From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 23 10:23:33 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, October 23 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2286 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... [db] More Math: Set Theory [db] Re: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... [db] Re: More Math: Set Theory Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 07:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... jeeps are quite practical... try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) or driving up into the mountains in snow... or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Exactly! ;) >--> >-->Have any of us EVER seen John make a decision based >-->"stricktly" on mathmatics? No, most of his decisions >-->are based on emotion. Which one does he "like" better. >-->Not which one is most economical or practical, etc. or >-->he would never drive a Jeep! >--> >-->;) >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> john wrote: >-->> >-->> no, it can be, it will be... quantified... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> You will be >-->> absorbed....resistance is futile... >-->> >-->> Greg Fiorentino >-->> Vancouver USA >-->> '85 300SD Turbo >-->> '84 300D Turbo >-->> '79 300TD >-->> '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:28:26 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Well, I guess my point is this... If you know you need to do those things then you don't need mathmatics... You need a Jeep... ;) Jim > jeeps are quite practical... > > try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) > or driving up into the mountains in snow... > > or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. > > john > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >-->Exactly! ;) > >--> > >-->Have any of us EVER seen John make a decision based > >-->"stricktly" on mathmatics? No, most of his decisions > >-->are based on emotion. Which one does he "like" better. > >-->Not which one is most economical or practical, etc. or > >-->he would never drive a Jeep! > >--> > >-->;) > >--> > >-->Jim > >--> > >-->> john wrote: > >-->> > >-->> no, it can be, it will be... quantified... :) > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> You will be > >-->> absorbed....resistance is futile... > >-->> > >-->> Greg Fiorentino > >-->> Vancouver USA > >-->> '85 300SD Turbo > >-->> '84 300D Turbo > >-->> '79 300TD > >-->> '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... yeah, and that's quantifiable... ;) hence the dilema... want one vehicle for me, but it needs to be economical, and capable of towing 4,500lbs... I guess the math is simple... NOT EQUAL TO... :) I'm thinking that keeping the Benz makes a lot of practical sense... it's economy and reliability are overwhelming... I want an FSJ to drive... with a Diesel... I have one Diesel and two FSJs... have a good 360/4.2 and 6.2, a good 700r4, a good t-5 and a good AW4... an automatic in both FSJs is preferred. thinking this through right now... oh, btw, the '98 xj didn't work out... would have been nice... last I heard is the guy accepted his friend's offer over mine. solves a LOT of problems for me though. :) john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Well, I guess my point is this... If you know you need >-->to do those things then you don't need mathmatics... You >-->need a Jeep... >--> >-->;) >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> jeeps are quite practical... >-->> >-->> try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) >-->> or driving up into the mountains in snow... >-->> >-->> or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Exactly! ;) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Have any of us EVER seen John make a decision based >-->> >-->"stricktly" on mathmatics? No, most of his decisions >-->> >-->are based on emotion. Which one does he "like" better. >-->> >-->Not which one is most economical or practical, etc. or >-->> >-->he would never drive a Jeep! >-->> >--> >-->> >-->;) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Jim >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> john wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> no, it can be, it will be... quantified... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> You will be >-->> >-->> absorbed....resistance is futile... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Greg Fiorentino >-->> >-->> Vancouver USA >-->> >-->> '85 300SD Turbo >-->> >-->> '84 300D Turbo >-->> >-->> '79 300TD >-->> >-->> '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:59:11 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:29:26AM -0700, john wrote: > jeeps are quite practical... > > try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) > or driving up into the mountains in snow... > > or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. You need a 300TD then. With the back seats folded down and with the hatch open (and with a red flag) you could probably get the twelve footers in without a problem. They're rated pretty high with if the trailer has trailer brakes in europe. Certainly has as much utility as a cherokee, unless you want to go wheeling. 2wd in the snow isn't hideous - people back east and in Canada do it all the time. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:18:17 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Well, I still don't think it's quantifiable because of the emotional part of guys owning vehicles. But that aside you still hit the nail on the head... "NOT EQUAL TO"! ;) And I didn't need a spreadsheet to figure that out ;) Jim > yeah, and that's quantifiable... ;) > > > hence the dilema... want one vehicle for me, but it > needs to be economical, and capable of towing 4,500lbs... > > I guess the math is simple... NOT EQUAL TO... :) > > I'm thinking that keeping the Benz makes a lot of practical > sense... it's economy and reliability are overwhelming... > > I want an FSJ to drive... with a Diesel... I have one Diesel > and two FSJs... have a good 360/4.2 and 6.2, a good 700r4, > a good t-5 and a good AW4... an automatic in both FSJs is > preferred. > > > thinking this through right now... > > oh, btw, the '98 xj didn't work out... would have been nice... > last I heard is the guy accepted his friend's offer over mine. > solves a LOT of problems for me though. :) > > john > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > >-->Well, I guess my point is this... If you know you need > >-->to do those things then you don't need mathmatics... You > >-->need a Jeep... > >--> > >-->;) > >--> > >-->Jim > >--> > >-->> jeeps are quite practical... > >-->> > >-->> try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) > >-->> or driving up into the mountains in snow... > >-->> > >-->> or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->Exactly! ;) > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Have any of us EVER seen John make a decision based > >-->> >-->"stricktly" on mathmatics? No, most of his decisions > >-->> >-->are based on emotion. Which one does he "like" better. > >-->> >-->Not which one is most economical or practical, etc. or > >-->> >-->he would never drive a Jeep! > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->;) > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Jim > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->> john wrote: > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> no, it can be, it will be... quantified... :) > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> You will be > >-->> >-->> absorbed....resistance is futile... > >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> Greg Fiorentino > >-->> >-->> Vancouver USA > >-->> >-->> '85 300SD Turbo > >-->> >-->> '84 300D Turbo > >-->> >-->> '79 300TD > >-->> >-->> '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... I'm thinking of dropping the 4matic driveline in shadowfax, and then getting a greasel kit... and seeing if I can install WJ leather heated seats... think they'd fit? ANY other seats would be a massive improvement... :) the practicality of the 300D for daily commuting and the associated math, is making me rethink this plan a bit... GET THE POPCORN READY MY FRIENDS... :) john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:29:26AM -0700, john wrote: >-->> jeeps are quite practical... >-->> >-->> try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) >-->> or driving up into the mountains in snow... >-->> >-->> or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. >--> >-->You need a 300TD then. With the back seats folded down and with the hatch >-->open (and with a red flag) you could probably get the twelve footers in >-->without a problem. They're rated pretty high with if the trailer has >-->trailer brakes in europe. Certainly has as much utility as a cherokee, >-->unless you want to go wheeling. 2wd in the snow isn't hideous - people back >-->east and in Canada do it all the time. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:45:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: [db] More Math: Set Theory Hi guys, My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more you'll pay for the car :). This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of two sets: 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop running. 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop working. I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:20:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... all of these decisions ARE based on math... cost of operation, load capacity, handling, my limited resources, etc. ...but then in steps my wonderful bride and says something like: - you're NOT having four Jeeps (ok, agreed, that makes CENTS ;) - don't sell the car that gets 30mpg (yet she won't drive it, says something about her knees hitting the steering wheel, (she's not THAT tall... ;) - that is an ugly (rambo, superdawg, old wagoneer, etc.) - I'm NOT driving that thing, it's OLD, I don't trust it, I'm NOT going to be seen in THAT, it gets my clothes dirty, etc. - I don't want a Mercedes, I want MY Jeep. (the WJ is HER Jeep) so, IF there is emotion involved, it's not mine. :) However, after 31 years I listen to the voice of reason and stability. She's a class act and has done an excellent job of keeping me out of trouble and has been quite patient with me. :) The fact that she likes the little flat fender has been an added bonus. Get the POPCORN ready... with the '98 xj out of the equation I've got some ideas... :) I think I can help clean up the driveway... separate email coming... :) john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->Well, I still don't think it's quantifiable because of the >-->emotional part of guys owning vehicles. But that aside >-->you still hit the nail on the head... "NOT EQUAL TO"! ;) >--> >-->And I didn't need a spreadsheet to figure that out ;) >--> >-->Jim >--> >-->> yeah, and that's quantifiable... ;) >-->> >-->> >-->> hence the dilema... want one vehicle for me, but it >-->> needs to be economical, and capable of towing 4,500lbs... >-->> >-->> I guess the math is simple... NOT EQUAL TO... :) >-->> >-->> I'm thinking that keeping the Benz makes a lot of practical >-->> sense... it's economy and reliability are overwhelming... >-->> >-->> I want an FSJ to drive... with a Diesel... I have one Diesel >-->> and two FSJs... have a good 360/4.2 and 6.2, a good 700r4, >-->> a good t-5 and a good AW4... an automatic in both FSJs is >-->> preferred. >-->> >-->> >-->> thinking this through right now... >-->> >-->> oh, btw, the '98 xj didn't work out... would have been nice... >-->> last I heard is the guy accepted his friend's offer over mine. >-->> solves a LOT of problems for me though. :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Well, I guess my point is this... If you know you need >-->> >-->to do those things then you don't need mathmatics... You >-->> >-->need a Jeep... >-->> >--> >-->> >-->;) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Jim >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> jeeps are quite practical... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) >-->> >-->> or driving up into the mountains in snow... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Exactly! ;) >-->> >-->> >-->Have any of us EVER seen John make a decision based >-->> >-->> >-->"stricktly" on mathmatics? No, most of his decisions >-->> >-->> >-->are based on emotion. Which one does he "like" better. >-->> >-->> >-->Not which one is most economical or practical, etc. or >-->> >-->> >-->he would never drive a Jeep! >-->> >-->> >-->;) >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->Jim >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->> john wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> no, it can be, it will be... quantified... :) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> You will be >-->> >-->> >-->> absorbed....resistance is futile... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Greg Fiorentino >-->> >-->> >-->> Vancouver USA >-->> >-->> >-->> '85 300SD Turbo >-->> >-->> >-->> '84 300D Turbo >-->> >-->> >-->> '79 300TD >-->> >-->> >-->> '97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:22:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: More Math: Set Theory I don't think you're thinking fourth dimensionally... :) (to steal a line from one of my favority movies). If the car's engine SUDDENLY stopped and wouldn't crank... it's not likely the battery... although it might be, because of the no click... but if that engine SEIZED it's possible it wouldn't click either... can you turn the engine by hand? if not... it's not that bad a VW engine can be rebuilt on your kitchen counter... ;) (not mine, and no, I don't think I'll try this at home... I like being married and living in the house... ;) john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->Hi guys, >--> >--> My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him >-->that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more >-->you'll pay for the car :). >--> >--> This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down >-->the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. >--> >--> I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of >-->two sets: >--> >--> 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop >--> running. >--> 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. >--> >--> This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some >-->wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. >--> >--> He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop working. >-->I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) >--> >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2286 **********************************