From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 8 12:51:40 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, October 8 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1980 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 Re: [db] recent fuel prices Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 Re: [db] Inside the fuel tank (OT ?) Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 Re: [db] Inside the fuel tank (OT ?) Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 12:24:31 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 Politics in general do not belong on the list... But I think *light* debate over fuel related taxes affects all of our diesel machines. That being said... $.375 in 2009? According to "The Tax Foundation" you're already at $.494! http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1054.html Who's numbers are accurate? Jim > John, > > I realize that this is your list, run on your server and such, > but not all of us on here scarf down the conservative ideology espoused > by the Right, (or is that wrong IMHO) political factions. > > You missed quite a few points, such as the 9.5 cent gas tax > increase will be phased in over four years and then the total tax per > gallon of road fuel will only be 37.5 cents in 2009. Maybe people > should have a look at http://www.washingtondefense.org/ for another > point of view. It's a small price to pay for better transportation. > > For those on the list not familiar with the tax fighting over > the past few years in Washington. Over several years Tim Eyman, an > absolute idiot, got on the ballot multiple initiatives that gutted our > states tax system and put strict limits on tax increases. The ignorant > citizens voted for them with only dollar signs in their eyes. The > affect has been horrendous on state services and has come near to > bankrupting our state. It has become such as issue, the state is > considering implementing a state income tax. I, for one have lived in > multiple states and know for fact that living here in Washington is far > cheaper than living in many places like the New England states or > California. Maybe those that don't want to pay for roads can move to > France and pay $7.00 per gallon. Here in the United States we have the > lowest taxes of any First World Country. > > Cheers, > > Nick > > > > > > > painful) > > > > power > > signatures > per at and > > Subject: Re: [db] recent fuel prices john... are you out here??? john John Fieber wrote: > > On Oct 6, 2005, at 9:08 PM, john wrote: > >> just tanked up my 300d... $3.14/gal (got 31.7 mpg so it's not as >> painful) >> >> gas prices for reg unleaded is $2.79 to $2.90. >> >> Diesel prices range from $3.06 through $3.25. > > > Of course, the Island Effect[1] makes everything a bit screwy, but I > get B99 for $3.39 when mid-grade unleaded is going for $3.41. Yes, > that's right, biodiesel is cheaper than gasoline. I forget what the > B20 was going for other than being the same price as dino-diesel, so > who as an excuse to NOT use biodiesel? > > -john > > [1] Vashon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 08:50:42 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 At 9:50 AM -0700 10/7/05, john wrote: >Paying $385 million for the "sounder" that serves 30 people one way, oh yeah, >tickets are $6, but costs the railroad $40 per rider... just doesn't >seem like the folks running the show seem to understand fiscal responsibility. Your data is a bit stale there John. I ride the Sounder at least 4 days a week, and I can tell you that is far from the truth. It runs 75% to 90% full, every day. The southbound trains are packed even tighter, and they have more rail cars. It seems we add more riders every day... I'm sure that >$3 a gallon has something to do with that. It does add about 30 minutes to my overall commute, but I gotta tell ya, reading a book or gazing out the window at the Puget Sound and the Olympic Mtns is a whole lot better than reading my fuel gauge or watching a sea of brake lights and mountains of slow moving cars on I-5. =) Mass transit does begin to pay for itself as it scales, and I have to believe that the Sounder is not costing $40 a rider anymore. I worked for a while in Munich, which is about the same size as Seattle, and they had the foresight to built a large mass-transit system to accomodate the '72 Olympics. The S-bahn & U-bahn get you everywhere you could want to go in Munich. In all the time I spent there, I never rented a car - because I had no need. Seattle too was considering a large scale rail network in the early 70's, but Boeing slumped, and we blinked, and let the opportunity pass us by. The current situation is not the creation of anyone currently, or even recently in power in Olympia. We are all collectively responsible, as are those that ran the show 35 years ago, left, right and center. That said, our political system is BY DESIGN ineffective. In a region this size any amount of NIMBYism can kill a large scale transit effort. In fact it has, over an over again. So we get what we deserve, a fractured patchwork of ineffective public transit (Everett Transit, Metro, Community Transit, Sound Transit, Pierce Transit, etc etc.) There will always be stuff to complain about, no matter what steps we take, either collectively or induvidually to address any number of problems. >The truth is not well known as the media in this state is pretty far >to the left >and has an agenda. EVERYONE has an "agenda"... you, me, Tim Eyeman AND the guy who says Eyeman's a "horse's ass"** the only thing annoying about that is when one agenda disagrees with another, but hey, that's called Democracy. =) As for media, I don't buy it that they are "left wing" any more than they are "right wing"... The media