From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 2 13:38:40 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, January 2 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2064 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] E300D Re: [db] 1995 E300D Re: [db] 1995 E300D Re: [db] 1995 E300D Re: [db] 1995 E300D Re: [db] 1995 E300D [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... [db] chuck - june 2006 Re: [db] 1995 E300D Re: [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... Re: [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... Re: [db] Sticky steering in '88 190D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:58:17 -0500 From: Paul Brown Subject: [db] E300D Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to suck oil out from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. Jon Filina wrote: >> >> >> What oil change intervals do you use with your Amsoil? How much of a >> pain in the posterior is it to get that belly pan off, or do you have to? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:32:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Paul Brown wrote: > -->Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to suck oil out > -->from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. that's just unnatural... :) you need to let anything on the bottom of the pan escape out the drain hole, if you've been running dino oil you're going to end up with sludge at the bottom... john > -->Jon Filina wrote: > -->> What oil change intervals do you use with your Amsoil? How much of a > -->> pain in the posterior is it to get that belly pan off, or do you have > -->> to? ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:23:17 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D Paul commented: > Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to suck oil > out from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. I knew I'd get caught! ;-) I've been using a Topsider to suck the oil out since I bought my 240D in '98. I used it with my 300SD until about two years ago when I started getting lazy and let my mechanic do the honors. The biggest problem I've had is getting rid of the old oil. It got to be a hassle having to put papers in the trunk, blocking in the Topsider so it wouldn't slide around and dumping it at my local gas station. Oil out of a gasser is no big problem, but used diesel oil can make a big mess in a hurry! After several years of use, my Topsider tends to leak from the pump. If I could find a good electric motor powered one, for a reasonable price, I might go back to doing my own oil changes. Until then, I'll go to Dennis' and let him do it. He doesn't think sucking the oil out of the dipstick is a good idea and really is not fond of the W124's, hence the question about the belly pan. See my next message to John.... Thanks for the virtual dope slap... ;-) Jon '95 E300D "Ernestine" '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:48:38 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D John proclaimed: >On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Paul Brown wrote: > > >>-->Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to suck oil out >>-->from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. >> >> > >that's just unnatural... :) you need to let anything on the bottom of >the pan escape out the drain hole, if you've been running dino oil you're >going to end up with sludge at the bottom... > > John, John, John, John, John.... You, of all people, should be more enlightened! After all, you are a big proponent of synthetic oils in general and Amsoil in specific. If you have gone to the trouble of researching the available engine oils, and arrived at your conclusion concerning synthetics, you should also have researched oil extraction techniques. MB has been sucking the oil out of the dipstick since the seventies when you were wearing your plaid leasure suits... ;-) Several years ago I watched the local MB dealer doing an oil change. The MB I was looking at, a W124, was warmed up to operating temperature and an oil extraction unit was hooked up to the dipstick tube. The unit looked like a giant shop vac, or R2D2 on steroids, depending on your point of view. In operation it jumped around and put on a good show. Did it get all the oil out? How about the sludge? When I switched to using the Topsider on my 240D, I'd warm the engine up to about 75 degrees C. and start to extract the oil. With the oil warm, the particulate matter (sludge) was supposedly suspended and flowed into the can. I don't remember how many quarts of oil I usually put back in when I drained the oil from the drain plug, but lets say it was 6. With the Topsider, I had to put in about 6 1/2 quarts to bring the oil on the dipstick to the same level. So, what conclusion can you draw from that? Using either method, "sludge" is suspended and leaves the engine. The Topsider sucked out more oil than was drained from the drain plug. So, any remaining sludge on the bottom of the pan would be greater if you pulled the drain plug.... John, John, John, John, John.... ;-) Jon '95 E300D "Ernestine" '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Jon Filina wrote: > -->John proclaimed: > --> > -->> On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Paul Brown wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to > -->> > --> suck oil out > -->> > --> from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > -->> that's just