From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 22 22:44:26 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, July 23 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2200 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless [db] road trip begins... Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:27:07 -0700 From: Tom Harais Subject: Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless Jerry Kaidor wrote: >Maybe I can get a cheap(er) paint job out there in the Valley. > > Jerry: Let me know if you find anything. I've got two cars I'd like to get painted. I just can't beleive what decent paint jobs cost these days. One of those cars I'm willing to go cheap with a Miracle or Earl Schieb. But, even then I have my doubts that I'm going to get it for the advertised $700 or so price. I'm sure there is a catch. The MB I'm willing to spend much more on. But, I'd like orginial Wurth paint and attention to detail. Freinds who've had such jobs are quoting mentioning $5,000 to $7,000 numbers. Sheesh! Tom H., '87 300 SDL SF Bay Area (about 45 minutes west of Stockton) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:47:39 -0700 From: Brian Knowles Subject: Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless Tom Harais wrote: > Jerry Kaidor wrote: > >> Maybe I can get a cheap(er) paint job out there in the Valley. >> >> > Jerry: > > Let me know if you find anything. I've got two cars I'd like to get > painted. I just can't beleive what decent paint jobs cost these days. > > One of those cars I'm willing to go cheap with a Miracle or Earl > Schieb. But, even then I have my doubts that I'm going to get it for > the advertised $700 or so price. I'm sure there is a catch. > > The MB I'm willing to spend much more on. But, I'd like orginial > Wurth paint and attention to detail. Freinds who've had such jobs are > quoting mentioning $5,000 to $7,000 numbers. Sheesh! > > Tom H., '87 300 SDL > SF Bay Area (about 45 minutes west of Stockton) > Couple of years ago I set out to get estimates for a really good paint job on my old 420 Jag. Numbers ran just in that range, 5 to 7k. I didn't want to repaint it that badly. In fact, I sold the car. My next door neighbor just had his '73 El Camino repainted by a local Mexican, got a better than Shieb quality job for only $1500. Check your local underground workforce... bk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:01:27 -0700 From: Tom Harais Subject: Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Michael Frank wrote: > > > What happened to Mercedes? > > Mike Frank > Mike: Sadly, you only confirm what I've been hearing myself about MB reliability on more recent models. A quick check of Consumer Reports shows that most MBs at worse then average and much worse than average in the repairs category. It's really disappointing! And the upkeep cost......especially if you take it to a "stealer" makes it only feasible for those with more dollars than sense. I envy those of you that have a reasonable, indepdent shop nearby. I found one once, but it is over 200 miles from my home. The nearest dealer to me is one of those "if you have to ask the price, you don't belong here types". Although, when I've gone to the parts department there, I;ve seen cars lined up 25 or 30 deep and 3 wide at the entrance to thier service facility. But that's over in Walnut Creek where a lot of corporate execs and future wannabes live. I've had my '87 300 SDL for six years and over 100,000 miles. It has had a lot more that needed attention than my '87 Honda Prelude ever did over it's 200,000 mile life but it has been as cheap and easy to fix as most any car I've ever had because; 1) I got my parts from Rusty, 2) I did almost all the work myself and 3) I had other cars available to drive so I didn't have to rush or make immediate descisions to resolve something at whatever cost was necessary. It hasn't been a bad car, repair wise but it hasn't been as trouble free as my best cars either. But, I do have to say in considering future auto purchases, I 'd sure I'd be better off with something Japanese than an MB. Equal or better quality, accouterments, ride and superior reliability. And that is truly sad. Tom H. '87 300 SDL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:14:40 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless >Couple of years ago I set out to get estimates for a really good >paint job on my old 420 Jag. What is it with the Jaguar/Diesel crossover in this group? ;) >My next door neighbor just had his '73 El Camino repainted by a >local Mexican, got a better than Shieb quality job for only $1500. >Check your local underground workforce... Another option is local community/vocational colleges. If they offer any automotive repair track involving paint, and you are willing to have your car be a student project, that is usually