From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 30 14:53:36 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, January 30 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2085 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] left unsupervised... RE: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] left unsupervised... RE: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] left unsupervised... RE: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] Saturday in Snohomish Re: [db] Saturday in Snohomish Re: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] left unsupervised... Re: [db] left unsupervised... RE: [db] left unsupervised... RE: [db] left unsupervised... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:11:42 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 09:27:35PM -0800, john wrote: > but I did find one car that will entice both derick and kevin, maybe, > > an '84 190D with a 5 speed for $1,700. > http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/129563388.html Yeah, certainly. I personally think Derick should jump on it, so I am not forced to drive another 190D back from washington. Derick knows how much he misses the one I have, and that one likely has far less rust. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:32:59 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] left unsupervised... Nah it was gone when I called this morning. :) Think I am going to get a K2500 pickup with an extended cab and lose my project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy and utility trailer. With all the construction I have to do here and the towing jobs it only makes sense to do this. The XJ will go to one of my daughters. The 77 Chevy will go on EBAY for a $1 and high bidder takes it. The trailer, probably ask about $100 for it. It is a 4x8 harbor freight folding style 1000# with PTL plywood. 3/4 on the deck and 5/8 forming the removable box. - --------------------------------- If true knowledge is knowing, you know nothing. I am a genius.... Derick Amburgey Blog: amburgey.us 360-440-7740 Cell - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:12 PM To: john Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 09:27:35PM -0800, john wrote: > but I did find one car that will entice both derick and kevin, maybe, > > an '84 190D with a 5 speed for $1,700. > http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/129563388.html Yeah, certainly. I personally think Derick should jump on it, so I am not forced to drive another 190D back from washington. Derick knows how much he misses the one I have, and that one likely has far less rust. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:39:56 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:32:59PM -0800, Derick wrote: > Nah it was gone when I called this morning. :) I figured it wasn't going to last long at that price. I don't need another car to sort out right now, as it is the project pad is overflowing onto the street. > Think I am going to get a K2500 pickup with an extended cab and lose my > project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy > and utility trailer. Be careful. The TBI 350 is *NOT* a powerhouse (a friend had one in a one ton dually flatbed he bought from a state auction and the NA 6.2 in the K30 I have was WAY faster), and about the only year of 6.5 you really want is a 93, otherwise you're dealing with electronic injector pumps that are ungodly expensive to replace, and electronics under the hood that seem like they were designed to make the IP fail. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Derick wrote: >-->Nah it was gone when I called this morning. :) rofl... did I call that right or what? :) first kevin, then derick... we're birds of a feather... cuckcoos... :) >-->Think I am going to get a K2500 pickup with an extended cab and lose my is it a Diesel??? ;) >-->project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy >-->and utility trailer. didn't see the trailer, but don't need it either. :) john >--> >-->With all the construction I have to do here and the towing jobs it only >-->makes sense to do this. The XJ will go to one of my daughters. >-->The 77 Chevy will go on EBAY for a $1 and high bidder takes it. >-->The trailer, probably ask about $100 for it. It is a 4x8 harbor freight >-->folding style 1000# with PTL plywood. 3/4 on the deck and 5/8 forming the >-->removable box. >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->--------------------------------- >-->If true knowledge is knowing, you know nothing. I am a genius.... >-->Derick Amburgey >-->Blog: amburgey.us >-->360-440-7740 Cell >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On >-->Behalf Of Kevin >-->Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:12 PM >-->To: john >-->Cc: diesel-benz list >-->Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... >--> >-->On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 09:27:35PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> but I did find one car that will entice both derick and kevin, maybe, >-->> >-->> an '84 190D with a 5 speed for $1,700. >-->> http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/129563388.html >--> >-->Yeah, certainly. I personally think Derick should jump on it, so I am not >-->forced to drive another 190D back from washington. Derick knows how much >-->he misses the one I have, and that one likely has far less rust. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:10:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... you can use the 6.2 IP in a 6.5. looked into that already... john On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:32:59PM -0800, Derick wrote: >-->> Nah it was gone when I called this morning. :) >--> >-->I figured it wasn't going to last long at that price. I don't need another >-->car to sort out right now, as it is the project pad is overflowing onto the >-->street. >--> >-->> Think I am going to get a K2500 pickup with an extended cab and lose my >-->> project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy >-->> and utility trailer. >--> >-->Be careful. The TBI 350 is *NOT* a powerhouse (a friend had one in a one ton >-->dually flatbed he bought from a state auction and the NA 6.2 in the K30 I >-->have was WAY faster), and about the only year of 6.5 you really want is a 93, >-->otherwise you're dealing with electronic injector pumps that are ungodly >-->expensive to replace, and electronics under the hood that seem like they were >-->designed to make the IP fail. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:50:12 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 02:09:06PM -0800, john wrote: > >-->project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy > >-->and utility trailer. > > didn't see the trailer, but don't need it either. :) Sure you do. It's GVW is about the same as the empty weight of that dump trailer curtis built. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:51:20 -0800 From: "Derick" Subject: RE: [db] left unsupervised... Kevin, Are you talking gas or diesel? I am new to modern pickups. The one I am considering is 1993 k2500 Silverado with a 350 gas engine. Is this the poison pill of which you speak? Let me know if it is I would hate to find out after the fact. - --------------------------------- If true knowledge is knowing, you know nothing. I am a genius.... Derick Amburgey Blog: amburgey.us 360-440-7740 Cell - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin [mailto:kevin-at-mordred.punk.net] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:40 PM To: Derick Cc: 'john'; 'diesel-benz list' Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:32:59PM -0800, Derick wrote: > Nah it was gone when I called this morning. :) I figured it wasn't going to last long at that price. I don't need another car to sort out right now, as it is the project pad is overflowing onto the street. > Think I am going to get a K2500 pickup with an extended cab and lose my > project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy > and utility trailer. Be careful. The TBI 350 is *NOT* a powerhouse (a friend had one in a one ton dually flatbed he bought from a state auction and the NA 6.2 in the K30 I have was WAY faster), and about the only year of 6.5 you really want is a 93, otherwise you're dealing with electronic injector pumps that are ungodly expensive to replace, and electronics under the hood that seem like they were designed to make the IP fail. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:55:28 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Saturday in Snohomish On Sat, Jan 28, 2006 at 11:48:19PM -0800, john wrote: > spent all day working on the fleet... > > prepped the white '99 WJ for sale, cleaned everything out of it. > set up the silver '99 WJ for my wife. > put my tools back in the '91 300D. > next in line is to part the '87 xj (will need help to pull the engine/axles) Didn't touch the fleet this weekend. Hopped in the crown victoria, and headed down south to reprogram the motorola syntor in the trunk. 7 hours later and it mostly works. I never thought I would be so happy to find a working 386 SX-25 with a turbo button that I could turn OFF. In case anyone's wondering, do *NOT* get out of a 78 300D then take a retired police cruiser for a trip. The unintentional holeshots at every stopsign confused the ABS/traction control computer :) > got the starter back in the CJ-2A, turned out it was bad cables, replaced > them and it started right up... moved it back into it's shed so I could > work on the other rigs... having some challenges with the windshield... :) Similar to the starter problem on my 74 cherokee. Turns out the starter doesn't ground well if the bolts back out and oil gets on the mating surfaces. Stupid jeeps... K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:19:48 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Saturday in Snohomish On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Sat, Jan 28, 2006 at 11:48:19PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> spent all day working on the fleet... >-->In case anyone's wondering, do *NOT* get out of a 78 300D then take a retired >-->police cruiser for a trip. The unintentional holeshots at every stopsign >-->confused the ABS/traction control computer :) it's not quite as bad going from a 4.7L V8 in a WJ to a 2.5L TD in a 124... :) >-->> got the starter back in the CJ-2A, turned out it was bad cables, replaced >-->> them and it started right up... moved it back into it's shed so I could >-->> work on the other rigs... having some challenges with the windshield... :) >--> >-->Similar to the starter problem on my 74 cherokee. Turns out the starter >-->doesn't ground well if the bolts back out and oil gets on the mating surfaces. >-->Stupid jeeps... >-->K these cables have been around for awhile in the desert... you should see the heater hoses... they are as hard as steel... not sure if I'll need to use a sawzall or a hammer and chiesel to get them off... :) I doubt they'll burst from heat though, not a chance that they could swell. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 02:09:06PM -0800, john wrote: >-->> >-->project truck that I have no time for. This would replace the XJ, 77 Chevy >-->> >-->and utility trailer. >-->> didn't see the trailer, but don't need it either. :) >--> >-->Sure you do. It's GVW is about the same as the empty weight of that dump >-->trailer curtis built. >-->K you know, I could tow that behind shadowfax if I could find a hitch... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:00:40 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:51:20PM -0800, Derick wrote: > Are you talking gas or diesel? I am new to modern pickups. The one I am > considering is 1993 k2500 Silverado with a 350 gas engine. Is this the > poison pill of which you speak? > > Let me know if it is I would hate to find out after the fact. Well, on the test drive, floor it. I don't remember when they switched away from the TBI nonsense. If you get the feeling that you've driven faster trucks with points and a carb, it's probably TBI :) The flatbed was an 88. Put a car on a trailer behind it, and you had an instant 240D. We won't talk about hills. The diesel 6.5 turbo is the one with the killer injection pump. Ask Scott. