From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Oct 31 14:46:59 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, October 31 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2294 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Value of cars RE: [db] Value of cars RE: [db] Value of cars Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:02:17 -0800 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars >Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady... Ah, different animal! You originally said "450sl" not "450SEL". Those are two very different machines. The SL is a 2 seater "sports car" (really a Gran Tourismo car) and the SEL is a big sedan, akin IIRC to the 300SDL except with a big gasoline V8 instead of a straight-six Diesel. - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars see, so my earlier comments about the 450SEL stand... :) it does not have the value of the SL, is thirsty and prone to a number of issues resulting from neglect, would have to see pictures... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html (pictures of mine somewhere on that page) john On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->>Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady... > --> > -->Ah, different animal! You originally said "450sl" not "450SEL". Those are > -->two very different machines. The SL is a 2 seater "sports car" (really a > -->Gran Tourismo car) and the SEL is a big sedan, akin IIRC to the 300SDL > -->except with a big gasoline V8 instead of a straight-six Diesel. > --> > -->-- > -->--chuck goolsbee > -->02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD > -->arlington, wa, usa > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:19:25 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars what is the "asking price"? remember the fuel economy is about 16mpg at best... accelerates like a '68 Mustang with a 289... handles well for it's size, cruises comfortably at triple digits with the sunroof open... :) watch for rust... if this is a mid-70s vintage that could be an issue. john On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady...that's why it's >-->underpriced. She has no idea what it's worth, apparently, because she >-->said she'd "play ball" on the price. >--> >-->Tomorrow I will get more details on it, and maybe see if it can become >-->a quick cash project aka become a one-shot car dealership! >--> >-->I'm sure it has been well-maintained, because it just got a fuel pump >-->and something else. I'll check. >--> >-->Once I have details, just convince me of it's value, and I'll do what >-->I can. >--> >-->Jason >-->"You guys rule!" >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:37:18 -0500 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... A 450SEL with a CIS-injected 4.5 (late '70's...) won't see 16 MPG going straight down offa' cliff.....let alone actually motivating it's great bulk. If it's a mid '70's with the EFI.....it'll be even worse. My '79 SL (lighter, geared higher, etc...) has to be driven like there's an egg under the accellerator and a State Cop following you to get much better than 15-16 The 4.5 is a great motor that'll easily go 200K+ if well maintained.....but it's a gas hog....like everything else that was designed when gas was under .50/gal. Speaking of gas hogs......we won't even discuss my (Euro) '80 280SLC's R110 six-banger. Goes like stink (it'll suck the door handles off a US-spec V8 SL), makes a really nice six-cylinder growl.....but *Gawd*, does it like fuel. I'm not certain that it does much better than my V8 E350SD van. Jim Steere Crystal, MI - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars > what is the "asking price"? > > remember the fuel economy is about 16mpg at best... > accelerates like a '68 Mustang with a 289... handles well for it's > size, cruises comfortably at triple digits with the sunroof open... :) > > watch for rust... if this is a mid-70s vintage that could be an issue. > > john > > > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >-->Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady...that's why it's > >-->underpriced. She has no idea what it's worth, apparently, because she > >-->said she'd "play ball" on the price. > >--> > >-->Tomorrow I will get more details on it, and maybe see if it can become > >-->a quick cash project aka become a one-shot car dealership! > >--> > >-->I'm sure it has been well-maintained, because it just got a fuel pump > >-->and something else. I'll check. > >--> > >-->Once I have details, just convince me of it's value, and I'll do what > >-->I can. > >--> > >-->Jason > >-->"You guys rule!" > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:58:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... what would a '74 have had? seems that it was a mechanical bosch injection... I didn't keep it for long... pretty sure it actually got 16 though... I could be wrong. :) I wasn't impressed either way. john On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Jim Steere wrote: >-->A 450SEL with a CIS-injected 4.5 (late '70's...) won't see 16 MPG going >-->straight down offa' cliff.....let