From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Oct 22 06:08:49 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, October 22 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2283 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] leaky purge pump thingy Re: [db] leaky purge pump thingy RE: [db] leaky purge pump thingy [db] using quantitative methods to decide... [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] using quantitative methods to decide... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:42:48 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] leaky purge pump thingy Having the exact same problem, only the oozing seems to come from the top or ridge of the injection pump area, then it is also wet down below the pump assy. Is the "preheater thingy" the mysterious cylindrical object bolted to the engine block below the pre-filter area? The pre-filter seems to go into this and what comes outta goes to the main spin-off filter. There are also two lines (steel) with rubber hose connectors, going to this same mysterious cylinder. 4 lines total in/out? Thanks, Edward FreddyP wrote: >Just going through this with my '91. Leaked right after shutdown, but not >while running. Big slick in the driveway, coming out of the preheater just >before the pre filter. O ring from the dealer was about 2 dollars, snap >ring and it's fixed. I jumped it so I could still drive it and it runs >fine. Probably no good in the really cold weather though. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >[mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john >Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:09 PM >To: Paul Masterson >Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] leaky purge pump thingy > > >can you tell where it's leaking? you might >want to bypass it with a piece of pipe until >you can figure it out... sounds like that little >knob assy might be the problem... > >john > > >On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, Paul Masterson wrote: > > > >>-->Diesel Benzers, >>--> My girlfriend's '84 300d has developed a nasty leak out of the purge >> >> >pump > > >>-->near the primary fuel filter. Is this the sort of thing that can be >> >> >repaired > > >>-->with an O ring? has anyone managed this? >>--> >>-->Anyone's help appreciated. >>--> >>-->Paul >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:10:46 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] leaky purge pump thingy I just replaced the primer pump on my '83 300 D Turbo sedan a couple of weeks ago. I replaced it with a new version that is all black. The old has a white know that you unscrew and the prime. The new, you jump push to prime. There is a copper washer where it screws into the fuel pump. Marc Z. Paul Masterson wrote: > Diesel Benzers, > My girlfriend's '84 300d has developed a nasty leak out of the purge pump > near the primary fuel filter. Is this the sort of thing that can be repaired > with an O ring? has anyone managed this? > > Anyone's help appreciated. > > Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:47:48 -0400 From: "FreddyP" Subject: RE: [db] leaky purge pump thingy I believe that the preheater thingy is also called fuel thermostat. Two of the lines are coolant, and the other two more obvious ones are fuel. There is an o-ring on the forward side, I picked it up today at the stealership for less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I will change it out tomorrow and hopefully I can put the fuel heater thingy back in line for the cooler weather. My Transmission is another story. Funny shifts again today, and I am anticipating that it may now mean that the '91's demise is coming soon. Maybe I should start a new thread.... Fred -----Original Message----- From: Edward Pomeroy [mailto:ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net] Having the exact same problem, only the oozing seems to come from the top or ridge of the injection pump area, then it is also wet down below the pump assy. Is the "preheater thingy" the mysterious cylindrical object bolted to the engine block below the pre-filter area? The pre-filter seems to go into this and what comes outta goes to the main spin-off filter. There are also two lines (steel) with rubber hose connectors, going to this same mysterious cylinder. 4 lines total in/out? Thanks, Edward FreddyP wrote: Just going through this with my '91. Leaked right after shutdown, but not while running. Big slick in the driveway, coming out of the preheater just before the pre filter. O ring from the dealer was about 2 dollars, snap ring and it's fixed. I jumped it so I could still drive it and it runs fine. Probably no good in the really cold weather though. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john can you tell where it's leaking? you might want to bypass it with a piece of pipe until you can figure it out... sounds like that little knob assy might be the problem... john On Fri, 20 Oct 2006, Paul Masterson wrote: -->Diesel Benzers, - --> My girlfriend's '84 300d has developed a nasty leak out of the purge pump -->near the primary fuel filter. Is this the sort of thing that can be repaired -->with an O ring? has anyone managed this? - --> - -->Anyone's help appreciated. - --> - -->Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] using quantitative methods to decide... for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) - ------------------------------------- extract from QM for Windows: sell obtain costs vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min Row Max sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 7000 sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 7000 keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 5500 minimum -4000 5500 minimin minimax The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB - ------------------------------- (If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it comes with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) - ------------------------------- trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the uncertainty of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... - ------------------------------- Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic format was suggested by my prof. Here's the scenario: 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or not buy 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I go... ;) 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this number the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the programmer favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up wrong. ;) so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to point to the recommendations above. My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then keeping the MB. I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of the GW is a major unknown... I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... ok, excellent input Paul, now, put that into QM for me, or excel... define the various probabilities and EMV... and, tell us about your latest adventure with Bambi and your '91 GW. :) john On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: >-->HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H >-->A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA >--> >-->That's my version of ROFL, when John starts talking about selling the Benz >-->(or any vehicle for that matter...). >--> >-->Oh, sorry John, the below e-mail wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops... >--> >-->So, John - just stop what you are doing right now. Breathe deep. One more >-->time, now. OK, here is how I see it and probably how it will end up (No >-->Engineering or Math required): >--> >-->You should keep the Benz and just give the '91 GW away. If you keep the >-->Benz and don't build the GW diesel, you will save money and effort because >-->what will likely happen is that as soon as you sell it (Benz), you'll miss >-->it and want it back. If you finish the GW diesel project, it will go well >-->until you have to work on the back window and then you'll say, "Now I >-->remember why I got rid of the last several GWs..." >--> >-->Paul >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:40 PM >-->To: undisclosed-recipients: >-->Subject: fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... >--> >--> for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) >--> >-->engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) >-->------------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->extract from QM for Windows: >--> >--> sell obtain costs >--> vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min >-->Row Max >-->sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 >-->7000 >-->sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 >-->7000 >-->keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 >-->5500 >--> minimum -4000 >-->5500 >--> minimin >-->minimax >--> >-->The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj >-->The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB >--> >-->------------------------------- >-->(If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to >-->get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it >-->comes >-->with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) >-->------------------------------- >--> >-->trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school >-->to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle >-->until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other >-->plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math >-->was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the >-->uncertainty >-->of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate >-->the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to >-->use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work >-->in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be >-->a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... >-->------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic >-->format was suggested by my prof. >--> >-->Here's the scenario: >--> 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) >--> >--> 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or >-->not buy >--> >--> 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days >--> xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal >--> mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I >-->go... ;) >--> >--> 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of >--> mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this >-->number >--> the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems >--> to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the >-->programmer >--> favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up >-->wrong. ;) >--> >--> >-->so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to >-->point to the recommendations above. >--> >-->My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then >-->keeping the MB. >--> >-->I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the >-->class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my >-->addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. >--> >-->Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM >-->decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how >-->to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really >-->deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use >-->these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points >-->to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there >-->will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) >--> >-->What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion >-->date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, >-->my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main >-->reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs >-->when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't >-->work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! >--> >--> >-->I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better >-->to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each >-->step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the >-->value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might >-->be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty >-->predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of >-->the GW is a major unknown... >--> >-->I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was >-->involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO >-->of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:02:33 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] using quantitative methods to decide... John, the math has no heart, no emotion. That does not work for the kind of cars we deal with...... Let's look at the facts.... you are an optimist at the high end of the bell curve, so you fully expect your new GW to be a functioning, maintenance free, fun to drive vehicle from the minute you receive it. I on the other hand take a more pessimistic view of things as the ownere of a barn full of old cars (SWMBO drives the only "new" car in the fleet) , you ALWAYS need a backup vehicle. So - my vote is to keep your MB until the GW arrives, then put it into mothballs until the GW breaks down, and presto, John will not be late to work that day. Keep on wrenching..... I am still tracking the source of the fresh diesel leak, just a drip here and there. Found the source of the loud "clunk" when turning or going aroung a sharp curve. The inner tie rod end on the LH side of the car has almost 3/8" play, I immediately parked the MB, ordered the mew part from Rusty and ........went back to driving my backup vehicle....the 97 Transport van. See, that is how it works!. Cheers, Edward john wrote: > for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) > >engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) >------------------------------------- > > >extract from QM for Windows: > > sell obtain costs > vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min Row Max >sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 7000 >sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 7000 >keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 5500 > minimum -4000 5500 > minimin minimax > >The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj >The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB > >------------------------------- >(If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to >get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it comes >with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) >------------------------------- > >trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school >to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle >until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other >plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math >was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the uncertainty >of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate >the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to >use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work >in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be >a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... >------------------------------- > > >Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic >format was suggested by my prof. > >Here's the scenario: > 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) > > 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or not buy > > 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days > xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal > mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I go... ;) > > 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of > mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this number > the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems > to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the programmer > favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up wrong. ;) > > >so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to >point to the recommendations above. > >My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then >keeping the MB. > >I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the >class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my >addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. > >Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM >decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how >to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really >deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use >these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points >to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there >will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) > >What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion >date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, >my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main >reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs >when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't >work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! > > >I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better >to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each >step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the >value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might >be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty >predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of >the GW is a major unknown... > >I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was >involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO >of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) > >john > > > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2283 **********************************