an excellent course of action. On a completely unrelated note, the Liberty CRD is dead as a doornail this morning... we suspect the cooling fan ran all night after the hot commute home yesterday. The thing is beset with electrical gremlins that make the Price of Darkness (aka Lucas) seem benign and well-behaved by comparison. It is less than a month old and it is going back to the dealer for a THIRD time to fix this constant running fan and a cruise control that turns off if you go downhill, or through a tunnel (I kid you not!) Any Jeep service departments with a clue here in the Seattle area? The wrenches at Rairdon's seemingly cannot find their posteriors with all their paws. =\ - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:22:25 -0700 From: Tom Harais Subject: Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence john wrote: >did fine over the pass, but I took it easy, temp gauge >went higher than I like it to go... wonder how it's going to be going >over the Rockies on our way to SD in a few weeks... > > John: Do you have any idea what is going on? My 300 SDL always ran rock solid at an indicated 85 degrees with occasional runs up to 100 when it was hot, the A/C was on and it was under load (like going up a pass). But two summers ago, the temp gauge started being more sensitive to loads and it's steadily gotten worse. Everything cooling related seems to work and I've replaced the cap and thermostat and flushed the system and noticed no changes. It is fine in weather less than 75 degrees and it's fine most of the time in hot weather too. But, get it under load, like climbing a grade in hot weather and it will climb rapidly and once it does, it seem more prone to doing so for the rest of that drive. It's never grossly overheated or boiled over but it does make me edgy when I see that temp gauge climb above 100. It almost made 120 one day on a very steep (900 feet in 1/2 mile) climb over a local hill. There was no noticible corrosion in the cooling system when I flushed it and replaced the thermostat. After that repair with no improvement, I got really paranoid about the #14 head. But, the cooling system doesn't pressurize on startup although like all MBs, it will hold pressure for days. And, I'm not loosing coolant. Although, there was a time when every once in a while I saw a small coolant level drop but I found that the top radiator hose connection had an intermittent leak that I would repair and then it would come back a few month's latter. Using two clamps solved that problem. ;-) The aux fan seems to work appropriately. The fan clutch slips when cold as it should but I've never been able to tell exactly if it is working properly when at 105 as it should because I lack the experience to do so and it isn't often I can get it up to 105 except on highway or freeway grade. The literature says you will "hear" the fan moving large volumes of air when it works properly. I've tried this and even shut the engine off and tried to see if there was resistance in the clutch but was unsure of my own observations. Right now, I'm leaning towards doing the silicone fluid replacement on this original fan clutch but it's too darn hot to pull it while it's sitting in the driveway. Any thoughts from this group? I've seen in some places, mention of the need to replace the radiator if it is 7 or more years old. But, I don't see any problems with the one I have and I'm loath to throw $400 worth of radiator at it without know that it needs that. Other than comparing surface temperature around the radiator when hot, how does one check flow on an MB radiator? It's not like we have a top tank with a cap to open and watch the flow. I've also read that the temp gauge senders are known to go out of wack. On that advice, I hooked up remote BBQ thermometers to the radiator and to the top coolant hose. I never observed a temp in excess of 184 F on the top hose even though the stock gauge was showing in excess of 100 C. Of course, I do relize tha the top hose is post-raditor collant flow. I used it due to the ability to tape the sending unit for the remote thermometer easily. the bottom hose was more problematic. Tom H., '87 300 SDL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:21:09 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence Tom Harais wrote: john wrote: did fine over the pass, but I took it easy, temp gauge went higher than I like it to go... wonder how it's going to be going over the Rockies on our way to SD in a few weeks... John: Do you have any idea what is going on? My 300 SDL always ran rock solid at an indicated 85 degrees with occasional runs up to 100 when it was hot, the A/C was on and it was under load (like going up a pass). But two summers ago, the temp gauge started being more sensitive to loads and it's steadily gotten worse. Everything cooling related seems to work