From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 8 12:04:05 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, July 8 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2191 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Re: [db] Hard start when hot Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge RE: [db] Hard start when hot Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge Re: [db] checking glow plugs Re: [db] checking glow plugs Re: [db] Question about starting a 1979 240D after not running for a couple of years Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:08:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux *** '81 300SD: Today I plan to adjust the valves, check for cam chain stretch, and replace the fuel filters. Hopefully all this will bring it quite back to life. If not, the next thing I can think of would be the injection pump timing. Anybody have experience timing the IP? I see that there are several ways to do it, the easiest being with a monstrously expensive tool from Mercedes that plugs into a port in the side of the IP, and apparently senses a notch in the rotating shaft inside the port. I wonder if this could be simulated with by sticking my horrendously expensive endoscope into the hole and just looking for the notch? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:55:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux best bet is to replace the chain and line everything up then, it's unlikely that the pump is out terribly... although someone may have reduced the fuel volume on the back of the pump to get through emissions... I had the reverse problem once... ran very fast but smoked like crazy... had to turn the fuel rate down... john On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->*** '81 300SD: >--> Today I plan to adjust the valves, check for cam chain stretch, and >-->replace the fuel filters. Hopefully all this will bring it quite >-->back to life. >--> >--> If not, the next thing I can think of would be the injection pump >-->timing. Anybody have experience timing the IP? >--> >--> I see that there are several ways to do it, the easiest being with >-->a monstrously expensive tool from Mercedes that plugs into a port >-->in the side of the IP, and apparently senses a notch in the rotating >-->shaft inside the port. I wonder if this could be simulated with by >-->sticking my horrendously expensive endoscope into the hole and just >-->looking for the notch? >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:50:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux > best bet is to replace the chain and line everything up then, it's > unlikely that the pump is out terribly... although someone may > have reduced the fuel volume on the back of the pump to get through > emissions... *** Surely not here in California. They don't check diesel emissions. I see that the replace timing chain procedure in the Mercedes book says to use a master link that has a pair of locking clips. But the master links from the usual suspects are a "peened" type. Somehow the thought of banging on the sprocket with a ball pein hammer does not exactly thrill me. - jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:24:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux uh, Jerry... ever heard of a small clamp on press tool? :) you're making me nervous... you don't work on your own airplane do you? :) john On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->> >-->> best bet is to replace the chain and line everything up then, it's >-->> unlikely that the pump is out terribly... although someone may >-->> have reduced the fuel volume on the back of the pump to get through >-->> emissions... >-->*** Surely not here in California. They don't check diesel emissions. >--> >-->I see that the replace timing chain procedure in the Mercedes book says >-->to use a master link that has a pair of locking clips. But the master >-->links from the usual suspects are a "peened" type. Somehow the thought of >-->banging on the sprocket with a ball pein hammer does not exactly thrill >-->me. >--> >--> - jerry >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:07:05 -0700 From: "Roger Shoaf" Subject: Re: [db] Hard start when hot I had this happen on a Mercury Topaz. I overhauled the starter myself and after the starter would work hot or cold. Roger Shoaf If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the Congress? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Pomeroy" To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: [db] Hard start when hot > Dear Listers: > > This is non DB but is diesel iginition related. Need some pointers on > where to look first. > > I am putting the 85 Volvo 740 with a D24T engine back into shape, lots > of odds and ends wrong that need repair. . Issue - the dash shows the > glow plug light for about 3 seconds and engine fires right up every > morning when stone cold. No problems whatsoever. Runs fine and has an > acceleration that puts my 300D to shame.. > > HOWEVER (a big one at that), when you try to re-start after it is warmed > up, takes a lot of grinding to fire up, acts that way all day, until it > has had all night to get stone cold again.. I can't logic this one out. > Easy cold starts but hard hot starts, runs fine once it fires up under > all conditions, no hesitations or other problems. Just the hard hot start. > > If anyone has a ciruit diagram for the glow circuit and other electrical > controls related to the starting cycle, please advise. This is same > engine as in several VW diesels. Could bad injectors do this, and if > they are bad or leaky, how come easy starts cold? > > One stumped troll in MI. > > Edward > > J.B. Hebert wrote: > > > Check resistance to ground at the relay connector. If you have > > infinite resistance, the plug is bad. You should have less than 1 ohm > > cold. Here is the pinout for the connector: > > > > Pin Cylinder > > 1 2 > > 2 1 > > 3 3 > > 5 4 > > 7 5 > > > > Check procedure 15-710 in your service manual for details. > > > > Regards, > > > > J.B. Hebert > > > > At 10:57 AM 7/6/2006, you wrote: > > > >> 1983 300D > >> I want to check my glow plugs. I am prepared to take them out and > >> look at them, but is their an easier way??? > >> Bill > >> > >> -- > >> William H. Dentzel > >> 843 53rd Street > >> Port Townsend WA 98368 > >> email: bilito-at-gmail.com > >> website: http://www.dentzel.