unnatural... :) you need to let anything on the bottom of > -->> the pan escape out the drain hole, if you've been running dino oil > -->> you're > -->> going to end up with sludge at the bottom... > -->> > -->> > --> > -->John, John, John, John, John.... > --> > -->You, of all people, should be more enlightened! After all, you are a big > -->proponent of synthetic oils in general and Amsoil in specific. If you have > -->gone to the trouble of researching the available engine oils, and arrived at > -->your conclusion concerning synthetics, you should also have researched oil > -->extraction techniques. > --> > -->MB has been sucking the oil out of the dipstick since the seventies when you > -->were wearing your plaid leasure suits... ;-) Several years ago I watched it was NOT plaid... oh wait, I did have a plaid suit... and hush puppies with big heels... and a full head of hair before joining the army in '74. ;) > -->the local MB dealer doing an oil change. The MB I was looking at, a W124, > -->was warmed up to operating temperature and an oil extraction unit was hooked > -->up to the dipstick tube. The unit looked like a giant shop vac, or R2D2 on > -->steroids, depending on your point of view. In operation it jumped around > -->and put on a good show. Did it get all the oil out? How about the sludge? don't know, drop the pan and check... if an engine is properly maintained and NOT run on valvoline, pennzoil or quakerstate, allowed to warm up completely and all vents and such working properly there should never be sludge... so if you fed it amsoil or mobil one or kendall and changed it regularly, kept the engine in tune, well then yes, no sludge should happen... > -->When I switched to using the Topsider on my 240D, I'd warm the engine up to > -->about 75 degrees C. and start to extract the oil. With the oil warm, the > -->particulate matter (sludge) was supposedly suspended and flowed into the > -->can. I don't remember how many quarts of oil I usually put back in when I > -->drained the oil from the drain plug, but lets say it was 6. With the > -->Topsider, I had to put in about 6 1/2 quarts to bring the oil on the > -->dipstick to the same level. > --> > -->So, what conclusion can you draw from that? Using either method, "sludge" > -->is suspended and leaves the engine. The Topsider sucked out more oil than > -->was drained from the drain plug. So, any remaining sludge on the bottom of > -->the pan would be greater if you pulled the drain plug.... In my earlier, more anally retentive years, I'd pour a quart of ATF through the engine with the drain plug off... and I'd even go so far as to crank the engine one revolution to free up all the stuck oil... ;) I know, I was out of control... some think I still am. ;) hey, need to go out and put some muddy mercedes parts out in the rain to get cleaned up to sell... ttyl, john > --> > -->John, John, John, John, John.... > --> > -->;-) > --> > -->Jon > -->'95 E300D "Ernestine" > -->'84 300SD "Bruno" > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:07:00 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D every mechanic I've ever talked to dislikes the idea of drawing the oil out of the dipstick tube... you simply can not get all the oil or crud out. the belly pan on the 124 isn't bad at all... I suspect that the original fasteners on Shadowfax were replaced with phillips screws. If you run amsoil you don't have to get under there very often. :) On my jeeps I plan on running 25,000 miles on an oil change... with filter changes of course. On my 6.2L Diesel I'll go 15,000 miles. Oil analysis costs about $20 a sample, it's probably better just to change the oil and filters, less hassle... of course the oil is not inexpensive either... tough call... ...of course how often do I keep a vehicle long enough to worry about it? ;) I get everything fixed, then I start worrying about what might break next and decide to sell it for one with known problems... ;) I guess I hate surprises... ;) john On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, Jon Filina wrote: > -->Paul commented: > --> > -->> Why do you want to take the belly pan off? You're 'posed to suck oil > -->> out from the top, and not let it drain from the bottom. > --> > --> > -->I knew I'd get caught! ;-) > --> > -->I've been using a Topsider to suck the oil out since I bought my 240D in > -->'98. I used it with my 300SD until about two years ago when I started > -->getting lazy and let my mechanic do the honors. > --> > -->The biggest problem I've had is getting rid of the old oil. It got to be a > -->hassle having to put papers in the trunk, blocking in the Topsider so it > -->wouldn't slide around and dumping it at my local gas station. Oil out of a > -->gasser is no big problem, but used diesel oil can make a big mess in a > -->hurry! > --> > -->After several years of use, my Topsider tends to leak from the pump. If I > -->could find a good electric motor powered one, for a reasonable price, I > -->might go back to doing my own oil changes. Until then, I'll go to Dennis' > -->and let him do it. He doesn't think sucking the oil out of the dipstick is > -->a good idea and really is not fond of the W124's, hence the question about > -->the belly pan. See my next message to John.... > --> > -->Thanks for the virtual dope slap... ;-) > --> > -->Jon > -->'95 E300D "Ernestine" > -->'84 300SD "Bruno" > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:23:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... chuck, I