From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 3 07:14:16 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, July 3 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2185 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Re: [db] Good grief Re: [db] Good grief Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel filters. john On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->> change the fuel filters... check the injectors... >--> >-->*** I might add that it starts easily and runs smooth. Idles good, too. >--> >--> - Jerry >--> >--> >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->> >-->>>-->*** Well, my broker's '81 300SD is still pretty slow. It can only >-->>> make 25MPH up >-->>>-->my hill. I already cleared the line from the manifold to the ALDA. >-->>>--> >-->>>--> Other things I can think of to do might include >-->>>--> * changing the fuel filters >-->>>--> * checking the valve adjustment >-->>>--> * measuring the turbo boost. >-->>>--> >-->>>--> Hints? Is there a filter in the fuel tank? The car sat a lot for >-->>> the past >-->>>-->few years. Algae? >-->>>--> >-->>>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >-->>>--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:54:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence makes me appreciate the E-series / 124 Diesel I have... it's been remarkably reliable and relatively easy to work on. the water pump was the worst I've ever had to do, and I really didn't need to... we just drove over the pass and went to Leavenworth today for a schnitzel... did fine over the pass, but I took it easy, temp gauge went higher than I like it to go... wonder how it's going to be going over the Rockies on our way to SD in a few weeks... john On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > -->Congratulations - you are one of the many lucky drivers that owns one of the > -->1999 through 2002 models where MB tried to duplicate GM "value engineering" > -->to cut component costs.......and it is a gasser, not diesel :-( > --> > -->They were scrambling to reverse the bad publicity and poor image the quality > -->issues have caused, from what I understand, this got somewhat better from > -->2003 onwards. I am sure others on the list can comment on this as well. > --> > -->If I were in your shoes and could afford another car, would seriously > -->consider dumping it. Even by current standards, that is one heck of a lot of > -->repairs for a not too old car. As to cheap to repair, that is only the 200 > -->series and the diesels up to 1995, after that I am not so sure. > --> > -->Edward > --> > -->Michael Frank wrote: > --> > -->> The thing I liked best about Mercedes was that they were both reliable > -->> and cheap to fix. Which is one of the reasons why I bought a '99 E320 > -->> 4-matic Wagon. Well, seven years later I have six months left on the > -->> extended warranty, and I'm thinking that I need to dump this thing > -->> before I start paying for repairs. It's not just that it breaks a lot. > -->> It's that the repairs are so incredibly complex. Here's the score after > -->> 54,000 miles: > -->> > -->> - Brake job every 15,000 miles. Last brake change, a caliper bolt on > -->> the left rear stripped out and needed to be helicoiled. > -->> > -->> - Tie rod end replaced at 25,000 miles > -->> > -->> - Alternator died at 30,000 miles. > -->> > -->> - Ball joint replaced at 35,0000 miles. > -->> > -->> - Battery died after four years. No big deal, except the size is unique > -->> to the Mercedes wagon. New battery $115 at the dealer, not including > -->> installation. > -->> > -->> - Repeated ruptured tires and bent rims, due to low profile tires and > -->> typical New York roads > -->> > -->> - Air mass sensor and a control box failed at 40,000. Replacement at > -->> dealer, $1200. > -->> > -->> - Replaced spark plugs at 45K. Cost $400 at dealer. > -->> > -->> - At 48K, I tried to rotate the tires and found that 8 out of 20 wheel > -->> bolts had frozen in place. A full days work to drill out. > -->> > -->> - Starter died at 50K. Installation required removing manifold, exhaust > -->> pipe, cat, drive shaft and front axle. Cat was mangled, requiring > -->> replacement. Total, including labor, $2000. > -->> > -->> - Current problems: A/C blows hot, but only on drivers side. > -->> Passenger seat will move forward, but not > -->> back > -->> Sunroof opens only half way > -->> Driver seat position memory function > -->> doesn't work > -->> Pulls to right, probably another tie rod > -->> end > -->> Brakes pulsating, probably another warped > -->> rotor > -->> Stress crack in windshield > -->> A surprising amount of rust > -->> > -->> This seems like a lot of repairs for a lightly used, fairly young car. > -->> Without the extended warranty, it would have really hurt. While I'd > -->> normally say that I could do these repairs myself more cheaply than the > -->> dealer, it's not the case with this car. The starter, for example, was > -->> so difficult to reach that the car was at the dealer a full week. If I > -->> was doing it, it would have happened on a snowy day and I'd have been > -->> on my back in the driveway for days. Simple things like spark plugs are > -->> simply inaccessible. So I'm looking at this lovely car and thinking > -->> that it's time it was gone. But then I look at resale values, and it's > -->> clear that the word is out. I can probably get a reasonable deal on a > -->> Dodge Magnum, and I'm thinking that a few years of repairs would pay > -->> the difference. > -->> > -->> What happened to Mercedes? > -->> > -->> Mike Frank > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:09:48 -0400 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Jerry wrote: >>change the fuel filters... check the injectors... >> >> > >*** I might add that it starts easily and runs smooth. Idles