From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 23 13:47:11 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, October 23 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2287 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory [db] POPCORN READY? [db] $650 300D; such a deal! Re: [db] POPCORN READY? Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory Re: [db] $650 300D; such a deal! Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... [db] Re: More Math: Set Theory Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory Re: [db] POPCORN READY? Re: [db] $650 300D; such a deal! Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:24:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... you've seen my driveway... I've had trouble getting a Quadradrive vehicle out of it in the winter!!! john On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 07:29:26AM -0700, john wrote: >-->> jeeps are quite practical... >-->> >-->> try hauling 2 yards of gravel with one of our mercedes... :) >-->> or driving up into the mountains in snow... >-->> >-->> or carrying 12 foot long 2x12s, or... well, you get the idea. >--> >-->You need a 300TD then. With the back seats folded down and with the hatch >-->open (and with a red flag) you could probably get the twelve footers in >-->without a problem. They're rated pretty high with if the trailer has >-->trailer brakes in europe. Certainly has as much utility as a cherokee, >-->unless you want to go wheeling. 2wd in the snow isn't hideous - people back >-->east and in Canada do it all the time. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:03:27 -0500 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory Couldn't lack of good oil causing something internal to sieze produce the same two conditions? Alec Quoting Jerry Kaidor : > Hi guys, > > My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him > that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more > you'll pay for the car :). > > This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down > the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. > > I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of > two sets: > > 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop > running. > 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. > > This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some > wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. > > He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop working. > I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) > > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:43:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] POPCORN READY? break out the popcorn... this talk of tailgates and state police inspections, only having ONE FSJ, emissions and daily drivers got me thinking... that and the '98 xj deal feel through for superdawg... so... Considering that the J10 stepside is way cooler than the Grand Wagoneer. And, the Grand Wagoneer is only in "good" condition. AND, the idea of putting waste veggie oil in the back of a Grand Wagoneer had me faced with some real challenges to make that work. (With the J10 it's not a problem.) The J10 won't have reclining seats, but will get the WJ seats... comfy... the J10 won't haul passengers, but that's ok, still have the WJ and the Benz, both kids are grown and gone... Just keep coming back to the idea that the J10 is way cooler. :) 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer - was going with 6.2L, but since it got delayed again, and we ran into this axle/xfr case issue... not to mention my concern about reinspection, decided to connect an AW4 to the existing 360, use the "gold-plated" adapter to mate the AW4 to an NP219 and make it driveable... won't be economical, but it'll be fun... the 4 speed automatic may actually improve it's economy a bit... So the Grand Wagoneer is getting a tranny swap basically, have a tranny waiting... getting rid of the 727 for an AW4... and hope that Jim Blair is right on the flex plate... (is a 360 internally balanced? is a 4.0L internally balanced? if so, why the need for balancing the 4.0L flex plate for the 360???? if not, makes sense. ;) May sell the GW later, or maybe I'll get a Diesel or 4.0 for it, who knows... The more I think about this, the less I like the idea of a GW... (thanx all for the reminder about the tailgate). I'll drive it, may even keep it... very interested in seeing how the AW4 will work with the 360. All that's needed to finish it is to balance the flex plate (if Jim Blair is right) and adjust the lengths of the driveshafts, estimate less than $300 to put the GW on the road... shouldn't take very long either. A lot easier to get retitled... I was concerned about the issue of putting an older engine into the GW. They did use the 6.2L up to '91, but I wasn't sure about the emissions equipment. Not a problem with Superdawg, same year, and as an extra added bonus he's exempt from emissions next year! 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside - will resume the 6.2L Diesel plans, have to figure out the xfr case and front axle issue... perhaps a late model Chevy xfr case will bolt up to the '83 700r4 and drop on the correct side. This is the one remaining issue... (was also the issue on the GW). There is another J10 that has the correct axle, and gearing, but then it disables that one... which will be fixed up later and was pretty much a gift/free anyway so disabling it shouldn't be the end of the world... and we should be able to find another axle... oh Elliott, do you still have that axle from my '75 J10??? I'm trying to get these two projects done ASAP and for as little as possible. ************************************************ QUESTION: (DOES ANYONE know if there are differences in the front axle between a WIDE TRACK CHEROKEE AND A J10? Need to know... if there is little or none, it solves a