and I've replaced the cap and thermostat and flushed the system and noticed no changes. It is fine in weather less than 75 degrees and it's fine most of the time in hot weather too. But, get it under load, like climbing a grade in hot weather and it will climb rapidly and once it does, it seem more prone to doing so for the rest of that drive. It's never grossly overheated or boiled over but it does make me edgy when I see that temp gauge climb above 100. It almost made 120 one day on a very steep (900 feet in 1/2 mile) climb over a local hill. There was no noticible corrosion in the cooling system when I flushed it and replaced the thermostat. After that repair with no improvement, I got really paranoid about the #14 head. But, the cooling system doesn't pressurize on startup although like all MBs, it will hold pressure for days. And, I'm not loosing coolant. Although, there was a time when every once in a while I saw a small coolant level drop but I found that the top radiator hose connection had an intermittent leak that I would repair and then it would come back a few month's latter. Using two clamps solved that problem. ;-) The aux fan seems to work appropriately. The fan clutch slips when cold as it should but I've never been able to tell exactly if it is working properly when at 105 as it should because I lack the experience to do so and it isn't often I can get it up to 105 except on highway or freeway grade. The literature says you will "hear" the fan moving large volumes of air when it works properly. I've tried this and even shut the engine off and tried to see if there was resistance in the clutch but was unsure of my own observations. Right now, I'm leaning towards doing the silicone fluid replacement on this original fan clutch but it's too darn hot to pull it while it's sitting in the driveway. Any thoughts from this group? I've seen in some places, mention of the need to replace the radiator if it is 7 or more years old. But, I don't see any problems with the one I have and I'm loath to throw $400 worth of radiator at it without know that it needs that. Other than comparing surface temperature around the radiator when hot, how does one check flow on an MB radiator? It's not like we have a top tank with a cap to open and watch the flow. I've also read that the temp gauge senders are known to go out of wack. On that advice, I hooked up remote BBQ thermometers to the radiator and to the top coolant hose. I never observed a temp in excess of 184 F on the top hose even though the stock gauge was showing in excess of 100 C. Of course, I do relize tha the top hose is post-raditor collant flow. I used it due to the ability to tape the sending unit for the remote thermometer easily. the bottom hose was more problematic. Tom H., '87 300 SDL I am experiencing some heating gremlins too with the MBs. To that end I have purchased a cheap Harbor Freight remote thermometer. It is one of those deals that can accurately sense temperature from a distance without any contact. It uses IR technology and a laser for accurate aiming. They have several types that can be had for $20-30 on sale. Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA '85 300SD Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:01:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 300SD No Longer Gutless maaco outlets do a decent job, at least the one up here does... john On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Tom Harais wrote: > -->Jerry Kaidor wrote: > --> > -->> Maybe I can get a cheap(er) paint job out there in the Valley. > -->> > -->> > -->Jerry: > --> > -->Let me know if you find anything. I've got two cars I'd like to get > -->painted. I just can't beleive what decent paint jobs cost these days. > --> > -->One of those cars I'm willing to go cheap with a Miracle or Earl Schieb. > -->But, even then I have my doubts that I'm going to get it for the advertised > -->$700 or so price. I'm sure there is a catch. > --> > -->The MB I'm willing to spend much more on. But, I'd like orginial Wurth > -->paint and attention to detail. Freinds who've had such jobs are quoting > -->mentioning $5,000 to $7,000 numbers. Sheesh! > --> > -->Tom H., '87 300 SDL > -->SF Bay Area (about 45 minutes west of Stockton) > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:44:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] road trip begins... heading out tomorrow... taking the '99 WJ... first stop most likely along I-90 in Idaho or Montana, will swing north to Glacier National Park, then back down to I-90, into WY and over to Rapid City, SD... destination is the home of the World Famous Corn Palace... by way of Wall Drug... :) Anyone along the way? email me off list at dieseljohn-at-comcast.net john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Planned Obsolescence I'm not sure why our benz's have started