, the only issue was the manual trans... that and it couldn't tow it's own shadow. :) I'm looking forward to having the 6.2L in my J10... we'll see how the economy works out... > --> > -->They have a 10-cylinder twin-turbo TDI Diesel in the Toureg already: > --> the only problem is fuel economy... only 25mpg max... if they put the smaller 2.5L TDI(see below) in the Toureg it could get closer to 30mpg... but this is still something of interest to me... With a shorter commute... hmmmmmm if I sold my benz AND my soon to be restored J10 I might be able to swing a year or two old Toureg... food for thought my friend... :) from a link from that page: Official EPA fuel economy ratings: With the V6, 15/20mpg (15.7/10.8l/100km) and with the V8, 14/18mpg (17.3/11.8/100km). Towing capacity is 7,700 lbs with either engine. A Hulk-like, 5.0L V10 TDI diesel will be available in 2004. In its European configuration, it produces 303hp and an astounding 553lb-ft of torque. This engine gets raves in Europe and it.s not difficult to see why. First of all, forget everything you think you know about diesels. This diesel is different. This diesel can push the Touareg to 150 mph and 25 mpg, although not, regretfully, at the same time. While it's currently available in Europe, VW doesn't rule out the possibility that its 5 cylinder, 2.5L diesel with 172hp and (gasp!) 400 lb-ft of torque, could be an option for North America late in '05. VW has teased that the all-round performance on the 2.5L diesel is similar to the 4.2L V8 gasoline engine . except it.s two to three times more fuel-efficient. I.m waiting for this one. - --- ME TOO!!! :) > --> > -->Not for me though... I am a "car guy" NOT a "truck guy"... in fact I hate > -->being on the road with anything larger than a stationwagon. The GMC Jimmy I have is too big... my J10 and a Wagoneer (full size) is just about right... they'll fit into a compact space yet tow anything and provide survivability in a crash with everything short of a Mack truck. The Jetta and Beetle are too small and harsh riding for me... strange, I actually liked my Diesel Rabbits... ;) My 124 is just about perfect, but I prefer driving my XJ (Jeep Cherokee) or Full Size Jeep. Getting a Toureg with a Diesel would satisfy all my cravings in one vehicle... How's the reliability of the Toureg in the wild? any quality or maintenance issues? john > -->_______________________________________________________________________ > -->"It is so easy to miss pretty trivial solutions to problems deemed > -->complicated. The goal of a scientist is to find an interesting problem, > -->and live off it for a while. The goal of an engineer is to evade > -->interesting problems :)" -- Vadim Antonov on NANOG ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 16:53:43 -0700 From: "Dan Jacobs" Subject: Re: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? > Interesting idea....might try it with an old computer cooler fan...... > > www.turbonator.com > > Why should we buy it? > > Jason We shouldn't. Snake oil. It leaves a bitter taste in one's mouth. Diesel Dan, your "send your disposable income to me instead, I promise to put it to good use" man in Washougal, WA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 16:59:39 -0700 From: "Dan Jacobs" Subject: Re: [db] (Offtopic) Anybody heard of this? > I could see how it *might* help if your engine has a very poorly designed > intake system. The only good cure to a poorly designed air intake system is to replace it with a good one. The turbonator, in this case, is like putting a condom on _after_ your already having the post coital cigarette. Sure, the intention is good, but isn't it just too late? Diesel Dan, your "you'd get more enjoyment from the cigarette then you would from the turbonator" man in Washougal, WA PS: Yes, I read this stuff twice before I send it. I'm happy ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:57:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] status on the great 124 adventure... just got a call from bruce in the twin cities... the dealership says bad alternator, motor mounts and injector... hopefully they'll fix it all and he'll have an uneventful trip home... should be back on the road with a lighter wallet tomorrow afternoon... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1975 **********************************