From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 8 17:31:15 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, February 9 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2096 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 [db] Re: [bmw] administrivia: mostly for AOL and Yahoo users [db] 84 300d vacuum question Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Re: [db] 84 300d vacuum question Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 toyota's going Diesel... always thought that the rav4 was a decent little compact... with a Diesel it'll be even nicer... john On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, wmpless wrote: >--> Fahrzeugschein >--> >--> Hersteller: >--> Toyota >--> >--> Typ: >--> RAV- 4 >--> >--> Karosserie: >--> Geldndewagen >--> >--> Motor: >--> Vierzylinder- Turbodiesel >--> >--> Hubraum: >--> 2.231 ccm >--> >--> Leistung: >--> 130 kW >--> >--> >--> 177 PS >--> >--> Drehmoment: >--> 400 Nm >--> >--> Von 0 auf 100: >--> 9,3 s >--> >--> Hvchstgeschw.: >--> 200 km/h >--> >--> Verbrauch (ECE): >--> 7,0 Liter >--> >--> Kraftstoff: >--> Diesel >--> >--> Kofferraum: >--> 450 Liter >--> >--> umgebaut: >--> 1.752 Liter >--> >--> Versicherung: >--> 19 (HP) >--> >--> >--> 20 (TK) >--> >--> >--> 24 (VK) >--> >--> Preis: >--> 27.300 EUR >--> >-->Hi, >-->read that above mentioned vehicle will be offered in Europe with foll. opt. >-->engine: >--> >-->4 cyl. turbo diesel, 2.231 ccm, 177 hp, torque 400 nm, >-->from 0 -100 9.3 s, top speed 200 k/h, >-->fuel consumption: 7.0L per 100k - 26.5 m/US gal >-->--------- >-->will beat quite a few MB diesels >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 18:49:42 -0500 From: "Richard P. Welty" Subject: [db] Re: [bmw] administrivia: mostly for AOL and Yahoo users On Feb 7, 2006, at 11:15 AM, TDWYATT-at-aol.com wrote: > Will it make any difference if those of us using AOL as a ISP utilize > Internet Exlorer's mail rather than using AOL's proprietary email > service? I have > been thinking of changeing from AOL anyway because out where I > live (not even > DSL is available once you get far enought away from civilization), > the only > real option with any speed is satellite... i'm following up in this manner to all the lists because i've since learned useful things about this initiative, at least how AOL is doing it. the short version is that this should represent no net change in how the lists look to AOL users, at least for now. further discussion should be in private email or on the offtopic list. richard - -- Richard P. Welty rwelty-at-averillpark.net 518-269-8232 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:59:54 -0800 From: Charles Redell Subject: [db] 84 300d vacuum question Hi All, I've been a lurker on this list since i bought my 84 300 dturbo diesel this Spring. It's an awesome car that my diesel mechanic looked over and told me "you got a screaming deal" when he heard what i paid for it... It being an 84 and coming from a home that didn't love it as it should though, there are some issues... and being less than rich (and interested), I am trying to learn/work on some of those issues. At the top of the list is a vacuum problem that causes the car not to shut off when I take the key out. This only happens when I drive the car for a bit, then shut it off for a few minutes (tp to about 30) and then drive it again. When I do that, after driving for 10-15 minutes, the brakes get hard and the car continues to idle for up to a minute after I take the key out. Ok. So. I got the vacuum system troubleshooting and repair book from Mercedessource.com and followed their perscriptions. When I tested the vacuum pump pressure, I got a low reading so checked the power brake booster by disconnecting that line and plugging it with my thumb. The pressure guage jumped right up and I though "ah-ha! the problem is with a leak in the brake booster." However, when I reattched the line to the booster, the pressure stayed right where it should be, numerous times. So I ran the car for a few minutes, let it sit for a few minutes and checked to see if the booster was holding a vacuum by slowly releasing the line again and sure enough, it was holding the vacuum just fine. Hmmm.... So then I got a hand vacuum pump and connected it to ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 