From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Oct 25 04:49:39 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, October 25 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2006 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Benz 300CDT "Looking to get more power" Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel Re: [db] Benz 300CDT "Looking to get more power" RE: [db] [Fwd: [Veg_Oil_Engines] Quick intro.] [db] new directory on wagoneers.com Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:36:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Benz 300CDT "Looking to get more power" what's worked well for me in the older mercedes Diesels is the amsoil diesel fuel modifier. I'm running some of the amsoil diesel fuel concentrate in my 6.2L Diesel right now to undo some of the veggie oil excess. ;) more than 50% veggie oil is not suitable... ;) john On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->Oh yeah. We all forgot about the Italian tuneup. >--> >-->Once you have adjusted the valves and replaced fluids and filters, definitely >-->drive it hard. It always seems to me that the MB engineers of that era knew >-->that their diesels didn't have lots of power, so they designed them expecting >-->drivers to use everything they could get out of the motor. The insides stay >-->cleaner when they're driven hard, restoring power and fuel economy, and the >-->motors easily hold up to the heavy use. >--> >-->With only 90K miles in 25 years, I would expect power, smoothness (especially >-->at idle) and economy to increase for at least a few weeks if you start >-->driving >-->it like the engineers intended. >--> >-->On a related note, about the only fuel additives we generally consider to do >-->less harm than good are Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge (particular when used >-->straight), Chevron Techron (valid for use in diesels), and maybe an Amsoil or >-->Redline product. STP and Marvel Mystery Oil won't do anything for this car >-->but >-->lighten your wallet. >--> >-->Alec >--> >--> >-->Quoting Kevin : >--> >-->> On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 09:42:50AM -0700, Rick Henry wrote: >-->> > I just joined the group after purchasing a 1980 Benz CDT (with only 90k >-->> > miles) I have the car at the shoping getting a few things tuned. Purchase >-->> >-->> > car from older lady who is moving back to Spain (lucky me). >-->> >-->> First thing I'd do in that case is forget any other performance >-->> enhancements. >-->> Adjust the valves (or get them adjusted), then drive it like you stole it. >-->> Find uphill freeway onramps that you can put your foot through the >-->> radiator >-->> going up. Watch the clouds of smoke come out the tailpipe as you free 25 >-->> years of local grocery duty from the poor carboned up heads. >-->> >-->> If it is truly an 80, it's a non-turbo, and with 77 hp it's not about to >-->> break any speed records. My brother's 78 sedan with that engine will do >-->> 90, >-->> however. >-->> >-->> > While on the net I have seen several web pages taking about the >-->> Bio-Diesel >-->> > topics, but not to much on how to get more power out of your car. I plan >-->> to >-->> > learn more about Bio-Diesel, but for now I will get ripped off by the >-->> price >-->> > at the station is SoCal. >-->> >-->> There is less energy content per gallon in bio than #2, but the cost >-->> advantage >-->> of #2 is quickly going away as oil companies exploit a fragile economy >-->> that >-->> is heavily dependent on oil. Your car will run fine on bio with no mods, >-->> just >-->> keep a spare set of fuel filters in your trunk, as the bio might loosen >-->> crud and clog a filter - biodiesel's a bit more aggressive in cleaning out >-->> tanks than #2 is. >-->> >-->> > I am looking at purchasing a Mercedes K&N Cold Air Intake 300D W123 300SD >-->> >-->> > W126 it's on e-bay for about $150.00 right now. Any advise on this is a >-->> good >-->> > price or worth the investment , as well as any other ways to fine to my >-->> > great car WOULD BE GREAT. >-->> >-->> K&Ns are a waste of money on any diesel. Diesels operate with more air >-->> than >-->> they can handle to begin with, then meter fuel (which is backwards of a >-->> gas engine). On top of that, the mercedes air intake system is well >-->> optimized, >-->> and K&Ns let more crud in that you don't want scrubbing your cylinder >-->> walls. >-->> >-->> K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel agreed, the problem I had in my 6.2L is the viscosity/spray pattern, mileage dropped with excessive mix.... my '91 300D 2.5L TD at 30% was fine, but the fuel is preheated... there is a fuel heater after the primary filter. john On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, ernest breakfield wrote: >-->actually, heating WVO isn't about getting it "through the filter", it's >-->bout getting the viscosity down to where it will get through the Injector >-->Pump without overloading it, and where it can be atomized properly by the >-->injectors themselves. >--> yes, improper atomization by the injectors will lead to more unburned >-->fuel in the cylinders and all the problems that invites, but i don't >-->know how much (if any) bearing that would have on the polymerization >-->issues. >--> >--> FWIW, some of the people i know running WVO have actually had to >-->up-rate the thermostats in their 617s to get the things to stay up to >-->proper temps; apparently the WVO burns so much cooler that it's hard to >-->get these old beasts to warm up enough, and many (if not most) people >-->believe they're more likely to build up Bad Stuff in the cylinders if >-->they're not running up to temp. >--> >--> >-->cheers! >-->e >--> >-->'85 300D (B100) >-->Berkeley >--> >--> >-->> Well, true... But I was thinking more about the guys that start >-->> their vehicle on regular diesel then switch to straight