don't recall seeing this in the pictures of your Jag before... :) did they add her in??? http://www.webbervision.com/kzok-calendar-2006/ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:23:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] chuck - june 2006 http://www.webbervision.com/kzok-calendar-2006/#Anchor-23240 ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:13:21 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] 1995 E300D John admitted: >>-->John, John, John, John, John.... >> >>-->MB has been sucking the oil out of the dipstick since the seventies when you >>-->were wearing your plaid leasure suits... ;-) >> > >it was NOT plaid... oh wait, I did have a plaid suit... and hush puppies with >big heels... and a full head of hair before joining the army in '74. ;) > > I KNEW it!! You look like an ex disco king... ;-) In my case, I went to Marine Corps boot camp (Parris Island) in '66. By the time the leasure suit/disco fad came to be I was already bald... I will admit to owning a few leasure suits, but my hush puppies never had big heels. Also, I would wear the leisure suit around the house while I was puttering around. They were like my old flight suits which I'd lived in for a few years while I was in the Corps. However, I'd change before I left the house... I had my standards, such as they were! Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:17:54 -0800 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... >chuck, > >I don't recall seeing this in the pictures of your Jag before... :) > did they add her in??? > >http://www.webbervision.com/kzok-calendar-2006/ No... but the photog gave me the a few of the pics without her in them. Henry and his assistant spent two hours lighting the car *just* right. Then the AD and model arrived and messed up the shot. ;) BTW: If you would like one (a calendar) I have a bunch, just let me know. - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] chuck, the Jag pictures... On Mon, 2 Jan 2006, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->> chuck, > -->> > -->> I don't recall seeing this in the pictures of your Jag before... :) > -->> did they add her in??? > -->> > -->> http://www.webbervision.com/kzok-calendar-2006/ > --> > -->No... but the photog gave me the a few of the pics without her in them. > -->Henry and his assistant spent two hours lighting the car *just* right. Then > -->the AD and model arrived and messed up the shot. ;) > --> > -->BTW: If you would like one (a calendar) I have a bunch, just let me know. would love one... (signed of course... ;) john > --> > -->-- > -->--chuck goolsbee > -->02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) > -->arlington, wa, usa > --> > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:20:31 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Sticky steering in '88 190D Yup, it was a ball joint/clamp that was causing it... it let go on Christmas Eve as herself was departing for a 3 hour journey to see family. Luckily she was driving less than 10mph and it was only a few hundred yards from our house on a quiet road. She was a little shaken, but safe. I arranged a flatbed to bring the car home and have removed the spring today. Are the ball joints/ clamps replacable or does the whole lower arm have to be replaced? Oh.. and .. the alignment/lower wishbone bolts ... do I hammer them out after removing the nuts? They are fairly tight in there.. Cheers Steve On 12/22/05, john-at-wagoneers.com wrote: > whatever I have is on the server... can't remember what's there... :) > > john > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Stephen Rigley > > I got herself to wiggle the steering wheel while I was under the > > bonnet, think I've localised it to the tie rod on the drivers side > > (RHD car)... which incidently is quite close to the header... and it's > > not being fed oil onto it since the vacuum pump was fixed .. ;-) > > BTW... is it me or do all 190D cars seem a little too noisy? Is there > > supposed to be a cover over the header? ;-) Actually... any pics of > > that side of the engine on your site John? > > > > Steve > > > > On 12/22/05, john wrote: > > > > > > could be a tie rod or other related components, no > > > expert on benz steering/suspension, but I've had an idler > > > arm go out on american iron that did that... it does > > > indeed sound like a joint that has either gone dry or failed. > > > > > > this should be easy to determine... jack up the front end > > > of the car, unlock the steering wheel and manually wiggle > > > all the connections and such... > > > > > > you might get lucky with lube... > > > > > > john > > > > > > On Thu, 22 Dec 2005, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > > > > > >-->Hi folks, > > > >--> > > > >-->Have a quick query for you... > > > >-->I took the Panzerwagon out for a spin last night and the steering > > > >-->feels very sticky/heavy. I noticed that when cornering, the steering > > > >-->wheel doesn't centre up again after the turn and I have to pull it > > > >-->back into line. Also, when stopped, if I move the wheel an inch or two > > > >-->left or right, it's accompanied by a "dry joint" vibration/noise. I > > > >-->assume it's the steering linkages that need greasing/oiling (?), but > > > >-->why would they have stiffened up almost over night? > > > >--> > > > >-->Cheers > > > >-->Steve > > > >--> > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2064 **********************************