From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 20 17:58:27 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 21 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2247 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... [db] Re: HELP!!! Leaky brakes Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... [none] [db] Re: brake fluid, etc. [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Re: Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... [db] I think we need a reality check... Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:08:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... check each wheel... jack it up... spin it, have someone hit the brakes... you may have a stuck caliper... something isn't right... john On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Yeah, but.....shouldn't it stop leaking after a few days? I keep >-->having to add more fluid to make the red "BRAKE" light go out!!! >--> >-->Help!!! >--> >-->Jason >--> >--> >-->---Original Message--- >--> >-->it's FINE... NO problem... when you replaced the pads >-->you had to push the calipers back in, you must have topped >-->off your fluid when the brake pads were thin... >--> >-->this is "normal"... >--> >-->just clean it up and carry on... (make sure the brakes work though). ;) >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >--> >-->>-->One is a 1974 240D, and one is a 1965 190 (I think.) >-->>--> >-->>-->Also, I NEED INPUT. I recently was messing around with my brakes, >-->>-->(pads, such) and now I have a fluid leak down the front of the >-->>-->booster. I noticed some fluid leaking as I pushed the calipers >-->back, >-->>-->but it hasn't stopped! WHAT'S GOING ON??? PLEASE HELP MY POOR >-->KITTY!!! >-->>--> >-->>-->Jason >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->-- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->-- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:30:54 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123...

Well, if it's leaking down the front of the booster wouldn't there need to be a failure of an o-ring or similar? Preasure buildup? I never had the master cylinder off my 240D but I know that all the vehicles that I have had the MC off there should be NO fluid around the area where the MC meets the booster.

Jim

> check each wheel... jack it up... spin it, have > someone hit the brakes... > > you may have a stuck caliper... > > something isn't right... > > john > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >-->Yeah, but.....shouldn't it stop leaking after a few days? I keep > >-->having to add more fluid to make the red "BRAKE" light go out!!! > >--> > >-->Help!!! > >--> > >-->Jason > >--> > >--> > >-->---Original Message--- > >--> > >-->it's FINE... NO problem... when you replaced the pads > >-->you had to push the calipers back in, you must have topped > >-->off your fluid when the brake pads were thin... > >--> > >-->this is "normal"... > >--> > >-->just clean it up and carry on... (make sure the brakes work though). ;) > >--> > >-->john > >--> > >-->On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > >--> > >-->>-->One is a 1974 240D, and one is a 1965 190 (I think.) > >-->>--> > >-->>-->Also, I NEED INPUT. I recently was messing around with my brakes, > >-->>-->(pads, such) and now I have a fluid leak down the front of the > >-->>-->booster. I noticed some fluid leaking as I pushed the calipers > >-->back, > >-->>-->but it hasn't stopped! WHAT'S GOING ON??? PLEASE HELP MY POOR > >-->KITTY!!! > >-->>--> > >-->>-->Jason >

------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:10:51 -0400 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] Re: HELP!!! Leaky brakes You either have a bad master cylinder(leaking out the back) OR you have damaged the reservoir or seals where the reservoir mounts to the master cylinder. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:37:22 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: HELP!!! (Was [db] 2 cute Benzes for sale in VA!) Yeah, but.....shouldn't it stop leaking after a few days? I keep having to add more fluid to make the red "BRAKE" light go out!!! Help!!! Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:51:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... *** My guess is that in the process of pad change, some large movements of the brake pedal were produced - larger than usual. And the piston moved past its usual comfort zone. Corrosion or dirt on the usually-unused part of the cylinder cut the rubber seal. So the MC needs to be re-rubbered. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >

Well, if it's leaking down the front of the booster wouldn't there need > to > be a failure of an o-ring or similar? Preasure buildup? I never had the > master cylinder off my 240D but I know that all the vehicles that I have > had > the MC off there should be NO fluid around the area where the MC meets the > booster.