02:37:11 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass J.B. elaborated further: > The EGR valve has a 2 hole flange that bolts to the exhaust manifold > via 2 Allen cap screws. There is a metallic crush gasket that seals > it. I bought 2 new crush gaskets and copied the shape, minus the > center hole, in 0.130" aluminum. I unbolted the EGR valve, removed > the old gasket, and installed the plate with a new gasket on either > side. I hope this helps. If you're still confused, order a > replacement gasket from Rusty and it should be obvious how you'd want > to make the plate. OK, I'm with ya here. What does this accomplish that a BB in the line doesn't. Your method does look to be the better way of bypassing the EGR, but is there a reason to do it that way rather than the down and dirty BB one? On a side note, have you had any problems with the pop-up function on your sunroof? Dennis cautioned me about using it saying that, if the pop-up fails, the only option is to have the dealer fix it at quite a bit of cost. I really like it. But, if the feature is failure prone, I'll stay with sliding the roof open. It seems to me that popping the sunroof up would be far less troublesome that sliding it back. Am I wrong here? Thanks for explaining your EGR bypass procedure. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 03:00:20 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass Randy asked: >I put the ball bearing into the rubber hose on a 1977 Mercury on the advice >of a mechanic. The car then ran like garbage and pinged like crazy. I had to >remove the ball bearing in order to make it run properly again. I will admit >that I did nothing else in an effort to compensate - like altering the >timing etc. Is it likely to have any noticible effect on a diesel? > > Diesels are an entirely different beast when compared to gassers. Gas engines do create soot but it's much smaller than that of a diesel. Bypassing the EGR in your old Mercury problem caused a sensor to go bonkers. My '84 300SD has a BB in the EGR hose and runs just fine, or did before my daughter caused the steering wheel lock to permanently engage. I don't know how it ran before, but it will lay rubber on demand in it's recent state. To answer your question, bypassing the EGR on a diesel will not be noticeable and will enable the engine to perform as expected for far more miles than you'll probably keep the car. That is, unless you plan on driving it more than 500,000 miles.... Jon '95 E300D "Ernestine" 177,777 mi. '84 300SD "Bruno" 230,000 mi. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 03:15:22 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] 84 300d vacuum question Charles asked: >At the top of the list is a vacuum problem that causes the car not to >shut off when I take the key out. This only happens when I drive the >car for a bit, then shut it off for a few minutes (tp to about 30) and >then drive it again. > You faded out on your message but a few thoughts come to mind. Check the vacuum pump. Your '84 is a W123, isn't it. If so, you may have noticed that the doors don't lock within a few seconds of turning the key in the driver's door. If so, swap out the vacuum pump. If the doors, and the climate controls work ok, I'd suspect the shutoff switch on the injection pump. I'd put my money in the vacuum pump, providing there are no leaks in the system. If the transmission is shifting erratically, the pump is the culprit. I may have missed something here, though. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:42:20 +0000 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 hasn't there been a diesel out for a while now? Same with the Landcruiser? Check out http://www.toyota.ie/ Steve On 2/7/06, john wrote: > toyota's going Diesel... always thought that the > rav4 was a decent little compact... with a Diesel it'll be > even nicer... > > john > > On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, wmpless wrote: > > >--> Fahrzeugschein > >--> > >--> Hersteller: > >--> Toyota > >--> > >--> Typ: > >--> RAV- 4 > >--> > >--> Karosserie: > >--> Geldndewagen > >--> > >--> Motor: > >--> Vierzylinder- Turbodiesel > >--> > >--> Hubraum: > >--> 2.231 ccm > >--> > >--> Leistung: > >--> 130 kW > >--> > >--> > >--> 177 PS > >--> > >--> Drehmoment: > >--> 400 Nm > >--> > >--> Von 0 auf 