From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 21 16:09:41 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, October 21 2005 Volume 01 : Number 1999 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] list question/help please Re: [db] list question/help please RE: [Mercedes] [db] tach question for a suffering friend with a 91 350SD Re: [db] Second article Re: [db] Second article Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:16:10 -0500 From: richard Subject: Re: [db] list question/help please thank you, thank you,,, all is well now sincerely, richard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] list question/help please On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, richard wrote: > -->greetings, > -->would someone please instruct me on how to switch to digest mode, instead of > -->indvidual mode > -->thanking all in advance, > -->richard http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/diesel-benz-list.html john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:13:05 -0400 From: "Cool" Subject: RE: [Mercedes] [db] tach question for a suffering friend with a 91 350SD The 350SD has a turbo right? Ask him if he is getting boost while the tach is not working? Also, does the ABS light come on? Many of these "electrical gremlins" in the 124 can be created by a malfunctioning over voltage relay, I'll bet the SD has similar electronics to the 124. My '91 300D had these symptoms. The over voltage relay solved the problem completely. Fred - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 12:27 PM To: Al Lumas Cc: Alec Cordova; Diesel-Benz List; Mercedes Mailing List Subject: Re: [Mercedes] [db] tach question for a suffering friend with a 91 350SD yes. because of the common failure that seems more likely than the sensor itself, but that was addressed already... my comment was only about the location of the sensor, it's far more likely to be a bad ground common to all of those things. :) good point. john On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Al Lumas wrote: > -->Shouldn't he "get started" by replacing fuses and checking relays? > --> > -->Al > --> > -->At 08:35 PM 10/20/05, john wrote: > -->> the hall effect sensor on my '83 300SD sat on the front of > -->> the engine, a royal pain to replace... suspect it'll be > -->> in the same neighborhood on his... > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: > -->> > -->> > --> A friend/neighbor of mine has a 91 350SD. Yes, that SD, > -->> > --> although he > -->> claims > -->> > --> not to have experienced any internal engine problems yet. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> He called me yesterday about a new problem. All of a > -->> > --> sudden, his tach > -->> > --> dropped out and idle got rough. His A/C compressor shut > -->> > --> off, too, but I'm > -->> > --> confident that's a result of the dead tach. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> He wants to try to trace this down if it's a > -->> > --> straightforward electrical > -->> > --> problem, but he has no wiring diagrams for his beast. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> So, I figure I can get him started if someone can tell me > -->> > --> where the tach > -->> > --> pickup lives on a 91 350SD. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> Thanks, > -->> > --> Alec Cordova > -->> > --> Taylor, Texas > -->> > --> 89 300CE, 194K > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> --------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> --------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > -->> > -->> _______________________________________________ > -->> mercedes-at-mercedesmailinglist.com > -->> http://mail.mercedesmailinglist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:48:16 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Second article Diesel cars are banned in Tokyo, the only exemption is for vehicles over a certain GVW such as HUMMERs and delivery trucks. I am familiiar with the issue, used to sell HUMMERs to Japan befor GM took over the marketing.. Edward Jim Hoffman wrote: >Ford Escape? > >Jim > > > >>it's funny that I didn't see any Diesel passenger cars at all in Tokyo... >>but no, no Diesels in Hondas that I've heard or seen here in the >> >> >states. :( > > >>just these goofy hybrids... looking at the specs for the ford hyrbid, >>gets better economy in town than on the highway... (the freedom or >> >> >mini-explorer thing) > > >>john >> >>On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >> >> >> >>>-->Do Honda not sell the Accord with the brilliant i-CTDi engine over >>>-->there no? I'm really suprised by this article... ya don't know what >>>-->you are missing ;-) >>>-->Steve >>>--> >>>-->On 10/21/05, john wrote: >>>-->> the multiple injection technique is something I guess they're doing >>>-->> on the newer cummins engines... makes them a lot quieter... my >>> >>> >neighbor > > >>>-->> has a friend with a new dodge and it's hard to tell if it's her >>> >>> >WJ starting > > >>>-->> up or the cummins until he stands on the go pedal to get out of >>> >>> >my drive... > > >>>-->> my other neighbor has that earlier vintage cummins and it'll >>> >>> >pound nails > > >>>-->> with the sound. ;) >>>-->> >>>-->> the world of trucks has reopened to me without the limitations >>> >>> >of a 60 mile > > >>>-->> commute and a parking garage to contend with... going to look at >>> >>> >the smallest, > > >>>-->> lightest, most compact Diesel offerings when I have some free >>> >>> >time... oh, in about > > >>>-->> six months to a year maybe... ;) >>>-->> >>>-->> john >>>-->> >>>-->> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >>>-->> >>>-->> >-->My understanding is that while we may have reduced diesel >>> >>> >sulfur content, we > > >>>-->> >-->didn't do it as dramatically as the Europeans. >>>-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->And of course isn't diesel smoking simply a result of >>> >>> >stuffing too much fuel > > >>>-->> >-->into the cylinders? Reasonably well designed injection pumps >>> >>> >should minimize > > >>>-->> >-->smoking. Or injection pumps that aren't squirting in enough >>> >>> >fuel to take full > > >>>-->> >-->advantage of the amount of air, like an OM617 whose ALDA >>> >>> >isn't cranked. > > >>>-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->Newer computer controlled systems that even provide multiple >>> >>> >small injections > > >>>-->> >-->per single combustion cycle control smoking even better, as >>> >>> >well as > > >>>-->> >-->controlling noise and emissions better than older styles. >>>-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->Alec >>>-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->Quoting john : >>>-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> we went to a low(er) sulfur content fuel back in the >>>-->> >-->> early '90s... smoking Diesels are kind of rare now... is >>>-->> >-->> the Diesel here still laden with sulfur??? >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> My Jimmy is an older 6.2L Diesel and it doesn't smoke, and >>> >>> >it's > > >>>-->> >-->> tired... >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> Ignorance about things mechanical is the problem. Most people >>>-->> >-->> are quite technically illiterate and amazingly proud of their >>>-->> >-->> ignorance. They seem happier depending upon a public transit >>>-->> >-->> system then their own vehicle. We saw how well that worked in >>>-->> >-->> a disaster. >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> john >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->Diesel Deliverance? >>>-->> >-->> >-->By Eric Peters >>>-->> >-->> >-->10/16/05 >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->So, how come we're deprived of these great engines? Is >>> >>> >it a conspiracy? > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->The evil machinations of the Illuminati? >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->Nope. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->The reason is as close as your local filling station. >>> >>> >The diesel that's > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->available in this country is fine for big rigs but >>> >>> >terrible for modern > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->high-efficiency passenger car diesels. The stuff we >>> >>> >have is laden with > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->sulfur, and putting high-sulfur diesel into a modern >>>-->> >-->> >-->high-performance/high-efficiency >>> >>> >turbo-direct-injection diesel > > >>>-->> >-->> passenger >>>-->> >-->> >-->car engine is like pouring Karo syrup into the tank of >>> >>> >your Pinto. The > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->results, in both cases, are not pretty. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->European diesels are precision machines that need >>> >>> >high-grade, > > >>>-->> >-->> low-sulfur >>>-->> >-->> >-->content fuel. Fed properly, they deliver all the good >>> >>> >things--high > > >>>-->> >-->> >-->specific output and great mileage--with none of the >>> >>> >bad stuff--clouds > > >>>-->> >-->> of >>>-->> >-->> >-->smoke, high-emissions output and warranty or repair >>> >>> >problems. > > >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->But thanks to short-sightedness on our part, we did >>> >>> >nothing over the > > >>>-->> >-->> >-->past 10-20 years to get low-sulfur diesel into the >>> >>> >pipeline; the sooty, > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->high-sulfur swill we had was a-OK for the big rigs, >>> >>> >and that, > > >>>-->> >-->> >-->apparently, was good enough for us. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->(Hey, gasoline was only $1.40 per gallon. Why bother >>> >>> >with diesel, > > >>>-->> >-->> right? >>>-->> >-->> >-->Right.) >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->This is why we don't get the 530d, LR3 diesel or any >>> >>> >of the other > > >>>-->> >-->> >-->state-of-the-art diesel-powered vehicles currently >>> >>> >available in Europe. > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->The manufacturers are not about to sell vehicles that >>> >>> >won't run > > >>>-->> >-->> properly >>>-->> >-->> >-->on the available fuel. Indeed, there are so many >>> >>> >potential problems in > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->terms of emissions issues alone they'd be crazy to >>> >>> >even try. Next to > > >>>-->> >-->> the >>>-->> >-->> >-->IRS, the EPA is the last government agency you want >>> >>> >drawing a target on > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->your back. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->So, until we can get decent quality diesel fuel, >>> >>> >supposedly sometime in > > >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->2007, we'll just have to wait. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->And pay. >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->Comment on this article >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >>> >>> >>-->>-->> >> >>>-->> >-->oUserId=533355982&webtag=ws-automobile&replyToTid=187587> >>>-->> >-->> >>>-->> >-->> >-->in the Automobile Forum >>> >>> >. > > >>>-->> >-->> >--> >>>-->> >-->> >-->COPYRIGHT 2005 ERIC PETERS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:08:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Second article interesting, that WOULD explain it. john On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->Diesel cars are banned in Tokyo, the only exemption is for vehicles over >-->a certain GVW such as HUMMERs and delivery trucks. I am familiiar with >-->the issue, used to sell HUMMERs to Japan befor GM took over the marketing.. >--> >-->Edward >--> >-->Jim Hoffman wrote: >--> >-->>Ford Escape? >-->> >-->>Jim >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>it's funny that I didn't see any Diesel passenger cars at all in Tokyo... >-->>>but no, no Diesels in Hondas that I've heard or seen here in the >-->>> >-->>> >-->>states. :( >-->> >-->> >-->>>just these goofy hybrids... looking at the specs for the ford hyrbid, >-->>>gets better economy in town than on the highway... (the freedom or >-->>> >-->>> >-->>mini-explorer thing) >-->> >-->> >-->>>john >-->>> >-->>>On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: >-->>> >-->>> >-->>> >-->>>>-->Do Honda not sell the Accord with the brilliant i-CTDi engine over >-->>>>-->there no? I'm really suprised by this article... ya don't know what >-->>>>-->you are missing ;-) >-->>>>-->Steve >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->On 10/21/05, john wrote: >-->>>>-->> the multiple injection technique is something I guess they're doing >-->>>>-->> on the newer cummins engines... makes them a lot quieter... my >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>neighbor >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> has a friend with a new dodge and it's hard to tell if it's her >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>WJ starting >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> up or the cummins until he stands on the go pedal to get out of >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>my drive... >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> my other neighbor has that earlier vintage cummins and it'll >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>pound nails >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> with the sound. ;) >-->>>>-->> >-->>>>-->> the world of trucks has reopened to me without the limitations >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>of a 60 mile >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> commute and a parking garage to contend with... going to look at >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>the smallest, >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> lightest, most compact Diesel offerings when I have some free >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>time... oh, in about >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> six months to a year maybe... ;) >-->>>>-->> >-->>>>-->> john >-->>>>-->> >-->>>>-->> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->>>>-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->My understanding is that while we may have reduced diesel >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>sulfur content, we >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->didn't do it as dramatically as the Europeans. >-->>>>-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->And of course isn't diesel smoking simply a result of >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>stuffing too much fuel >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->into the cylinders? Reasonably well designed injection pumps >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>should minimize >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->smoking. Or