From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 27 18:09:11 2005 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, December 28 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2059 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL [db] one last time... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL the machine shop can have the head magnafluxed and see if there are any cracks or fractures. if the head is ok and can be resurfaced within tolerance, the valve guides are within specs and so on, there shouldn't be any reason why the head couldn't be used again. the fact that you were leaking oil and not coolant is probably a good thing. had coolant gotten out of the engine, overheating might have resulted. if coolant had gotten inside the engine other problems would have resulted. if your wrench and the machine shop both agree the head is ok after rework it should be fine... do they have mercedes technical info/specs? lot of machine shops work on a "standard" set of specs... that may not apply to a benz... if they've done mercedes before they'll be ok, if not, ask questions on the specs they're working to. john On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, Dan Trusz wrote: > -->Hi All, > --> > -->I have been offline since June dealing with a head gasket problem on my > -->300SDL. When I purchased the car, the previous owner stated that the heads > -->were re-done and did had the top end done. I ran the car for about 10000 > -->miles (in about four months) then had some serious head gasket issues.... > -->(low compression.....the car never did overheat....just sprayed oil all over > -->the underside of the hood.) > --> > -->My mechanic who I do trust, says if the cylinder head was re-done, it wasn't > -->done right.... he showed me one broken value that needs to be replaced, it > -->broke because it was too tight. He called the previous valve-job and > -->everything else, "a hack job". > --> > -->My question for everyone, should I trust the heads that are on the car? My > -->mechanic says that they are okay and has them at the machine shop waiting to > -->be resurfaced/rebuilt.... > --> > -->What are some economical choices? > --> > -->What would you do? > --> > -->Thanks, > --> > -->-Dan- > -->http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:38:14 -0500 From: "Dan Trusz" Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Thanks John, I know my wrench is a long time Diesel & Gas Benz guy... He is protective of me and my car when it comes to min. tolerances. The machine shop I will have to check into, but my wrench wouldn't use just 'anyone'..... but that doesn't mean I can't do my homework.... The Magnaflux didn't show any cracks.... I do remember that.... I was just concerned that I am spending a fair amount to the machine shop and my wrench.... I just want a car that will last me another 1-2 years.....and is a diesel and is my sdl. :-) My wrench did say I was very lucky... even when the valve broke it only 'nicked' the piston.... I was a little concerned about this 'nick'... I saw it will my own eyes. It is barely noticeable.... but My wrench says nothing else happened (no bending of anything else). Should I be worried about this??? I am just concerned about this because with everything I would have spent $3000 which for all the new parts, I guess isn't too bad.... I just need a fair rate of return like 2 years or 40000 miles before the car dies on me...... - -Dan- '87 300SDL - Head -at- machine shop >From: john >To: Dan Trusz >CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL >Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:50 -0800 (PST) > >the machine shop can have the head magnafluxed and see if there are any >cracks or >fractures. if the head is ok and can be resurfaced within tolerance, the >valve guides >are within specs and so on, there shouldn't be any reason why the head >couldn't be used >again. the fact that you were leaking oil and not coolant is probably a >good thing. >had coolant gotten out of the engine, overheating might have resulted. if >coolant >had gotten inside the engine other problems would have resulted. > >if your wrench and the machine shop both agree the head is ok after rework >it should >be fine... do they have mercedes technical info/specs? lot of machine >shops work >on a "standard" set of specs... that may not apply to a benz... if >they've done >mercedes before they'll be ok, if not, ask questions on the specs they're >working to. > >john > > >On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, Dan Trusz wrote: > > > -->Hi All, > > --> > > -->I have been offline since June dealing with a head gasket problem on >my > > -->300SDL. When I purchased the car, the previous owner stated that >the heads > > -->were re-done and did had the top end done. I ran the car for about >10000 > > -->miles (in about four months) then had some serious head gasket >issues.... > > -->(low compression.....the car never did overheat....just sprayed oil >all over > > -->the underside of the hood.) > > --> > > -->My mechanic who I do trust, says if the cylinder head was re-done, it >wasn't > > -->done right.... he showed me one broken value that needs to be >replaced, it > > -->broke because it was too tight. He called the previous valve-job and > > -->everything else, "a hack job". > > --> > > -->My question for everyone, should I trust the heads that are on the >car? My > > -->mechanic says that they are okay and has them at the machine shop >waiting to > > -->be