fluctuating... I replaced the water pump & tstat a while back... still jumps around a bit, but NEVER gets into the red, never boils over... guess I just don't want problems so I take it easy. :) Actually, we're taking the '99 Grand Cherokee... guess it's a better rig for the mountains and the midwest... tinted windows and a lot of place to put luggage without having to be organized. ;) john On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Greg Fiorentino wrote: >--> Tom Harais wrote: >--> >--> john wrote: >--> >--> did fine over the pass, but I took it easy, temp gauge >--> went higher than I like it to go... wonder how it's going to be >--> going >--> over the Rockies on our way to SD in a few weeks... >--> >--> John: >--> >--> Do you have any idea what is going on? >--> >--> My 300 SDL always ran rock solid at an indicated 85 degrees with >--> occasional runs up to 100 when it was hot, the A/C was on and it was >--> under load (like going up a pass). But two summers ago, the temp >--> gauge started being more sensitive to loads and it's steadily gotten >--> worse. Everything cooling related seems to work and I've replaced >--> the cap and thermostat and flushed the system and noticed no >--> changes. It is fine in weather less than 75 degrees and it's fine >--> most of the time in hot weather too. But, get it under load, like >--> climbing a grade in hot weather and it will climb rapidly and once it >--> does, it seem more prone to doing so for the rest of that drive. >--> It's never grossly overheated or boiled over but it does make me edgy >--> when I see that temp gauge climb above 100. It almost made 120 one >--> day on a very steep (900 feet in 1/2 mile) climb over a local hill. >--> >--> There was no noticible corrosion in the cooling system when I flushed >--> it and replaced the thermostat. After that repair with no >--> improvement, I got really paranoid about the #14 head. But, the >--> cooling system doesn't pressurize on startup although like all MBs, >--> it will hold pressure for days. And, I'm not loosing coolant. >--> Although, there was a time when every once in a while I saw a small >--> coolant level drop but I found that the top radiator hose connection >--> had an intermittent leak that I would repair and then it would come >--> back a few month's latter. Using two clamps solved that problem. ;-) >--> >--> The aux fan seems to work appropriately. The fan clutch slips when >--> cold as it should but I've never been able to tell exactly if it is >--> working properly when at 105 as it should because I lack the >--> experience to do so and it isn't often I can get it up to 105 except >--> on highway or freeway grade. The literature says you will "hear" the >--> fan moving large volumes of air when it works properly. I've tried >--> this and even shut the engine off and tried to see if there was >--> resistance in the clutch but was unsure of my own observations. >--> Right now, I'm leaning towards doing the silicone fluid replacement >--> on this original fan clutch but it's too darn hot to pull it while >--> it's sitting in the driveway. Any thoughts from this group? >--> >--> I've seen in some places, mention of the need to replace the radiator >--> if it is 7 or more years old. But, I don't see any problems with the >--> one I have and I'm loath to throw $400 worth of radiator at it >--> without know that it needs that. Other than comparing surface >--> temperature around the radiator when hot, how does one check flow on >--> an MB radiator? It's not like we have a top tank with a cap to open >--> and watch the flow. >--> >--> I've also read that the temp gauge senders are known to go out of >--> wack. On that advice, I hooked up remote BBQ thermometers to the >--> radiator and to the top coolant hose. I never observed a temp in >--> excess of 184 F on the top hose even though the stock gauge was >--> showing in excess of 100 C. Of course, I do relize tha the top hose >--> is post-raditor collant flow. I used it due to the ability to tape >--> the sending unit for the remote thermometer easily. the bottom hose >--> was more problematic. >--> >--> Tom H., '87 300 SDL >--> >-->I am experiencing some heating gremlins too with the MBs. To that end I >-->have purchased a cheap Harbor Freight remote thermometer. It is one of >-->those deals that can accurately sense temperature from a distance without >-->any contact. It uses IR technology and a laser for accurate aiming. >-->They have several types that can be had for $20-30 on sale. >--> >-->Greg Fiorentino >-->Vancouver USA >-->'85 300SD Turbo >-->'84 300D Turbo >-->'79 300TD >-->'97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab >-->No virus found in this outgoing message. >-->Checked by AVG Free Edition. >-->Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2200 **********************************