problem.) ************************************************ The GW was an unexpected entry into this equation in MAY. It's now November. I have been waiting for almost five and a half years for the J10. Have had the 6.2L Diesel parts for SuperDawg for over a year now... Just want to get the J10 finished... The quick fix on the GW will clear some space and get things rolling... I really want to finish these projects. If the J10 weren't in a million pieces I would have brought it home and finished it myself years ago... The progress on the '48 CJ-2A is doing well, received the parts needed to reassemble, should be going together very soon... have interest in the '47 CJ-2A. I think that the end result will be acceptable to my wife and makes sense... the Benz and/or the J10 as daily drivers, the WJ for her and for extended trips, the trailer for yard service and the cj-2a for the fun of it... 5 sets of wheels... technically two for me... maybe if the J10 works out real well with the WVO I could part with the Benz... but am going to wait to see how it all works out. - ----------------------------------- KEEP: - ---- 1983 J10 stepside, 6.2L Diesel, bright platinum metallic paint, WJ seats... 1948 Willys CJ-2A - KEEP, getting stock driveline... nice toy, doesn't count. ;) 1991 Mercedes 300D - KEEP for now... after a few months with the J10, might sell... 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo - KEEP - wife's Jeep/family trips 1975 Jeep J10 Bed/trailer hydraulic dump - KEEP - very useful 1991 Grand Wagoneer, 360, AW4 setup... if I like it, maybe it'll get a 6.2, or maybe it'll go away... I'm thinking as soon as SuperDawg comes home I'll be asking the GW to find a new place of residence. :) - ----------------------------------- 1947 Willys CJ-2A - FOR SALE ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:53:42 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: [db] $650 300D; such a deal! had to share; just got a letter from the Bay Area Air Quality Management District offering me $650 for my 300D, apparently just because it's 20 years old... those of you who know me and this car know what a giggle this is worth... ;-) cheers! e '85 300D B99/100 in Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:54:33 -0400 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] POPCORN READY? John, Maybe I'm having trouble letting this go... Or maybe I just wanna win ;) BUT... how is "the J10 is way cooler" quantifiable?? And here we trade something that IS quantifiable for something that's not: "won't be economical, but it'll be fun" I rest my case... ;) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:01:16 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory John and Alec pretty much went where I was going to go with it. Especially since that is how my father's super beetle got a new engine - it siezed up due to lack of proper oil. Easiest way to see if it's seized before spending a lot of money is to see if you can turn the crank by hand. You're right, this one might cost him a bit to get going again. And then, all he'll have is some old bug with a curved windshield that nobody will really think much about. Though, I suppose a voltmeter across the battery while attempting to crank will be an even easier test. K On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 09:45:37AM -0700, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > Hi guys, > > My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him > that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more > you'll pay for the car :). > > This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down > the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. > > I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of > two sets: > > 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop > running. > 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. > > This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some > wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. > > He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop working. > I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:05:09 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] $650 300D; such a deal! On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 12:53:42PM -0700, ernest breakfield wrote: > had to share; just got a letter from the Bay Area Air Quality Management > District offering me $650 for my 300D, apparently just because it's 20 > years old... those of you who know me and this car know what a giggle > this is worth... ;-) I seriously lose track of the letters I get from them trying to buy cars off me. I suppose that will change moving out of the bay area. The latest acquisition (83 cherokee) I bought from the original owner who didn't want to sell it to the state. Fortunately, the state doesn't pay enough to make it worth people's whiles :) K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:06:46 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] RE: using quantitative methods to decide... On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 10:24:08AM -0700, john wrote: > you've seen my driveway... I've had trouble getting a Quadradrive > vehicle out of it in the winter!!! Yes, your driveway almost ate my 190D's transmission :) How about a 300TE with 4matic? I have a few notes on 4matic shopping if you're interested in going down that route. K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: [db] Re: More Math: Set Theory > I don't think you're thinking fourth dimensionally... :) (to steal > a line from one of my favority movies). > > If the car's engine SUDDENLY stopped and wouldn't crank... > > it's not likely the battery... although it might be, because of the > no click... but if that engine SEIZED it's possible it wouldn't click > either... > > can you turn the engine by hand? *** Yup. Turned it with the generator belt this morning. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory > John and Alec pretty much went where I was going to go with it. Especially > since that is how my father's super beetle got a new engine - it siezed up > due to lack of proper oil. *** I thought they usually sucked an exhaust valve. > > Easiest way to see if it's seized before spending a lot of money is to see > if you can turn the crank by hand. You're right, this one might cost him > a bit to get going again. And then, all he'll have is some old bug with a > curved windshield that nobody will really think much about. *** And it's a rust bucket. Ample natural ventilation. I personally wouldn't spend a dime on it. Anyway, the engine's not seized. I expect we'll find a discharged battery, due to an inop generator or regulator - maybe worn brushes, or a bad wire or a bad ground return. I once bought an inop VW bus for parts. My wife had the bright idea of getting my mother-in-law out there with her AAA card to have it towed to our house. In the meantime, I tried cleaning the battery connections. The AAA man showed up, tried the key - and it started right up. He watched while I stuffed my mother-in-law in, and we drove off. The battery connections had gone straight from "works OK" to "so high resistance that it didn't even click". My mother-in-law was NOT happy having to climb into that thing. Though, I > suppose > a voltmeter across the battery while attempting to crank will be an even > easier > test. *** Or my nifty digital battery load tester. $35 at the Harbor Freight. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > K > > On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 09:45:37AM -0700, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him >> that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more >> you'll pay for the car :). >> >> This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down >> the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. >> >> I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of >> two sets: >> >> 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop >> running. >> 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. >> >> This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some >> wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. >> >> He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop >> working. >> I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:38:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] POPCORN READY? On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->John, >--> >--> Maybe I'm having trouble letting this go... Or maybe >-->I just wanna win ;) >--> >--> BUT... how is "the J10 is way cooler" quantifiable?? easy, it's coolness factor is an astounding 10/10 while the GW is merely about a 7/10. >--> And here we trade something that IS quantifiable for >-->something that's not: "won't be economical, but it'll be fun" oh yes, the fun quotient, first developed by VW engineers with their Fahrevgutenburggenuggie factor... how could you forget that factor? it has a weight of .95! >-->I rest my case... yeah, it was pretty tired. ;) john >--> >-->;) >--> >-->Jim >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] $650 300D; such a deal! On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, ernest breakfield wrote: >-->had to share; just got a letter from the Bay Area Air Quality Management >-->District offering me $650 for my 300D, apparently just because it's 20 >-->years old... those of you who know me and this car know what a giggle >-->this is worth... ;-) >-->cheers! >-->e >-->'85 300D >-->B99/100 in Berkeley I think we need a bit more "local" information to understand this... are they trying to buy you out, did they wreck your benz or are they giving you an award for being so ecologically minded? if they're trying to buy you out, I'll double their offer... :) that engine alone is worth more than twice that amount... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] More Math: Set Theory On Mon, 23 Oct 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->John and Alec pretty much went where I was going to go with it. Especially >-->since that is how my father's super beetle got a new engine - it siezed up >-->due to lack of proper oil. >--> >-->Easiest way to see if it's seized before spending a lot of money is to see >-->if you can turn the crank by hand. You're right, this one might cost him >-->a bit to get going again. And then, all he'll have is some old bug with a >-->curved windshield that nobody will really think much about. Though, I suppose >-->a voltmeter across the battery while attempting to crank will be an even easier >-->test. getting a voltmeter out is easier than lifting the trunk lid and turning the engine by hand? :) maybe for you, but I'd have to go looking for mine first... john >--> >-->K >--> >-->On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 09:45:37AM -0700, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->> Hi guys, >-->> >-->> My son just received a free Super Beetle. I tried to explain to him >-->> that there are no free cars, and the less you pay for the car, the more >-->> you'll pay for the car :). >-->> >-->> This car's engine just stopped as the former owner was driving down >-->> the street. Now it won't even crank. Not even a click. >-->> >-->> I explained to my son that he needed to consider the intersection of >-->> two sets: >-->> >-->> 1. The set of things that will make a currently running engine stop >-->> running. >-->> 2. The set of things that will cause a car not to crank. >-->> >-->> This set is quite small, and consists basically of the battery, some >-->> wires and connections, and maybe the ignition switch. >-->> >-->> He then asked how a perfectly good battery could suddenly stop working. >-->> I answered "Everything works until it stops working". :) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2287 **********************************