resurfaced/rebuilt.... > > --> > > -->What are some economical choices? > > --> > > -->What would you do? > > --> > > -->Thanks, > > --> > > -->-Dan- > > -->http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > --> > > --> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:16:32 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 12:39:13PM -0500, Dan Trusz wrote: > I have been offline since June dealing with a head gasket problem on my > 300SDL. When I purchased the car, the previous owner stated that the > heads were re-done and did had the top end done. I ran the car for about > 10000 miles (in about four months) then had some serious head gasket > issues.... (low compression.....the car never did overheat....just sprayed > oil all over the underside of the hood.) > > My mechanic who I do trust, says if the cylinder head was re-done, it > wasn't done right.... he showed me one broken value that needs to be > replaced, it broke because it was too tight. He called the previous > valve-job and everything else, "a hack job". If a valve was too tight, it was certainly done by whomever did the valve job. There isn't that adjustment while installing the head like there is on a 617. > My question for everyone, should I trust the heads that are on the car? As long as the head passes a pressure test, any damage to the head is repairable. The original 3.0L six cylinder heads are somewhat known for cracking. > My mechanic says that they are okay and has them at the machine shop > waiting to be resurfaced/rebuilt.... > > What are some economical choices? Rebuilding what you have is the cheapest. Labor to heliarc the head is cheap compared to buying another head. > What would you do? Provided the head doesn't have cracks that cause it to leak when warm, I'd probably fix its ailments, and slap it on. K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:25:42 -0600 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL Now that I see that it's an 87, I would argue that it is worth the repairs. Other than a few head issues, which you are already experiencing, that engine is not known for any particular troubles, unlike the later (92? 93?) model also designated 300SDL that used the 3.5 liter version of that engine. If you haven't dealt with them already, of course, there could be standard age and mileage expenses associated with suspension and climate control, leaving only cooling and transmission, which will often be fine if they've been reasonably well maintained. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 197K, with suspension and cooling addressed within the last 2 years Quoting Kevin : > On Tue, Dec 27, 2005 at 12:39:13PM -0500, Dan Trusz wrote: > > I have been offline since June dealing with a head gasket problem on my > > 300SDL. When I purchased the car, the previous owner stated that the > > heads were re-done and did had the top end done. I ran the car for > about > > 10000 miles (in about four months) then had some serious head gasket > > issues.... (low compression.....the car never did overheat....just > sprayed > > oil all over the underside of the hood.) > > > > My mechanic who I do trust, says if the cylinder head was re-done, it > > wasn't done right.... he showed me one broken value that needs to be > > replaced, it broke because it was too tight. He called the previous > > valve-job and everything else, "a hack job". > > If a valve was too tight, it was certainly done by whomever did the valve > job. There isn't that adjustment while installing the head like there is > on a 617. > > > My question for everyone, should I trust the heads that are on the car? > > > As long as the head passes a pressure test, any damage to the head is > repairable. The original 3.0L six cylinder heads are somewhat known for > cracking. > > > My mechanic says that they are okay and has them at the machine shop > > waiting to be resurfaced/rebuilt.... > > > > What are some economical choices? > > Rebuilding what you have is the cheapest. Labor to heliarc the head is > cheap compared to buying another head. > > > What would you do? > > Provided the head doesn't have cracks that cause it to leak when warm, > I'd probably fix its ailments, and slap it on. > > K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:54:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL my only concern would be the bearing on that cylinder... if it nicked the piston did it compress that bearing or wrist pin? If the piston is aluminum, which I believe it is, then it may have absorbed the energy and not affected the wrist pin or crank bearing... after it's put together listen carefully for any knocking sounds, if there are any, shut it off immediately and have the crank bearings redone. The crank itself is probably ok, but if he can, have him check the bearings on that crank... I may be concerned about nothing, but I've spun more than a couple of bearings after a rebuild and it's a major hassle... john On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, Dan Trusz wrote: > -->Thanks John, I know my wrench is a long time Diesel & Gas Benz guy... He > -->is protective of me and my car when it comes to min. tolerances. The > -->machine shop I will have to check into, but my wrench wouldn't use just > -->'anyone'..... but that doesn't mean I can't do my homework.... The > -->Magnaflux didn't show any cracks.... I do remember that.... > --> > -->I was just concerned that I am spending a fair amount to the machine shop > -->and my wrench.... I just want a car that will last me another 1-2 > -->years.....and is a diesel and is my sdl. :-) > --> > -->My wrench did say I was very lucky... even when the valve broke it only > -->'nicked' the piston.... I was a little concerned about this 'nick'... I saw > -->it will my own eyes. It is barely noticeable.... but My wrench says > -->nothing else happened (no bending of anything else). > --> > -->Should I be worried about this??? > --> > -->I am just concerned about this because with everything I would have spent > -->$3000 which for all the new parts, I guess isn't too bad.... I just need a > -->fair rate of return like 2 years or 40000 miles before the car dies on > -->me...... > --> > -->-Dan- > --> > -->'87 300SDL - Head -at- machine shop > --> > --> > --> > -->> From: john > -->> To: Dan Trusz > -->> CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > -->> Subject: Re: [db] Head question for 300SDL > -->> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:50 -0800 (PST) > -->> > -->> the machine shop can have the head magnafluxed and see if there are any > -->> cracks or > -->> fractures. if the head is ok and can be resurfaced within tolerance, > -->> the valve guides > -->> are within specs and so on, there shouldn't be any reason why the head > -->> couldn't be used > -->> again. the fact that you were leaking oil and not coolant is probably a > -->> good thing. > -->> had coolant gotten out of the engine, overheating might have resulted. > -->> if coolant > -->> had gotten inside the engine other problems would have resulted. > -->> > -->> if your wrench and the machine shop both agree the head is ok after > -->> rework it should > -->> be fine... do they have mercedes technical info/specs? lot of machine > -->> shops work > -->> on a "standard" set of specs... that may not apply to a benz... if > -->> they've done > -->> mercedes before they'll be ok, if not, ask questions on the specs > -->> they're working to. > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> > -->> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, Dan Trusz wrote: > -->> > -->> > --> Hi All, > -->> > --> > -->> > --> I have been offline since June dealing with a head gasket > -->> > --> problem on > -->> my > -->> > --> 300SDL. When I purchased the car, the previous owner > -->> > --> stated that > -->> the heads > -->> > --> were re-done and did had the top end done. I ran the car > -->> > --> for about > -->> 10000 > -->> > --> miles (in about four months) then had some serious head > -->> > --> gasket > -->> issues.... > -->> > --> (low compression.....the car never did overheat....just > -->> > --> sprayed oil > -->> all over > -->> > --> the underside of the hood.) > -->> > --> > -->> > --> My mechanic who I do trust, says if the cylinder head was > -->> > --> re-done, it > -->> wasn't > -->> > --> done right.... he showed me one broken value that needs > -->> > --> to be > -->> replaced, it > -->> > --> broke because it was too tight. He called the previous > -->> > --> valve-job and > -->> > --> everything else, "a hack job". > -->> > --> > -->> > --> My question for everyone, should I trust the heads that > -->> > --> are on the > -->> car? My > -->> > --> mechanic says that they are okay and has them at the > -->> > --> machine shop > -->> waiting to > -->> > --> be resurfaced/rebuilt.... > -->> > --> > -->> > --> What are some economical choices? > -->> > --> > -->> > --> What would you do? > -->> > --> > -->> > --> Thanks, > -->> > --> > -->> > --> -Dan- > -->> > --> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > -->_________________________________________________________________ > -->Don^Rt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > -->http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:07:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] one last time... drove Derick's '91 300D today to the grocery store... it is indeed the best car I've ever owned... but while I should be sad, I'm not... the '99 Grand Cherokee (WJ) I picked up just seems nicer to me... more practical for dealing with Jeep restoration projects, hauling my trailer, getting out of my driveway... :) Not only that the wife has decided that when my J10 is done we're selling her white '99 and keeping this one. That's a vote of confidence on my selection. :) I even got a second opinion about ride, etc... wife rode in both today, she confirms that the WJ is nicer than the 300D to her as well. The entire family is in agreement. I haven't done anything stupid, except of course for the fuel economy... which, thankfully, PTL, is not an issue at this point in time! The WJ is amazingly quick and smooth. The J10 should be pretty quick with the 6.2L and 4.10's, and economical... :) Looks like Derick is ready to take delivery of the 300D. My son and I will drive the Benz down... (even he agrees that the WJ is nicer.) We'll then continue on down to Centralia to bring Curtis his XJ rims and swap out the WJ seats. :) And check on the progress of SuperDawg. It's always worth the trip down there to sit in one of the FSJ's down there to remind me of "panascopic" vision. :) The '91 300D is clearly: 1) the BEST vehicle for fuel economy without question. 2) the BEST vehicle for durability and longevity 3) the BEST vehicle for minimum maintenance 4) the BEST vehicle to maintain it's value 5) the BEST engineered vehicle overall I'll miss shadowfax... beautiful, sleek, economical, reliable... superb. Take good care of him Derick... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2059 **********************************