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:04:49 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 02:20:24PM -0800, john wrote: > >-->> didn't see the trailer, but don't need it either. :) > >--> > >-->Sure you do. It's GVW is about the same as the empty weight of that dump > >-->trailer curtis built. > >-->K > > you know, I could tow that behind shadowfax if I could find a hitch... :) Not to encourage you, but they make them, though they are class 2 receivers or class 1 permanent mounts. Quick glance shows one for $160: http://www.etrailer.com/products.asp?model=300E&category=hitch&year=1991&make=Mercedes-Benz&t1=&h=e but if you do some hunting, you can probably find others. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:17:26 -0700 From: Subject: RE: [db] left unsupervised... Kevin speaks the truth. Since I was avoiding the $1200 for a new IP, it ended up burning out the transmission...which ended up costing $3500 (had a shop do it). Then, I burned out the new transmission...got it replaced under warranty, and then they finally diagnosed that it was the IP. Spend another bunch of money to have them replace that (it was in SF, I was in SAC, and I didn't have the time to do it myself). Now, my 96 Suburban K2500 with the 6.5 TurboDiesel runs like new. It's AWESOME....but it sure cost a lot to get there. And I only get 14-15 mpg around town...about half of the 190D. I can get 16 or 17 on the freeway, still half of the 190D. But, the family and luggage are pretty cramped in the 190D...so the suburban still wins on family trips. Symptoms to watch for if the IP is bad: - When you let up on the accelerator, it drops down to idle RPM - When you put the foot back into the accelerator, it jerks back up to xxxx RPM (to match your speed). - In cruise control, going downhill, it's very jerky...(Power on, power off, power on, power off). - It's like the accelerator pedal doesn't have any variable control...either on or off. This is how it drove when I got it, so I assumed it was just a weird quirk of these 6.5L engines. After putting a few thousand miles on it, it started to slip out of overdrive and rev up to 3rd gear RPM at freeway speed....like it couldn't hold the OverDrive gear. Turns out, it was slipping away the clutch inside and trashing the transmission. Something about the fuel delivery signals going to the computer from the IP giving bad info to the transmission. If you buy an old 6.5L, I would almost just replace the IP proactively if it has any drivability issues (hindsight is 20/20). Cheers, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:01 PM To: Derick Cc: 'john'; 'diesel-benz list' Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:51:20PM -0800, Derick wrote: > Are you talking gas or diesel? I am new to modern pickups. The one I am > considering is 1993 k2500 Silverado with a 350 gas engine. Is this the > poison pill of which you speak? > > Let me know if it is I would hate to find out after the fact. Well, on the test drive, floor it. I don't remember when they switched away from the TBI nonsense. If you get the feeling that you've driven faster trucks with points and a carb, it's probably TBI :) The flatbed was an 88. Put a car on a trailer behind it, and you had an instant 240D. We won't talk about hills. The diesel 6.5 turbo is the one with the killer injection pump. Ask Scott. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:32:36 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: RE: [db] left unsupervised... My Ford 7.3l IDI is exhibiting those same symptoms. I know the IP is going. I need to get time to swap with a new/rebuilt. Jim Kevin speaks the truth. Since I was avoiding the $1200 for a new IP, it ended > up burning out the transmission...which ended up costing $3500 (had a shop do > it). Then, I burned out the new transmission...got it replaced under > warranty, and then they finally diagnosed that it was the IP. Spend another > bunch of money to have them replace that (it was in SF, I was in SAC, and I > didn't have the time to do it myself). > > Now, my 96 Suburban K2500 with the 6.5 TurboDiesel runs like new. It's > AWESOME....but it sure cost a lot to get there. And I only get 14-15 mpg > around town...about half of the 190D. I can get 16 or 17 on the freeway, > still half of the 190D. But, the family and luggage are pretty cramped in the > 190D...so the suburban still wins on family trips. > > Symptoms to watch for if the IP is bad: > - When you let up on the accelerator, it drops down to idle RPM > - When you put the foot back into the accelerator, it jerks back up to xxxx > RPM (to match your speed). > - In cruise control, going downhill, it's very jerky...(Power on, power off, > power on, power off). > - It's like the accelerator pedal doesn't have any variable control...either > on or off. > > This is how it drove when I got it, so I assumed it was just a weird quirk of > these 6.5L engines. After putting a few thousand miles on it, it started to > slip out of overdrive and rev up to 3rd gear RPM at freeway speed....like it > couldn't hold the OverDrive gear. Turns out, it was slipping away the clutch > inside and trashing the transmission. Something about the fuel delivery > signals going to the computer from the IP giving bad info to the > transmission. > > If you buy an old 6.5L, I would almost just replace the IP proactively if it > has any drivability issues (hindsight is 20/20). > > Cheers, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > Behalf Of Kevin > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:01 PM > To: Derick > Cc: 'john'; 'diesel-benz list' > Subject: Re: [db] left unsupervised... > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 01:51:20PM -0800, Derick wrote: > > Are you talking gas or diesel? I am new to modern pickups. The one I am > > considering is 1993 k2500 Silverado with a 350 gas engine. Is this the > > poison pill of which you speak? > > > > Let me know if it is I would hate to find out after the fact. > > Well, on the test drive, floor it. I don't remember when they switched away > from the TBI nonsense. If you get the feeling that you've driven faster > trucks > with points and a carb, it's probably TBI :) > > The flatbed was an 88. Put a car on a trailer behind it, and you had an > instant 240D. We won't talk about hills. > > The diesel 6.5 turbo is the one with the killer injection pump. Ask Scott. > > K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2085 **********************************