WVO. Sure >-->> it's heated but really only to the point where it flows enough >-->> to get through the filter. It's not that *hot*. And I don't >-->> think that the polymerization problem will go away just from heating >-->> the WVO. I'd need to see much more evidence that that would be the >-->> case. Just not worth the risk for me.... >-->> >-->> Jim >-->> >-->>> >-->>> and I doubt it was heated... reading and experimenting, yes >-->>> I agree that too much unheated veggie oil won't work, been there, >-->>> done that... >-->>> >-->>> mixing it with dino diesel does work, and so does heating it to >-->>> the proper viscosity and of course stopping/starting on dino oil. >-->>> >-->>> if one ran straight veggie oil without heating it it would not >-->>> spray properly and cause cylinder wear and so on. >-->>> >-->>> john >-->>> >-->>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: >-->>> >-->>> > -->At 12:43 PM -0400 10/22/05, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->>> > -->> After reading chapter 2 in this new book I bought, I don't think >-->>> I'd >-->>> > -->> run WVO in any of my vehicles. A quick quote: >-->>> > -->> >-->>> > -->> "In virtually all cases, if the vegetable oils were used over a >-->>> long >-->>> > -->> period of time, the engine could be seriously damaged." >-->>> > --> >-->>> > --> >-->>> > -->That refers to tests run with SVO, not a WVO/petro-Diesel mix. >-->>> > --> >-->>> > --> >-->>> > -->-- >-->>> > -->--chuck goolsbee >-->>> > -->02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) >-->>> > -->arlington, wa, usa >-->>> > --> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Ummmm... that would be me ;) been there done that... no plans on going back... ;) john >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> mixing it with dino diesel does work, and so does heating it to >-->> > the proper viscosity and of course stopping/starting on dino oil. >-->> > >-->> OF course, what you meant to say was stopping/starting on BIOdiesel.... as >-->> there is no real reason to run on dino diesel anymore (unless you're that >-->> poor list member who lives somewhere that it gets to be -20 or whatever >-->> awful tempertature he said. ick). >-->> c >-->> >-->> -- >-->> Proud owner of an 84 300d turbo running B100 >-->> (if you don't know what this means, just ask!) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:41:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Benz 300CDT "Looking to get more power" I've got one... wrapped in amsoil filter material... ;) actually have had several over the years, that's why I hate them so much... ;) john On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Ah yes, the ongoing K&N evil vs. not debate... I have a K&N filter >-->in my Ford F-350 7.3l Turbo IDI and it works great. I'm curious >-->to know how many of you nay-sayers actually have had a K&N filter >-->in your vehicle... As a user of the product I can say that it does >-->indeed improve performance and mine is a real work truck not a >-->*fashion statement*. >--> >-->Just my $.02 >--> >-->Jim >--> >--> >-->> all a K&N will do is create more work to clean it and allow fine particles >-->> to pass through and ruin your engine. the mercedes air intake system is >-->> already optimized, I've experimented with them and the VWs... >-->> >-->> http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/kn-vs-amsoil-according-to-john.html >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Paul Brown wrote: >-->> >-->> > -->Jan is correct. The K&N will let more air flow, but that is irrelevant for >-->> > -->a diesel engine. The filter will not give you more power. >-->> > --> >-->> > -->Jan Guthrie wrote: >-->> > -->> Don't buy the K&N filter... it will do nothing positive for your car. >-->> > -->> It only lets more dirt into the engine. It will NOT add power. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:07:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] [Fwd: [Veg_Oil_Engines] Quick intro.] we need pictures of these creations... ;) fwiw, I feel like I just retired... managed to move my last day with the company in seattle up to today... :) feel great... start working on the dreamliner end of the week... short commute... regular hours, local work, retiring my passport at least... ;) (maybe) my next project will be restoring the '48 Willys CJ-2A my son is bringing me home for Christmas. ;) I had briefly considered dropping a Mercedes 4 cylinder in it... but that just wouldn't be right. ;) Instead I'll keep my eyes open for a Jeep Cherokee (XJ) and a Mercedes TD... someday... :) john On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->First thing to do is find a way to mount a three pointed star on the front. >-->;-) Maybe the grill from a Benz truck can be adapted. >--> >-->Somebody here should be able to tell you where on the motor to look for its >-->identifying number. That will tell us the precise verion you've got and may >-->even provide an indication of its age. Should be 12 or so digits starting >-->with 617. >--> >-->Sounds like you may give our retired list meister (not retired from working, >-->just retired from list master duties) a run for his money on odd >-->combinations of vehicle and engine. Good to have you aboard. The rest of us >-->love to hear about that stuff but seem to have managed to avoid the voices >-->telling us to give it a try. >--> >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 194K >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Brian Knowles >-->> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 7:15 PM >-->> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: [db] [Fwd: [Veg_Oil_Engines] Quick intro.] >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> New on the list since yesterday I thought I would introduce myself. I have >-->> been hanging around various bio diesel and alternative fuel lists >-->> and