is in the advertising business, *not* politics. The media is really only concerned about what sells advertising, period. The self-concerned and smarter of the media outlets has learned to pander to either side of the political spectrum because the unfortunate truth of the matter today is that the Political Parties are no longer in the political business, they've just become large scale advertisers. - --chuck "call me apolitical" goolsbee Arlington, WA ** Both of whom, by the way were clients of my company, and ironically had their websites on the same server [by accident, not design] during that particular political season. There was a short time when Eyeman's followers, being misguided and obviously misinformed, atempted to wage some "electronic warfare" agaist the other guy. You can guess what the (un)desired result was. Thankfully a phone call to the clients in question put a swift end to the shenanigans. sigh... I hate politics. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:30:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Inside the fuel tank (OT ?) should be fine. kerosene is used in the winter to thin Diesel fuel. john On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: >-->On Friday 07 October 2005 12:33, my mailbox was graced by >-->a missive from Renaud (Ron) Olgiati who wrote: >--> >-->> Clean it (shake with length of chain and a gallon of kerosene inside), >-->> degrease it (more clean kerosene), >--> >-->Once I have used the gallon of kerosene as a degreaser, is it all right to add >-->it, once filtered, to a tankfull of Diesel ? >--> >-->TIA, >--> >-->Ron. >-->-- >--> Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at least two to one. >--> >--> -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->At 9:50 AM -0700 10/7/05, john wrote: > -->> Paying $385 million for the "sounder" that serves 30 people one way, oh > -->Your data is a bit stale there John. I ride the Sounder at least 4 days a > -->It does add about 30 minutes to my overall commute, but I gotta tell ya, > -->reading a book or gazing out the window at the Puget Sound and the Olympic > -->Mtns is a whole lot better than reading my fuel gauge or watching a sea of > -->brake lights and mountains of slow moving cars on I-5. =) Mass transit does > -->begin to pay for itself as it scales, and I have to believe that the Sounder > -->is not costing $40 a rider anymore. now it would be really cool if they had free wireless on the trains or bus... I could do email, check systems at work, bother my list mates... that extra time spent commuting would indeed be acceptable... if it only added 30 minutes to my commute it wouldn't be so bad... but I have to go north to everett, park, then figure out how to get from the old king dome to work, no direct bus lines... talked to folks at work, would have to take two busses and still walk a mile. That's the other part that doesn't work for me. It would easily add an hour to an hour and a half to a forty five minute commute... :( My daughter used the bus to get to UW, but it solved the problem of parking down there and with a fixed schedule worked out ok. As a sysadmin I can't really plan on just leaving at a particular time... that doesn't work too well some days. Same reason carpools don't work either... :( > -->That said, our political system is BY DESIGN ineffective. In a region this > -->size any amount of NIMBYism can kill a large scale transit effort. In fact > -->it has, over an over again. So we get what we deserve, a fractured patchwork > -->of ineffective public transit (Everett Transit, Metro, Community Transit, > -->Sound Transit, Pierce Transit, etc etc.) > -->sigh... I hate politics. agreed. I'm tired of this discussion too. it's a complex issue and it appears that the data on both sides is flawed or incomplete. All I know is that the voters often say no and our leaders do it anyway... or do things that don't help the majority... could be why 912 got 420,000 signatures in 32 days... that's saying something about the issue. Anyway, time to go play with veggie oil and find out when I start working in everett... ;) Did you get your alternator yet? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 10:42:56 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Inside the fuel tank (OT ?) Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: On Friday 07 October 2005 12:33, my mailbox was graced by a missive from Renaud (Ron) Olgiati who wrote: Clean it (shake with length of chain and a gallon of kerosene inside), degrease it (more clean kerosene), Once I have used the gallon of kerosene as a degreaser, is it all right to add it, once filtered, to a tankfull of Diesel ? TIA, Ron. Ron: I do not think kerosene is suitable as a final degreaser. I suspect tat there will be some percentage of heavy petroleum fractions remaining afterwards. I would want to use a more volatile solvent as final rinse. Isopropanol 99% would certainly fit that bill as well as many other solvents, some not as safe for humans. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA '86 300 SDL '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '85 6.9L F350 Crew Cab ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:42:39 -0700 From: "Dan Jacobs" Subject: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 John, while the price we pay for fuel is relevant to us being able to drive our diesel vehicles, the politics behind it is _not_. I sent an e-mail to Nick (I think) that had a more detailed explanation, that was intended for the whole list. I now cannot find it in my sent e-mail folder. Whoever got that and thought it was sent to personally sting them, I apologize. I made a mistake that could have been avoided if I had just checked who the message was addressed to. If you didn't get the one I misaddressed, here is the Readers Digest version. Politics can make fast enemies out of good friends. The name calling, assaults on opinions, and long lasting hurt feelings are not worth the it here. IMO, this is a diesel bens list, and was chartered to discuss the care and feeding of our vehicles, not the politics of WA state fuel prices or taxes. If I want to hear a bunch of political bickering and snobbery, all I have to do is turn on the television or the radio. I don't want it here. If it continues, I will unsubscribe. This may not mean anything to anyone here personally, and I'm fine with that. _My_ sanity is worth protecting. And if you think I am saying this just because I don't have anything to say on the topic, try thinking about filling two 120 gallon fuel tanks, being mindful of the weight you're adding to the vehicle and on which axle group, and keeping track of the miles you drive in each state to properly portion the fuel taxes, and seek any rebates. Politics can turn good friends in to bitter enemies with no intent to do so at all. Take it off list if you must discuss it please. I submit all of this respectfully, and with no power at all over how the list is run. Dan - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Nick Eckert" Cc: Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [db] RE: Recent fuel Price - NOW: I-912 > well, having lived in several states and two different countries I > disagree with your analysis and appreciate what the guy you're calling > names because before his initiative I could not afford either of the > vehicles I currently drive. Paying as much as $2,000 a year for license > tabs to drive a five year old vehicle was a bit out of my budget. The > issue is accountability and stewardship. The hike in gas tax does neither > and opens the door for more taxes to spend without productive results. > > Paying $385 million for the "sounder" that serves 30 people one way, oh > yeah, > tickets are $6, but costs the railroad $40 per rider... just doesn't > seem like the folks running the show seem to understand fiscal > responsibility. > > This is an issue relevant to this list, btw, we're talking about being > able to drive our vehicles. These issues are related to others across the > country and knowing what others are doing is very much a reason for the > existence > of this list. However, let's not resort to name calling. > > I am working with several folks who are forced to live quite a ways from > work > to find an affordable place to live... e.g. Granite Falls, Arlington even > Mount Vernon. These folks are making around $10/hr... these gas taxes are > hitting them especially heavy as they are also driving older vehicles that > are troublesome on many levels, especially in the areas of economy. > > This is a very regressive tax... painful for those struggling... > > > FYI: > In a progressive tax, the more you earn, the higher your tax rate. > In a regressive tax, the less you earn, the higher your tax rate. > > The classical progressive tax is income tax. > The classical regressive tax is sales tax. > > The forcing of employers in King County/Seattle to charge employees for > parking > is a penalty for driving. The gas tax is also a penalty. However, there > is no > alternative for many of us as we can not afford to live in Seattle with > housing > prices hovering around half a million bucks and that's for a smallish > place. > > It's quite a paradox. > > As far as the state going bankrupt, that's a blantant myth. The > constitution > prohibits incurring debt, and there is currently a budget surplus, or > was... > > The truth is not well known as the media in this state is pretty far to > the left > and has an agenda. > > In the meantime, I calculated my average "lifetime" economy on Shadowfax > at 29.98 mpg! :) > > john > > > > On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Nick Eckert wrote: > >>-->John, >>--> >>--> I realize that this is your list, run on your server and such, >>-->but not all of us on here scarf down the conservative ideology espoused >>-->by the Right, (or is that wrong IMHO) political factions. >>--> >>--> You missed quite a few points, such as the 9.5 cent gas tax >>-->increase will be phased in over four years and then the total tax per >>-->gallon of road fuel will only be 37.5 cents in 2009. Maybe people >>-->should have a look at http://www.washingtondefense.org/ for another >>-->point of view. It's a small price to pay for better transportation. >>--> >>--> For those on the list not familiar with the tax fighting over >>-->the past few years in Washington. Over several years Tim Eyman, an >>-->absolute idiot, got on the ballot multiple initiatives that gutted our >>-->states tax system and put strict limits on tax increases. The ignorant >>-->citizens voted for them with only dollar signs in their eyes. The >>-->affect has been horrendous on state services and has come near to >>-->bankrupting our state. It has become such as issue, the state is >>-->considering implementing a state income tax. I, for one have lived in >>-->multiple states and know for fact that living here in Washington is far >>-->cheaper than living in many places like the New England states or >>-->California. Maybe those that don't want to pay for roads can move to >>-->France and pay $7.00 per gallon. Here in the United States we have the >>-->lowest taxes of any First World Country. >>--> >>-->Cheers, >>--> >>-->Nick >>--> >>--> >>--> >>--> >>-->>--> >>-->>--> >>-->>-->painful) >>--> >>-->>--> >>-->>--> >>-->>deal >>-->>-->>-->power >>-->>--> >>-->>-->signatures >>-->>-->>-->>-->per >aimed >>-->at >bridge >>-->and >-->>--> >>-->>--> >>-->>--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1980 **********************************