From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 7 16:36:05 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 7 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2237 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Re: [db] better electrical setup Re: [db] wagoneers.com - upgrade completed! Re: [db] Blower motor kaput Re: [db] Blower motor kaput Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:33:02 -0500 From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Ummm, didn't you need to define your variables in assembly before you used them? ;) Jim john wrote: > real programmers do it in assembly language... or vi. > we don't need no stinkin' gui... :) > > going from assembly (8080/6800) to Basic was challenging, > but going from Basic to Pascal was mind-blowing, I still > haven't recovered... never went past C... I mean, I mean, > what do you mean I have to define my variables before I can use 'em??? > > john > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > > >>--> There's nothing like an IBM i5, was iSeries, and AS/400. :-) >>--> >>-->I pick up my parts and OSs from www.compuplus.com (I have nothing to do >>-->with them). >>--> >>-->Marc Z. >>--> >>-->john wrote: >>--> >>--> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >>--> >>--> -->Jerome Kaidor wrote: >>--> -->> >>--> -->> Kevin wrote: >>--> -->> > >>--> -->> > I'd be curious to hear what it is when they fix it. A coworker has one as a >>--> -->> > weekend toy. >>--> -->> > >>--> -->> *** Web research leads me to believe that it is an electronic module. Too >>--> -->> many damn computers in cars nowadays if you ask me. And I'm a programmer! >>--> -->> >>--> -->*** I should explain exactly WHAT I don't like about all the computers: >>--> --> * Secret source code >>--> --> ( After all, mechanics and owners are too stupid to understand the magic ) >>--> >>--> no, PROGRAMMERS no longer understand the magic, ESPECIALLY those that are Microsoft >>--> certified or exclusively use their tools. The code is no longer understandable >>--> because the function libraries are so extensive, and with Microsoft visual tools >>--> all that extra stuff gets loaded, they don't optimize their code... >>--> >>--> programmers using .not exercise a click and drool process without understanding >>--> the underlying concepts or purposes... and even if they do, which only a small >>--> percentage do, they don't have much control over what gets loaded... too many >>--> lines of code, too much functionality that is unneeded or unused that offers >>--> a multitude of branches and failure points that can't possibly be tested in >>--> three person's lifetime... yet they keep adding more and more to it in the >>--> vain of marketing... meanwhile, the open source guys try to copy what they've >>--> done and are sending those apps down the same spiral... >>--> >>--> ...it's been a long day... just blue screened on a tablet that had a couple >>--> of cad apps loaded... long story... ;) >>--> >>--> --> * Fail in subtle and strange ways >>--> --> ( failures in a computers outputs can be caused by seemingly unrelated >>--> --> anomalies in their inputs. Every second Thursday. ) >>--> >>--> too many lines of code. >>--> >>--> --> * Monstrously overpriced >>--> >>--> too much marketing, FUD and fluff... care to pay $238 for a repackage of XP? >>--> amazon.com will be happy to take your money early... Vista has more dll's than >>--> xp, requires more hardware and provides less user flexibility and has a lot >>--> of really cool security pop ups that plague you when trying to install apps.. >>--> >>--> yet will still let mere mortals regedit... >>--> >>--> go figure... >>--> >>--> john >>--> >>--> --> * Mechanics change them when they can't figure out what's wrong >>--> --> >>--> -->> Looks like I shall have to take it up to Putnam in Burlingame. Even >>--> -->> though Boardwalk in RWC is closer - Boardwalk has something like 14 negative >>--> -->> reviews of the service department on Yahoo Local. Putnam has only one >>--> -->> review(yeah it's negative) of the service department :(. >>--> -->> >>--> -->> - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:35:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: > -->Ummm, didn't you need to define your variables in assembly before > -->you used them? ;) nope... did 'em on the fly... why, didn't you do it that way? ;) only opcode I can remember after nearly 30 years is 020 or NOP. :) john > --> > -->Jim > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->> real programmers do it in assembly language... or vi. > -->> we don't need no stinkin' gui... :) > -->> > -->> going from assembly (8080/6800) to Basic was challenging, > -->> but going from Basic to Pascal was mind-blowing, I still > -->> haven't recovered... never went past C... I mean, I mean, > -->> what do you mean I have to define my variables before I can use 'em??? > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> There's nothing like an IBM i5, was iSeries, and AS/400. :-) > -->> > --> > -->> > -->I pick up my parts and OSs from www.compuplus.com (I have nothing to > -->> > -->do > -->> > -->with them). > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Marc Z. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->john wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> -->Jerome Kaidor wrote: > -->> > --> --> > > -->> > --> --> > Kevin wrote: > -->> > --> --> > > > -->> > --> --> > > I'd be curious to hear what it is when they fix it. A > -->> > --> --> > > coworker has one as a weekend toy. > -->> > --> --> > > > -->> > --> --> > *** Web research leads me to believe that it is an electronic > -->> > --> --> > module. Too > -->> > --> --> > many damn computers in cars nowadays if you ask me. And I'm a > -->> > --> --> > programmer! > -->> > --> --> > > -->> > --> -->*** I should explain exactly WHAT I don't like about all the > -->> > --> -->computers: > -->> > --> --> * Secret source code > -->> > --> --> ( After all, mechanics and owners are too stupid to > -->> > --> -->understand the magic ) > -->> > --> > -->> > --> no, PROGRAMMERS no longer understand the magic, ESPECIALLY those > -->> > --> that are Microsoft > -->> > --> certified or exclusively use their tools. The code is no longer > -->> > --> understandable > -->> > --> because the function libraries are so extensive, and with Microsoft > -->> > --> visual tools > -->> > --> all that extra stuff gets loaded, they don't optimize their code... > -->> > --> > -->> > --> programmers using .not exercise a click and drool process without > -->> > --> understanding > -->> > --> the underlying concepts or purposes... and even if they do, which > -->> > --> only a small > -->> > --> percentage do, they don't have much control over what gets > -->> > --> loaded... too many > -->> > --> lines of code, too much functionality that is unneeded or unused > -->> > --> that offers > -->> > --> a multitude of branches and failure points that can't possibly be > -->> > --> tested in > -->> > --> three person's lifetime... yet they keep adding more and more to it > -->> > --> in the > -->> > --> vain of marketing... meanwhile, the open source guys try to copy > -->> > --> what they've > -->> > --> done and are sending those apps down the same spiral... > -->> > --> > -->> > --> ...it's been a long day... just blue screened on a tablet that had > -->> > --> a couple > -->> > --> of cad apps loaded... long story... ;) > -->> > --> > -->> > --> --> * Fail in subtle and strange ways > -->> > --> --> ( failures in a computers outputs can be caused by > -->> > --> --> seemingly unrelated > -->> > --> --> anomalies in their inputs. Every second Thursday. ) > -->> > --> > -->> > --> too many lines of code. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> --> * Monstrously overpriced > -->> > --> > -->> > --> too much marketing, FUD and fluff... care to pay $238 for a > -->> > --> repackage of XP? > -->> > --> amazon.com will be happy to take your money early... Vista has more > -->> > --> dll's than > -->> > --> xp, requires more hardware and provides less user flexibility and > -->> > --> has a lot > -->> > --> of really cool security pop ups that plague you when trying to > -->> > --> install apps.. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> yet will still let mere mortals regedit... > -->> > --> > -->> > --> go figure... > -->> > --> > -->> > --> john > -->> > --> > -->> > --> --> * Mechanics change them when they can't figure out what's > -->> > --> --> wrong > -->> > --> --> > -->> > --> --> > Looks like I shall have to take it up to Putnam in > -->> > --> --> > Burlingame. Even though Boardwalk in RWC is closer - > -->> > --> --> > Boardwalk has something like 14 negative > -->> > --> --> > reviews of the service department on Yahoo Local. Putnam has > -->> > --> --> > only one > -->> > --> --> > review(yeah it's negative) of the service department :(. > -->> > --> --> > > -->> > --> -->> - Jerry > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:57:41 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Yep, did assembly on punch cards running on an IBM 360 in college, early 80s. C didn't do much for me either. Why do I have to specify memory.......... On the mainframe, had to id the disk pack. Arg.... Marc Z. john wrote: > real programmers do it in assembly language... or vi. > we don't need no stinkin' gui... :) > > going from assembly (8080/6800) to Basic was challenging, > but going from Basic to Pascal was mind-blowing, I still > haven't recovered... never went past C... I mean, I mean, > what do you mean I have to define my variables before I can use 'em??? > > john > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 21:59:14 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem Not much going on with NOP, eh! :-) Marc Z. john wrote: On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: -->Ummm, didn't you need to define your variables in assembly before -->you used them? ;) nope... did 'em on the fly... why, didn't you do it that way? ;) only opcode I can remember after nearly 30 years is 020 or NOP. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:56:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > -->Yep, did assembly on punch cards running on an IBM 360 in college, early > -->80s. I worked on punched card machines and readers in the army... mid-70's... while in German I even worked on my pastor's old Mercedes... but it wasn't a Diesel... (mlc. ;) john > --> > -->C didn't do much for me either. Why do I have to specify memory.......... > --> > -->On the mainframe, had to id the disk pack. Arg.... > --> > -->Marc Z. > --> > -->john wrote: > -->> real programmers do it in assembly language... or vi. > -->> we don't need no stinkin' gui... :) > -->> > -->> going from assembly (8080/6800) to Basic was challenging, > -->> but going from Basic to Pascal was mind-blowing, I still > -->> haven't recovered... never went past C... I mean, I mean, > -->> what do you mean I have to define my variables before I can use 'em??? > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:34:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem > real programmers do it in assembly language... *** Assembly rocks. So does C. Assembly gives you just a bit more control over things. I once did a packet grabber based on a TI DSP chip. Went to the TI DSP school to learn to program it. Yes, they had a C compiler. I stood up in the ASM class and said "Well, all serious programming is done in C nowadays" :). I wound up eating my words - after due analysis, I did the whole project in assembler. The fun part was optimization - things like * Eliminating CALL statements by replacing subroutines with macros * Ordering if-then-else constructs so that the if usually passed, thereby not blowing the instruction queue * grouping instructions