forums >-->> for quite some time. I have collected most of the stuff I need to >-->> be able to >-->> start experimenting with both approaches to doing my bit for a cleaner >-->> environment. In fact I do run my house furnace on wvo with a Kroll all oil >-->> burner and I have run my Citroen CX 2.5 diesel on both RME and briefly on >-->> hot filtered wvo too, though I chickened out with what I had because it is >-->> unfortunately pumped with the dreaded Lucas CAV. >-->> >-->> Anyway, my circumstances changed radically last week when I >-->> acquired a 1981 >-->> Chevy Nomad (van) with a 300D Mercedes engine and gear box >-->> conversion - how >-->> about that? I am well pleased :-) Well - is this a weird >-->> conversion or what? >-->> (In my experience it is on a par with an English 56 Coup de Ville with a >-->> Perkins 3 cyl marine diesel I saw at Santa Pod in the 80's , maybe I am >-->> wrong though and this is common practice). >-->> >-->> It is too soon to say what I have got hold of really but it is >-->> street legal, >-->> has passed its road worthiness test and trundles along just fine. >-->> It doesn't >-->> have the 'go' obviously that one usually associates with Chevy vans but it >-->> behaved nicely on the 700 km trip home from the sellers place and >-->> didn't get >-->> overtaken by any trucks at least, I kept it down to an average of 100 kmt >-->> but there is more there once I become confident of its reliability. Anyway >-->> 90% of my journeys are local or 'days out' and I am not in a hurry these >-->> days. Steeper hills were embarrassing though......... >-->> >-->> There is loads of cosmetic rust to be fixed, there are dents and >-->> scrapes all >-->> over, many electrical functions don't work, doors wont open, locks wont >-->> lock, the engine is filthy and it smells like something hid and died in >-->> there..... >-->> >-->> But it's good fun this, I have had Chevy vans and pick ups before >-->> and I like >-->> them very much, but no way could I drive a 350 or bb here >-->> (Sweden) with fuel >-->> prices where they are today. I have no idea what this hybrid consumes >-->> because the fuel indicator doesn't work and worse, it is almost impossible >-->> to fuel the thing. On the drive home I managed to dribble in some >-->> 20 litres >-->> - anything more than a dribble and the pump handle released. This >-->> is a pain >-->> and one of the first things I need to fix. The whole purpose of >-->> this though >-->> is to run on wvo and the big dino oilies can go stuff......... The >-->> conversion will be a 2 tank system with 230v overnight timed >-->> engine and tank >-->> heaters, coolant hih and heat exchanger from wvo tank, heated separator >-->> filter and a Pollack 6 way (or maybe 2 - 3 way)12 v motorised valves. Wvo >-->> looped, biod returned. The bit that panics me is the electrical >-->> do dahs but >-->> a bloke in the UK (Mike Panzeri) is trying to help me out with some weird >-->> and wonderful computer gubbins for the CX, if it works for that then the >-->> Merc engine would be a doddle....... >-->> >-->> So, now I have a Merc 300 D of unknown age and condition which I >-->> need to get >-->> up to speed on. >-->> >-->> I am hoping that there are list members here who can point me in the right >-->> direction - and I look forward to sharing my experiences and chatting with >-->> you all as this project develops, hopefully I can contribute a bit too ;-) >-->> >-->> Best wishes >-->> -Go. >-->> >-->> PS. Anyone got any suggestions on what to name this thing? >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> >-->> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page >-->> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/3GYolB/TM >-->> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >-->> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Veg_Oil_Engines/ >-->> >-->> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >-->> Veg_Oil_Engines-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >-->> >-->> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >-->> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:52:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] new directory on wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/Willys/ http://www.wagoneers.com/Willys/44-GPW/ http://www.wagoneers.com/Willys/48-CJ-2A/ got Willys? so the directory structure is (mostly): http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS/ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/ http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/ http://wagoneers.com/XJ/ http://wagoneers.com/Willys/ http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/ http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://wagoneers.com/WJ/ john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:38:54 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] WVO vs. true biodiesel That's fine... I have no plans to leave! That reminds me... I need to get the snow plow out and make sure the hydraulics are all working as expected! ;) Jim > On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: > >-->Ummmm... that would be me ;) > > been there done that... no plans on going back... ;) > > john > > >--> > >-->Jim > >--> > >-->> mixing it with dino diesel does work, and so does heating it to > >-->> > the proper viscosity and of course stopping/starting on dino oil. > >-->> > > >-->> OF course, what you meant to say was stopping/starting on BIOdiesel.... as > >-->> there is no real reason to run on dino diesel anymore (unless you're that > >-->> poor list member who lives somewhere that it gets to be -20 or whatever > >-->> awful tempertature he said. ick). > >-->> c > >-->> > >-->> -- > >-->> Proud owner of an 84 300d turbo running B100 > >-->> (if you don't know what this means, just ask!) - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2006 **********************************