injection pumps that aren't squirting in enough >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>fuel to take full >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->advantage of the amount of air, like an OM617 whose ALDA >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>isn't cranked. >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->Newer computer controlled systems that even provide multiple >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>small injections >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->per single combustion cycle control smoking even better, as >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>well as >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->controlling noise and emissions better than older styles. >-->>>>-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->Alec >-->>>>-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->Quoting john : >-->>>>-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> we went to a low(er) sulfur content fuel back in the >-->>>>-->> >-->> early '90s... smoking Diesels are kind of rare now... is >-->>>>-->> >-->> the Diesel here still laden with sulfur??? >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> My Jimmy is an older 6.2L Diesel and it doesn't smoke, and >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>it's >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> tired... >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> Ignorance about things mechanical is the problem. Most people >-->>>>-->> >-->> are quite technically illiterate and amazingly proud of their >-->>>>-->> >-->> ignorance. They seem happier depending upon a public transit >-->>>>-->> >-->> system then their own vehicle. We saw how well that worked in >-->>>>-->> >-->> a disaster. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> john >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->Diesel Deliverance? >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->By Eric Peters >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->10/16/05 >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->So, how come we're deprived of these great engines? Is >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>it a conspiracy? >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->The evil machinations of the Illuminati? >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->Nope. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->The reason is as close as your local filling station. >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>The diesel that's >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->available in this country is fine for big rigs but >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>terrible for modern >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->high-efficiency passenger car diesels. The stuff we >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>have is laden with >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->sulfur, and putting high-sulfur diesel into a modern >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->high-performance/high-efficiency >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>turbo-direct-injection diesel >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> passenger >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->car engine is like pouring Karo syrup into the tank of >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>your Pinto. The >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->results, in both cases, are not pretty. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->European diesels are precision machines that need >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>high-grade, >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> low-sulfur >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->content fuel. Fed properly, they deliver all the good >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>things--high >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->specific output and great mileage--with none of the >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>bad stuff--clouds >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> of >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->smoke, high-emissions output and warranty or repair >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>problems. >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->But thanks to short-sightedness on our part, we did >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>nothing over the >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->past 10-20 years to get low-sulfur diesel into the >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>pipeline; the sooty, >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->high-sulfur swill we had was a-OK for the big rigs, >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>and that, >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->apparently, was good enough for us. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->(Hey, gasoline was only $1.40 per gallon. Why bother >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>with diesel, >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> right? >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->Right.) >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->This is why we don't get the 530d, LR3 diesel or any >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>of the other >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->state-of-the-art diesel-powered vehicles currently >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>available in Europe. >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->The manufacturers are not about to sell vehicles that >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>won't run >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> properly >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->on the available fuel. Indeed, there are so many >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>potential problems in >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->terms of emissions issues alone they'd be crazy to >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>even try. Next to >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> the >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->IRS, the EPA is the last government agency you want >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>drawing a target on >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->your back. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->So, until we can get decent quality diesel fuel, >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>supposedly sometime in >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->2007, we'll just have to wait. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->And pay. >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->Comment on this article >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>>-->>-->-->>> >-->>> >-->>>>-->> >-->oUserId=533355982&webtag=ws-automobile&replyToTid=187587> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->in the Automobile Forum >-->>>> >-->>>> >-->>. >-->> >-->> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >--> >-->>>>-->> >-->> >-->COPYRIGHT 2005 ERIC PETERS >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #1999 **********************************