Jim

> check each wheel... jack it up... spin > it, > have > > someone hit the brakes... > > > > you may have a stuck caliper... > > > > something isn't right... > > > > john > > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > > > >-->Yeah, but.....shouldn't it stop leaking after a few days? I > keep > > >-->having to add more fluid to make the red "BRAKE" > light go out!!! > > >--> > > >-->Help!!! > > >--> > > >-->Jason > > >--> > > >--> > > >-->---Original Message--- > > >--> > > >-->it's FINE... NO problem... when you replaced the pads > > >-->you had to push the calipers back in, you must have topped > > >-->off your fluid when the brake pads were thin... > > >--> > > >-->this is "normal"... > > >--> > > >-->just clean it up and carry on... (make sure the brakes work > though). ;) > > >--> > > >-->john > > >--> > > >-->On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >--> > > >-->>-->One is a 1974 240D, and one is a 1965 190 (I > think.) > > >-->>--> > > >-->>-->Also, I NEED INPUT. I recently was messing around > with my brakes, > > >-->>-->(pads, such) and now I have a fluid leak down the > front of the > > >-->>-->booster. I noticed some fluid leaking as I pushed > the > calipers > > >-->back, > > >-->>-->but it hasn't stopped! WHAT'S GOING ON??? PLEASE > HELP > MY POOR > > >-->KITTY!!! > > >-->>--> > > >-->>-->Jason > >

------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:37:40 -0700 From: "Nick Eckert" Subject: [none] Jason, It's highly likely that in disturbing the brake hydraulic system, (working on brake, bleeding brakes, etc.) you have exacerbated a degraded gasket or o-ring, that was on the verge of leaking. If your hydraulic fluid was dark before you topped it up than this the most likely culprit The first item is determine exactly where the leak is coming from. Probably the o-ring, on the piston of the master cylinder. So you leak is essentially coming from the Master cylinder. Easy to fix, purchase a new master cylinder from the trusted parts source you usually use, remove the hard brake lines from the existing Master cylinder, (make sure you use the proper wrench for this). Unbolt the 2 bolts attaching the Master cylinder to the booster, remove old Master cylinder. Reverse procedure to put the new Master cylinder on. Bleed brakes IAW workshop manual. Shouldn't take more than an hour to accomplish. Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it is far better than DOT 3 and well worth the couple extra bucks. Let me know how it goes. I will be in Virginia Thursday night through Sunday morning, then back to Everett, WA. Cheers, Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:40:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: [db] Re: brake fluid, etc. NEVER, EVER, NOHOW use DOT 5 fluids in these cars. It is a silicone base fluid that will not absorb water. Any water in the system will gather at low points. Not sure re compatibility with rubber parts of the system, either. DOT 5.1, on the other hand, is not a silicone fluid. >Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it is >far better than DOT 3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:59:21 -0700 From: "Nick Eckert" Subject: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Paul, I am sure this will create some long string of countless e-mails. I completely disagree. I have run DOT 5, in not only my 123, but also in my collection of British cars for years. No problems, and the fluid has always been crystal clear. I am a firm believer in routine maintenance and I bleed my brakes every 2 years. Cheers, Nick - -----Original Message----- From: paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net [mailto:paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:41 AM To: Nick Eckert; jasonbassett-at-juno.com Cc: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Subject: Re: brake fluid, etc. NEVER, EVER, NOHOW use DOT 5 fluids in these cars. It is a silicone base fluid that will not absorb water. Any water in the system will gather at low points. Not sure re compatibility with rubber parts of the system, either. DOT 5.1, on the other hand, is not a silicone fluid. >Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it is >far better than DOT 3 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Nick Eckert.vcf] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:25:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Re: Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123... Is this a DIY task? Are re-rubber kits available, or do I need to buy a new MC when this happens? Corrosion or dirt on the usually-unused >part of the cylinder cut the rubber seal. So the MC needs to be >re-rubbered. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:30:25 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] master cylinder leaking after pad swap, 123...

Not sure, since I have limited time but more so I'm lazy I go buy one and install.

;)

Jim

> Is this a DIY task? Are re-rubber kits available, or do I need to buy a new MC when this happens? > > > Corrosion or dirt on the usually-unused > >part of the cylinder cut the rubber seal. So the MC needs to be > >re-rubbered. >