so that the 64-word instruction cache was maximally effective * Eliminating PUSHs and POPs for those registers which were not being used - for this subroutine, and for the subroutines that it called, and the ones that they called, and the ones that they called.... * Unrolling loops No way I could have done all that in C. - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:05:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Crazy SSR problem when I worked in flight controls and avionics the software was done in assembly because it was the most efficient way of executing code in real time... not sure what they're doing these days, jumped out of that arena in '89. john On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->> real programmers do it in assembly language... >-->*** Assembly rocks. So does C. Assembly gives you just a bit more >-->control over things. I once did a packet grabber based on a TI DSP >-->chip. Went to the TI DSP school to learn to program it. Yes, they >-->had a C compiler. I stood up in the ASM class and said "Well, all >-->serious programming is done in C nowadays" :). >--> >--> I wound up eating my words - after due analysis, I did >-->the whole project in assembler. The fun part was optimization - things like >--> * Eliminating CALL statements by replacing subroutines with macros >--> * Ordering if-then-else constructs so that the if usually passed, thereby >--> not blowing the instruction queue >--> * grouping instructions so that the 64-word instruction cache was >--> maximally effective >--> * Eliminating PUSHs and POPs for those registers which were not being >--> used - for this subroutine, and for the subroutines that it called, >--> and the ones that they called, and the ones that they called.... >--> * Unrolling loops >--> >--> No way I could have done all that in C. >--> >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 05:42:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] better electrical setup > the idea of using electric motors for final drive is great... > would lend itself to a very practical 4x4, even using existing chassis... > > I wonder if the generator would improve the mileage if it were Diesel. :) > > http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php *** Very interesting! I would wonder about the unsprung weight, and whether there's really "160HP per wheel" - seems like an awful lot. At 750 Watts per HP, that's 120,000 watts per wheel. Assuming you feed them at - say - 200V, that's 600A going to each wheel. One could always fix the unsprung weight issue by locating the motors inboard and using stubby axles & CV joints. Also, for a real roadable vehicle, I would insist on hydraulic brakes, at least as a backup. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:49:28 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] wagoneers.com - upgrade completed! >yep, just calling to see if you were in the office... you'll be happy to >know your staff did a great job in your absence, but you knew that already. ;) Cool, always nice to know that the mice are still at work while the cat is away! ;) >...so how fast were you going? ;) Very. - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 19:20:43 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Blower motor kaput John: Have you posted the sequence and photos on how to do it on yours on the server? If so, send me the URL. I think this is my winter project. Edward john wrote: >piece 'o cake... > >passenger side, a handful of screws, drops right down... >can probably replace the brushes. > >the '91 300d (124) series isn't much worse, but a >little bit more challenging. > >john > >On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > > > >>--> It is a 123. An 83 300D Turbo to be exact. >>--> >>-->Marc Z. >>--> >>-->acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >>--> >>--> Quoting paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net: >>--> >>--> What car? >>--> >>--> Subject: [db] Blower motor kaput >>--> >>--> I hope it's a W123. Blower motors are ridiculaously easy to R&R on those. >>--> MUCH easier in my 85 300D than in my current W124 300CE. >>--> >>--> Alec Cordova >>--> Taylor, Texas >>--> 89 300CE, 209K >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 16:35:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Blower motor kaput don't... looking at the tech section I really need to rework it... have homework, won't have time for a while to help with this... graduate in early 2008... can you wait? ;) john On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > -->John: > --> > -->Have you posted the sequence and photos on how to do it on yours on the > -->server? If so, send me the URL. I think this is my winter project. > --> > -->Edward > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->>piece 'o cake... > -->> > -->>passenger side, a handful of screws, drops right down... > -->>can probably replace the brushes. > -->> > -->>the '91 300d (124) series isn't much worse, but a > -->>little bit more challenging. > -->> > -->>john > -->> > -->>On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Marc Z wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> It is a 123. An 83 300D Turbo to be exact. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Marc Z. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> Quoting paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> What car? > -->> > --> > -->> > --> Subject: [db] Blower motor kaput > -->> > --> > -->> > --> I hope it's a W123. Blower motors are ridiculaously easy to R&R on > -->> > --> those. > -->> > --> MUCH easier in my 85 300D than in my current W124 300CE. > -->> > --> > -->> > --> Alec Cordova > -->> > --> Taylor, Texas > -->> > --> 89 300CE, 209K > -->> > --> > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->>** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2237 **********************************