good, too. > > Jerry, If changing the filters doesn't solve the problem, take a look on the firewall. I don't remember the name of the part, but there is a bracket that has a rod from the throttle pedal on one side and a rod going to the injection pump on the one side. It is directly behind the injection pump and twists left and right. The one on my '81 240D went south and I had the same symptoms as are the 300D. What was happening was that full throttle, at the pedal, resulted in the rod to the injection pump only moving about 25-50 percent of it's movement. If you floor the pedal, with the engine off, the throttle plate on the pump should move all the way to the stop. If not, it's probably the assembly on the firewall. The cost? I don't remember. Maybe as much as $50. I do remember getting the dealer parts guy out to look at the car before he figured out what the part was. MB made many changes to this part and there may be more than one for each model year. Take a look and see if that may be the problem. Jon '84 300SD "Bruno" '95 E300D "Ernestine" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:08:10 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] Good grief > >-->'76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (my daily driver) > >-->- suddenly started stalling/dying on Friday > >--> (might be fuel? need to find where the fuel > >--> filters are -- already have new filters on hand) > > follow the lines... can you see the primary? the > secondary is up on the engine probably by > the PS pump... if it's running maybe you can > swing by my work (working tomorrow) or my house > in the evening... I can show you how to do them. Not sure what the primary or secondary look like, since I don't see anything matching the parts I have, and the braingear pages don't seem to work for a w115 (lots of 404 pdf links). > >--> (Or at least I *think* I have the right filters. > >--> Got them from the Lynnwood MB parts dept, but I > >--> can't see anything that looks remotely like the > >--> parts they sold me...) > > If Nick was involved, it's 100% correct. Then it should be correct. He and Roelle had to work their way thru several layers of parts listings to follow the "replaced with upgraded part" sequences. > >-->'93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] > >-->- in the shop for fuel leaks and possible front > >--> brakes problems (Jim Startup is unfortunately > >--> running *way* behind due to employee problems) > > oh no... I was going to run my benz through his shop > to check the motor mounts, replace the speedo cable > and possibly fix the rear axle seals... maybe I need > to spend some quality time with Shadowfax here... :( He might be caught up by now. Hopefully he is, since I suddenly have a bunch of stuff. :( > >-->'00 MB ML320 [W163.154/M112.942] (to be sold, hopefully) > >-->- wife just called from a gig to alert me that she > >--> couldn't close the sunroof anymore (she's still > >--> out, so that might just be a stick or other simple > >--> jam up, I hope) > > hey, be thankful, this is the first 4th of July I can think of that > it wasn't raining before the holiday!!! Very glad indeed. With the 300D at Jim's at least we have the canopied area for it to hide under just in case, for now (that and we were able to close it in the end). I don't think it is too major, although with a 2000 Mercedes, who knows... The rods which lift the bracket for the (not included) wind deflector broke out of their thin, plastic brackets, and were blocking the sunroof from sliding more than halfway closed. Was able to just pull them off to get it working fine (since the wind deflector is useless anyway). But, probably need to get it fixed for the theoretical sale at some point... > does public transportation service your area? > I'd have to go at least 4 miles west, 8 miles south > or 6 miles north to find any kind of bus... Fortunately, if needed, there is a bus stop about two blocks away. I'm glad we got the sunroof closed, though, since we're supposed to go to Cle Elum Monday -- and with Brooke's Toyota having key problems, the 300D at Jim's and the hills between here and there likely being unpleasant with my w115, we'll be going in the ML. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Good grief the sunroof on my '91 Grand Wagoneer did the same thing... curtis got it fixed pretty quick... I fiddled with it for a short time and gave up... my wife pointed out that I'm losing my touch... I guess I'm going soft... :) john On Sun, 2 Jul 2006, Bruce Caruthers wrote: >-->> >-->'76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (my daily driver) >-->> >-->- suddenly started stalling/dying on Friday >-->> >--> (might be fuel? need to find where the fuel >-->> >--> filters are -- already have new filters on hand) >-->> >-->> follow the lines... can you see the primary? the >-->> secondary is up on the engine probably by >-->> the PS pump... if it's running maybe you can >-->> swing by my work (working tomorrow) or my house >-->> in the evening... I can show you how to do them. >--> >--> >--> Not sure what the primary or secondary look like, >--> since I don't see anything matching the parts I >--> have, and the braingear pages don't seem to work >--> for a w115 (lots of 404 pdf links). >--> >--> >-->> >--> (Or at least I *think* I have the right filters. >-->> >--> Got them from the Lynnwood MB parts dept, but I >-->> >--> can't see anything that looks remotely like the >-->> >--> parts they sold me...) >-->> >-->> If Nick was involved, it's 100% correct. >--> >--> >--> Then it should be correct. He and Roelle had to >--> work their way thru several layers of parts >--> listings to follow the "replaced with upgraded >--> part" sequences. >--> >--> >-->> >-->'93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] >-->> >-->- in the shop for fuel leaks and possible front >-->> >--> brakes problems (Jim Startup is unfortunately >-->> >--> running *way* behind due to employee problems) >-->> >-->> oh no... I was going to run my benz through his shop >-->> to check the motor mounts, replace the speedo cable >-->> and possibly fix the rear axle seals... maybe I need >-->> to spend some quality time with Shadowfax here... :( >--> >--> >--> He might be caught up by now. Hopefully he is, >--> since I suddenly have a bunch of stuff. :( >--> >--> >-->> >-->'00 MB ML320 [W163.154/M112.942] (to be sold, hopefully) >-->> >-->- wife just called from a gig to alert me that she >-->> >--> couldn't close the sunroof anymore (she's still >-->> >--> out, so that might just be a stick or other simple >-->> >--> jam up, I hope) >-->> >-->> hey, be thankful, this is the first 4th of July I can think of that >-->> it wasn't raining before the holiday!!! >--> >--> >--> Very glad indeed. With the 300D at Jim's at least >--> we have the canopied area for it to hide under >--> just in case, for now (that and we were able to >--> close it in the end). >--> >--> I don't think it is too major, although with a 2000 >--> Mercedes, who knows... The rods which lift the bracket >--> for the (not included) wind deflector broke out of >--> their thin, plastic brackets, and were blocking the >--> sunroof from sliding more than halfway closed. Was >--> able to just pull them off to get it working fine >--> (since the wind deflector is useless anyway). But, >--> probably need to get it fixed for the theoretical >--> sale at some point... >--> >--> >-->> does public transportation service your area? >-->> I'd have to go at least 4 miles west, 8 miles south >-->> or 6 miles north to find any kind of bus... >--> >--> >--> Fortunately, if needed, there is a bus stop about >--> two blocks away. I'm glad we got the sunroof >--> closed, though, since we're supposed to go to Cle >--> Elum Monday -- and with Brooke's Toyota having >--> key problems, the 300D at Jim's and the hills >--> between here and there likely being unpleasant >--> with my w115, we'll be going in the ML. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel > Jerry wrote: > >>>change the fuel filters... check the injectors... >>> >>> >> >>*** I might add that it starts easily and runs smooth. Idles good, too. >> >> > > Jerry, > > If changing the filters doesn't solve the problem, take a look on the > firewall. *** I was thinking of just this last night - what about the pedal linkages? Being a one-man shop, I was trying to think of some way to at least check it. How to push the pedal and watch the linkage? One way would be to get out the hydraulic port-a-pusher and wedge it onto the pedal. Another that I just thought of would be to get out my endoscope and hope it's long enough to swing round the windshield. I already found one issue with the linkages - the link to the Vacuum Control Valve was set too long. So the VCV was hitting its stop before full throttle. From the day I bought this car, I felt that the throttle "modulation" just was not very good. I would put it down to "slow diesels", except that my 300D ( now residing at the airport in Fresno ) has good pedal modulation and plenty of power. It's possible that when they rebuilt the engine, they did not do the best possible job of setting up the linkages. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) I don't remember the name of the part, but there is a bracket > that has a rod from the throttle pedal on one side and a rod going to > the injection pump on the one side. It is directly behind the injection > pump and twists left and right. The one on my '81 240D went south and I > had the same symptoms as are the 300D. What was happening was that full > throttle, at the pedal, resulted in the rod to the injection pump only > moving about 25-50 percent of it's movement. If you floor the pedal, > with the engine off, the throttle plate on the pump should move all the > way to the stop. If not, it's probably the assembly on the firewall. > The cost? I don't remember. Maybe as much as $50. I do remember > getting the dealer parts guy out to look at the car before he figured > out what the part was. MB made many changes to this part and there may > be more than one for each model year. > > Take a look and see if that may be the problem. > > Jon > '84 300SD "Bruno" > '95 E300D "Ernestine" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:11:53 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel I suspect we have a winner here. This one makes the most sense. Quoting Jon Filina : > Jerry wrote: > > >>change the fuel filters... check the injectors... > >> > >> > > > >*** I might add that it starts easily and runs smooth. Idles good, too. > > > > > > Jerry, > > If changing the filters doesn't solve the problem, take a look on the > firewall. I don't remember the name of the part, but there is a bracket > that has a rod from the throttle pedal on one side and a rod going to > the injection pump on the one side. It is directly behind the injection > pump and twists left and right. The one on my '81 240D went south and I > had the same symptoms as are the 300D. What was happening was that full > throttle, at the pedal, resulted in the rod to the injection pump only > moving about 25-50 percent of it's movement. If you floor the pedal, > with the engine off, the throttle plate on the pump should move all the > way to the stop. If not, it's probably the assembly on the firewall. > The cost? I don't remember. Maybe as much as $50. I do remember > getting the dealer parts guy out to look at the car before he figured > out what the part was. MB made many changes to this part and there may > be more than one for each model year. > > Take a look and see if that may be the problem. > > Jon > '84 300SD "Bruno" > '95 E300D "Ernestine" ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2185 **********************************