------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] I think we need a reality check... check this out: Offbeat News Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2006 Calif. sues 6 carmakers over greenhouse gases SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed suit against Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other carmakers on Wednesday, charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of dollars. State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to hold manufacturers liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' emissions. The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of Germany's DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50900&id=2006092013200002493097 ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:39:35 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Folks - easy explanation for the DOT issue.. .The rule of thumb is - if your car does not have ABS, you CAN use DOT 5 silicon fluid, it will not affect any rubber parts, I used it in my 64 Jag after finding pits the size of peppercorns in the pistons that had sat with DOT 3 for many years, had them relined and switched to silicon, ypu see the DOT 3 is hygroscopic it absorbs moisture, which is why they recommend changing it completely every 2 years or so. IF your car has ABS, you MUST use DOT 3 or 4 due to compressibility of fluid issues. Siliconized fluid has the unusual ability of compressing a bit as the molecules draw closer together under pressure, this messes up the computer that is calculating the pulse timing and pressure on the master ABS pump, hence the manufacturers all recommend DOT 3 if your car has ABS, and yes, you should change it out every 2 or 3 years. Since your foot is doing the compressing and feedback on a non ABS car, the compressive variation in pressure that messes up an ABS computer is not an issue. Have fun, get a mityvac and do a braje job yourself on a weekend. Edward Nick Eckert wrote: >Paul, > > I am sure this will create some long string of countless >e-mails. > > I completely disagree. I have run DOT 5, in not only my 123, >but also in my collection of British cars for years. No problems, and >the fluid has always been crystal clear. I am a firm believer in >routine maintenance and I bleed my brakes every 2 years. > > >Cheers, > >Nick > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net [mailto:paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net] >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:41 AM >To: Nick Eckert; jasonbassett-at-juno.com >Cc: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: brake fluid, etc. > >NEVER, EVER, NOHOW use DOT 5 fluids in these cars. It is a silicone >base fluid that will not absorb water. Any water in the system will >gather at low points. Not sure re compatibility with rubber parts of >the system, either. > >DOT 5.1, on the other hand, is not a silicone fluid. > > > >>Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it >> >> >is > > >>far better than DOT 3 >> >> > >[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Nick Eckert.vcf] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:55:08 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. I am willing to add my $ .02 here: If you have a vehicle compatible with DOT 5 all traces of previous non-silicone based fluid should be purged before adding the DOT 5. This thread once again shows the importance of regular maintenance of the fluid: replace every year or two. That will get rid of the water gained by the hygroscopic DOT 3 or 4 fluids. I like replacing the red stuff with the blue stuff. Using the Mity-Vac it is an easy job, and easy to tell (by the color change) when all the old stuff is out. Is there red DOT 4 stuff out there for my next change? Greg Fiorentino Vancouver USA '85 300SD Turbo '84 300D Turbo '79 300TD '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Folks - easy explanation for the DOT issue.. > > .The rule of thumb is - if your car does not have ABS, you CAN use DOT 5 > silicon fluid, it will not affect any rubber parts, I used it in my 64 > Jag after finding pits the size of peppercorns in the pistons that had > sat with DOT 3 for many years, had them relined and switched to silicon, > ypu see the DOT 3 is hygroscopic it absorbs moisture, which is why they > recommend changing it completely every 2 years or so. > > IF your car has ABS, you MUST use DOT 3 or 4 due to compressibility of > fluid issues. Siliconized fluid has the unusual ability of compressing > a bit as the molecules draw closer together under pressure, this messes > up the computer that is calculating the pulse timing and pressure on the > master ABS pump, hence the manufacturers all recommend DOT 3 if your car > has ABS, and yes, you should change it out every 2 or 3 years. > > Since your foot is doing the compressing and feedback on a non ABS car, > the compressive variation in pressure that messes up an ABS computer is > not an issue. > > Have fun, get a mityvac and do a braje job yourself on a weekend. > > Edward > > > Nick Eckert wrote: > > >> Paul, >> >> I am sure this will create some long string of countless >> e-mails. >> >> I completely disagree. I have run DOT 5, in not only my 123, >> but also in my collection of British cars for years. No problems, and >> the fluid has always been crystal clear. I am a firm believer in >> routine maintenance and I bleed my brakes every 2 years. >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net [mailto:paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:41 AM >> To: Nick Eckert; jasonbassett-at-juno.com >> Cc: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: brake fluid, etc. >> >> NEVER, EVER, NOHOW use DOT 5 fluids in these cars. It is a silicone >> base fluid that will not absorb water. Any water in the system will >> gather at low points. Not sure re compatibility with rubber parts of >> the system, either. >> >> DOT 5.1, on the other hand, is not a silicone fluid. >> >> >> >> >>> Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it >>> >>> >>> >> is >> >> >> >>> far better than DOT 3 >>> >>> >>> >> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Nick Eckert.vcf] >> > > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 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