100: > >--> 9,3 s > >--> > >--> Hvchstgeschw.: > >--> 200 km/h > >--> > >--> Verbrauch (ECE): > >--> 7,0 Liter > >--> > >--> Kraftstoff: > >--> Diesel > >--> > >--> Kofferraum: > >--> 450 Liter > >--> > >--> umgebaut: > >--> 1.752 Liter > >--> > >--> Versicherung: > >--> 19 (HP) > >--> > >--> > >--> 20 (TK) > >--> > >--> > >--> 24 (VK) > >--> > >--> Preis: > >--> 27.300 EUR > >--> > >-->Hi, > >-->read that above mentioned vehicle will be offered in Europe with foll. opt. > >-->engine: > >--> > >-->4 cyl. turbo diesel, 2.231 ccm, 177 hp, torque 400 nm, > >-->from 0 -100 9.3 s, top speed 200 k/h, > >-->fuel consumption: 7.0L per 100k - 26.5 m/US gal > >-->--------- > >-->will beat quite a few MB diesels > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:55:05 -0300 From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" Subject: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 On Wednesday 08 February 2006 08:42, my mailbox was graced by a missive from Stephen Rigley Stephen Rigley who wrote:: >hasn't there been a diesel out for a while now? Same with the Landcruiser? >Check out http://www.toyota.ie/ All those on the streets here are diesels. Cheers, Ron, on the banks of teh Paraguay River. - -- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. -- Harrison -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:27:45 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass As mentioned in a previous email, the BB will prevent the EGR valve from opening, but it cannot cause an EGR valve with a bad spring to close properly. My car has over 200k on it, and I know that the spring has weakened and the EGR valve does not close completely anymore. Some soot will inevitably sneak past, and that's what I'm trying to prevent. The plate is a sure-fire way to guarantee a soot-free intake. I use the pop-up function almost every day 10 months out of the year with no problem. I make sure to keep the whole assembly properly lubricated (at least once a year, usually twice). J.B. At 03:37 AM 2/8/2006, you wrote: >J.B. elaborated further: > >>The EGR valve has a 2 hole flange that bolts to the exhaust >>manifold via 2 Allen cap screws. There is a metallic crush gasket >>that seals it. I bought 2 new crush gaskets and copied the shape, >>minus the center hole, in 0.130" aluminum. I unbolted the EGR >>valve, removed the old gasket, and installed the plate with a new >>gasket on either side. I hope this helps. If you're still >>confused, order a replacement gasket from Rusty and it should be >>obvious how you'd want to make the plate. > > >OK, I'm with ya here. >What does this accomplish that a BB in the line doesn't. Your >method does look to be the better way of bypassing the EGR, but is >there a reason to do it that way rather than the down and dirty BB one? > >On a side note, have you had any problems with the pop-up function >on your sunroof? Dennis cautioned me about using it saying that, if >the pop-up fails, the only option is to have the dealer fix it at >quite a bit of cost. I really like it. But, if the feature is >failure prone, I'll stay with sliding the roof open. It seems to me >that popping the sunroof up would be far less troublesome that >sliding it back. Am I wrong here? > >Thanks for explaining your EGR bypass procedure. >Jon > > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/253 - Release Date: 2/7/2006 - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.2/253 - Release Date: 2/7/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Jon Filina wrote: > -->On a side note, have you had any problems with the pop-up function on your > -->sunroof? Dennis cautioned me about using it saying that, if the pop-up > -->fails, the only option is to have the dealer fix it at quite a bit of cost. > -->I really like it. But, if the feature is failure prone, I'll stay with > -->sliding the roof open. It seems to me that popping the sunroof up would be > -->far less troublesome that sliding it back. Am I wrong here? > -->Jon I've noticed on my 124 that if I use the pop up and close it that it doesn't always seal... I have to slide back then close... otherwise no problems with mine... (91 300d) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati wrote: >-->On Wednesday 08 February 2006 08:42, my mailbox was graced by a missive >--> from Stephen Rigley Stephen