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:44:53 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 08:55:25PM -0700, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > The other day, I was driving my 300SD around. At a quarter of a tank, > I wasn't worried. Then the engine died and we coasted to a stop. No > gas. I ran down the hill, bought a gas can and two gallons of diesel, > went back to the car, poured, primed, started, and went back to the gas > station to fill-er-up. Sometimes the gauges need some driving to clear up. A common 124 problem is that someone swapped the return line and the draw line going into the tank, so that the car will 'run out of gas' with about 2.5 gallons left in the tank. Okay, not THAT common. Theoretically, it could happen on a 126 or 201 I suppose, haven't looked at the tank diagrams on those to see if it's similar to a 124. > Should I go in and bend up the float arm? No. > I had a half gallon of Delvac 1500 in the trunk. Could I have poured > that in to go to the gas station? Non issue now, because now I have a 2 > gallon gas can full of diesel in the trunk. How long does diesel fuel > last in storage anyway? Don't know how long it lasts, but since it absorbs water from the atmosphere, probably not too long untreated. > The new filter at the Mercedes dealer is not see-through. That sucks. > I love those see-through filters. You can really see what's going on. The last couple of filters I got from Rusty were see-through. The dealer ones are opaque black. K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:17:05 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] Hard start when hot > Roger Shoaf > > If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, what does this say about the > Congress? > Well, it at least says there are other paths to corruption, because Congress often exhibits a distinct lack of knowledge. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 206K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:21:11 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Gutless Diesel Redux Jerry Kaidor wrote: >> best bet is to replace the chain and line everything up then, it's >> unlikely that the pump is out terribly... although someone may >> have reduced the fuel volume on the back of the pump to get through >> emissions... >> > *** Surely not here in California. They don't check diesel emissions. > > I see that the replace timing chain procedure in the Mercedes book says > to use a master link that has a pair of locking clips. But the master > links from the usual suspects are a "peened" type. Somehow the thought of > banging on the sprocket with a ball pein hammer does not exactly thrill > me. > > - jerry > I think that peened is a better choice than the clips. Somehow I have a hard time trusting a connection like this that is easier to do. They sell a little press do do this job for about $250. IIRC George Murphy describes how to do this with some vise-grips. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA '85 300SD Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 20:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge > A common 124 problem > is > that someone swapped the return line and the draw line *** I'm starting to see some less than competent work that's been done on my 300SD. Nothing blatant like my 300D - which had a total abortion engine swap out of a 300TD... but subtle things. Like the VCV being misadjusted. I'm really curious about what sort of engine rebuild was done, and by whom. Was it a local shop rebuild? A crate engine? Gotta nag my broker again for the records. She was not shy to spend money on the car - the old shocks were Konis, there was a brand new battery, a new radiator. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:54:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge lots of clueless mechanics out there charging large amounts of money... john On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->> A common 124 problem >-->> is >-->> that someone swapped the return line and the draw line >--> >-->*** I'm starting to see some less than competent work that's been done >-->on my 300SD. Nothing blatant like my 300D - which had a total abortion >-->engine swap out of a 300TD... but subtle things. Like the VCV being >-->misadjusted. I'm really curious about what sort of engine rebuild was >-->done, and by whom. Was it a local shop rebuild? A crate engine? Gotta >-->nag my broker again for the records. >--> >--> She was not shy to spend money on the car - the old shocks were Konis, >-->there was a brand new battery, a new radiator. >--> >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 22:04:18 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] Inaccurate fuel gauge >lots of clueless mechanics out there charging large amounts of money... > >john sigh... so true, so true. =\ - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:11:28 -0500 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs My glow plug light stop working on the 83 300D. I think the plugs are not working either it starts rough. The good news it that the WVO system is complete and working. John, I will get some pictures. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Shoaf" Reply-To: "Roger Shoaf" To: Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:31:59 -0700 >Also if you have to remove them, you can fight and work around the tubing >going to the injectors, or you can remove the injector lines. I have done >both and by far removing the injector lines is the least painful way. > >Also the controller for the glow plugs gives out sometimes. They got a new >one that keeps the plugs glowing for a short time after the engine starts >for less smoke at startup. > >Roger Shoaf >83 300SD >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jerry Kaidor" >To: >Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:53 AM >Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs > > > > > 1983 300D > > > I want to check my glow plugs. I am prepared to take them out and > > > look at them, but is their an easier way??? > > > > *** Sure. Just ohm them out. There's a connector at the fenderwall. > > Pull the plug and measure from each pin to the vehicle chassis, or the > > engine block. A good glowplug will measure about .6 ohms. A bad one will > > generally measure thousands of ohms. Anything over a couple ohms is an > > automatic reject. > > > > Even if you pull them, you'll still have to ohm them. > > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs On Sat, 8 Jul 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: cool... I'm putting these up in http://wagoneers.com/DIESELS john >-->My glow plug light stop working on the 83 300D. I think the plugs are >-->not working either it starts rough. >--> >-->The good news it that the WVO system is complete and working. John, I >-->will get some pictures. >--> >-->Allen >--> >--> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> From: "Roger Shoaf" >--> Reply-To: "Roger Shoaf" >--> To: >--> Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs >--> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:31:59 -0700 >--> >Also if you have to remove them, you can fight and work around the >--> tubing >--> >going to the injectors, or you can remove the injector lines. I >--> have done >--> >both and by far removing the injector lines is the least painful >--> way. >--> > >--> >Also the controller for the glow plugs gives out sometimes. They >--> got a new >--> >one that keeps the plugs glowing for a short time after the engine >--> starts >--> >for less smoke at startup. >--> > >--> >Roger Shoaf >--> >83 300SD >--> >----- Original Message ----- >--> >From: "Jerry Kaidor" >--> >To: >--> >Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:53 AM >--> >Subject: Re: [db] checking glow plugs >--> > >--> > >--> > > > 1983 300D >--> > > > I want to check my glow plugs. I am prepared to take them out >--> and >--> > > > look at them, but is their an easier way??? >--> > > >--> > > *** Sure. Just ohm them out. There's a connector at the >--> fenderwall. >--> > > Pull the plug and measure from each pin to the vehicle chassis, >--> or the >--> > > engine block. A good glowplug will measure about .6 ohms. A bad >--> one will >--> > > generally measure thousands of ohms. Anything over a couple ohms >--> is an >--> > > automatic reject. >--> > > >--> > > Even if you pull them, you'll still have to ohm them. >--> > > >--> > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 14:57:51 -0400 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: [db] Question about starting a 1979 240D after not running for a couple of years What he said....with emphasis on "drive the snot out of it". If it won't start....tow it....even with an automatic transmission. If the oil was still full.....I wouldn't even worry about the initial oil change before the "fill it up and drive it like it's stolen" phase. It's an MB 240D. If it's got oil in the crankcase.....and water in the radiator......you are really hard pressed to hurt it. After all....a 240D is the automotive equivalent of a stone axe. A thousand years from now, archaeologists will dig up hideously rusty 240D's that run just fine, and have nice MB-Tex upholstery. If only they'd made the sheetmetal as indestructible as the MB-Tex... Jim Steere - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Richard F Dillon" Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [db] Question about starting a 1979 240D after not running for a couple of years > have you just tried to start it? > > check the oil... and go... > > let it warm up, but don't drive it... drain the oil, > and change it after it's been fully warmed up... > > then drive it slowly, and carefully > to the fuel depot, top off the tank... then > drive the snot out of it... > > after one or two tanks, change the filters... > > john > > > On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Richard F Dillon wrote: > > > -->Folks, my son and I are going to try our best to start "Fritzy" after not > > -->running for ~1.5 years. Are there any tips? We will drain the gas tank, > > -->add an algacide, replace the fuel filters, put a little lubromoly diesel > > -->purge in a fresh fuel filter, and pump! Any other advice before we spend > > -->our day in vain? I have heard something about bleeding the fuel injectors, > > -->but don't know how. Does anyone have any advice about how best to start up > > -->a 19979 240D after having it sit for a couple of years? Thanks so much in > > -->advance! > > --> > > --> > > -->"Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Choose your words, for they > > -->become actions. Understand your actions, for they become habits. Study your > > -->habits, they will become your character. Develop your character for it > > -->becomes your destiny." > > --> > > --> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2191 **********************************