Rigley who wrote:: >-->>hasn't there been a diesel out for a while now? Same with the Landcruiser? >-->>Check out http://www.toyota.ie/ >-->All those on the streets here are diesels. >-->Cheers, >-->Ron, on the banks of teh Paraguay River. same ol' same ol', ain't no Diesels on these shores... :( john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:26:03 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] '95 E300D EGR bypass On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 03:00:20AM -0600, Jon Filina wrote: > Randy asked: > > >I put the ball bearing into the rubber hose on a 1977 Mercury on the advice > >of a mechanic. The car then ran like garbage and pinged like crazy. I had > >to > >remove the ball bearing in order to make it run properly again. I will > >admit > >that I did nothing else in an effort to compensate - like altering the > >timing etc. Is it likely to have any noticible effect on a diesel? > > Diesels are an entirely different beast when compared to gassers. Gas > engines do create soot but it's much smaller than that of a diesel. > Bypassing the EGR in your old Mercury problem caused a sensor to go > bonkers. My '84 300SD has a BB in the EGR hose and runs just fine, or > did before my daughter caused the steering wheel lock to permanently > engage. I don't know how it ran before, but it will lay rubber on > demand in it's recent state. Actually, in the case of his old mercury, there likely aren't any sensors that went wonky. It probably was tuned lean for emissions then used EGR to cool down the combustion chamber so that it wouldn't ping. With the absence of EGR, the combustion chamber was too hot for the fuel mixture to combust at the right time. Timing, retuning the carb or a few other things would have resolved that. The EGR system on gassers suffers from the same problem as diesels though. Once the engine develops an appetite for oil, the burnt oil cokes up the egr passages. Granted, this takes a lot longer than on a diesel. There are better ways to accomplish EGR goals (with the camshaft for one), but CARB and EPA are more interested in creating regulations so that they are needed as regulating bodies than actually listening to sound engineering. An interesting point with diesels - there were two versions of the 6.2, one with EGR, one without. The difference was somewhere in the neighborhood of a twenty horsepower advantage to the engine without EGR. K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 20:08:45 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Re: only in Europe -Toy RAV-4 That RAV diesel clocks in at almost US$40,000.00, even assuming that price is with tax, lowering it 17% it is still pricy. Ouch! Edward Stephen Rigley wrote: >hasn't there been a diesel out for a while now? Same with the Landcruiser? >Check out http://www.toyota.ie/ > >Steve > >On 2/7/06, john wrote: > > >>toyota's going Diesel... always thought that the >>rav4 was a decent little compact... with a Diesel it'll be >>even nicer... >> >>john >> >>On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, wmpless wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> Fahrzeugschein >>>--> >>>--> Hersteller: >>>--> Toyota >>>--> >>>--> Typ: >>>--> RAV- 4 >>>--> >>>--> Karosserie: >>>--> Geldndewagen >>>--> >>>--> Motor: >>>--> Vierzylinder- Turbodiesel >>>--> >>>--> Hubraum: >>>--> 2.231 ccm >>>--> >>>--> Leistung: >>>--> 130 kW >>>--> >>>--> >>>--> 177 PS >>>--> >>>--> Drehmoment: >>>--> 400 Nm >>>--> >>>--> Von 0 auf 100: >>>--> 9,3 s >>>--> >>>--> Hvchstgeschw.: >>>--> 200 km/h >>>--> >>>--> Verbrauch (ECE): >>>--> 7,0 Liter >>>--> >>>--> Kraftstoff: >>>--> Diesel >>>--> >>>--> Kofferraum: >>>--> 450 Liter >>>--> >>>--> umgebaut: >>>--> 1.752 Liter >>>--> >>>--> Versicherung: >>>--> 19 (HP) >>>--> >>>--> >>>--> 20 (TK) >>>--> >>>--> >>>--> 24 (VK) >>>--> >>>--> Preis: >>>--> 27.300 EUR >>>--> >>>-->Hi, >>>-->read that above mentioned vehicle will be offered in Europe with foll. >>> >>> >opt. > > >>>-->engine: >>>--> >>>-->4 cyl. turbo diesel, 2.231 ccm, 177 hp, torque 400 nm, >>>-->from 0 -100 9.3 s, top speed 200 k/h, >>>-->fuel consumption: 7.0L per 100k - 26.5 m/US gal >>>-->--------- >>>-->will beat quite a few MB diesels >>>--> >>> >>> >> ---- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2096 **********************************