alone actually motivating it's great bulk. >-->If it's a mid '70's with the EFI.....it'll be even worse. My '79 SL >-->(lighter, geared higher, etc...) has to be driven like there's an egg under >-->the accellerator and a State Cop following you to get much better than 15-16 >--> >-->The 4.5 is a great motor that'll easily go 200K+ if well maintained.....but >-->it's a gas hog....like everything else that was designed when gas was under >-->.50/gal. >--> >-->Speaking of gas hogs......we won't even discuss my (Euro) '80 280SLC's R110 >-->six-banger. Goes like stink (it'll suck the door handles off a US-spec V8 >-->SL), makes a really nice six-cylinder growl.....but *Gawd*, does it like >-->fuel. I'm not certain that it does much better than my V8 E350SD van. >--> >-->Jim Steere >-->Crystal, MI >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: >-->Cc: >-->Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:19 PM >-->Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars >--> >--> >-->> what is the "asking price"? >-->> >-->> remember the fuel economy is about 16mpg at best... >-->> accelerates like a '68 Mustang with a 289... handles well for it's >-->> size, cruises comfortably at triple digits with the sunroof open... :) >-->> >-->> watch for rust... if this is a mid-70s vintage that could be an issue. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady...that's why it's >-->> >-->underpriced. She has no idea what it's worth, apparently, because she >-->> >-->said she'd "play ball" on the price. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Tomorrow I will get more details on it, and maybe see if it can become >-->> >-->a quick cash project aka become a one-shot car dealership! >-->> >--> >-->> >-->I'm sure it has been well-maintained, because it just got a fuel pump >-->> >-->and something else. I'll check. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Once I have details, just convince me of it's value, and I'll do what >-->> >-->I can. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Jason >-->> >-->"You guys rule!" >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:30:20 -0500 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... '74 woulda' been the EFI system.......actually....kinda' like (read:vaguely......in a LOW tech sorta' way) the Bosch MPFI systems used on, for instance, 5.0 HO Mustangs (and Explorers...got one of those, too....and yes, I've tampered with it). A really simple system at heart.....injectors were triggered by a set of quad points (Yes...points. Four non-adjustable sets of 'em. Do you know what one of these old dinosaurs runs like with a bad distributor shaft seal? I do....) under the distributor's "ignition" point plate, but fuel mixture (load) was entirely dictated by manifold vacuum....because no-one had invented an 'oxygen sensor' yet. The idea and theory was great......they just didn't have all the cool stuff they do now to accurately control A/F mixture. They were hideously rich under accelleration......and on a light load/high speed-rpm cruise (read: high manifold vacuum) hideously lean. They also had a freakin' knob right on the computer to adjust the idle fuel mixture. A real live old 'pot' switch. Turn 'er one way....rich.....the other way...lean. Don't look for something like this on ANYTHING built semi-recently. The later CIS system is waaaay cool. No computer....all mechanical.....and surprisingly adaptable. I've built a couple of stupidly radical 4.5's for customer's SL's over the years.......the last one actually 'rump-rumped' at a 1000 rpm idle (due to some distinctly non-stock cams I had "reground" by Schneider cams....) and was about 11:1 compression. Threw the stock CIS on it (with a little voodoo).....and it flew. It did, however, have a frighteningly health appetite for expensive high octane fuel. Why I keep all this utterly useless, antique knowledge in my head I'll never know.....I guess it just won't leave. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Jim Steere" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... > what would a '74 have had? seems that it was a mechanical bosch > injection... I didn't keep it for long... pretty sure it actually > got 16 though... I could be wrong. :) I wasn't impressed either way. > > john > > On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Jim Steere wrote: > > >-->A 450SEL with a CIS-injected 4.5 (late '70's...) won't see 16 MPG going > >-->straight down offa' cliff.....let alone actually motivating it's great bulk. > >-->If it's a mid '70's with the EFI.....it'll be even worse. My '79 SL > >-->(lighter, geared higher, etc...) has to be driven like there's an egg under > >-->the accellerator and a State Cop following you to get much better than 15-16 > >--> > >-->The 4.5 is a great motor that'll easily go 200K+ if well maintained.....but > >-->it's a gas hog....like everything else that was designed when gas was under > >-->.50/gal. > >--> > >-->Speaking of gas hogs......we won't even discuss my (Euro) '80 280SLC's R110 > >-->six-banger. Goes like stink (it'll suck the door handles off a US-spec V8 > >-->SL), makes a really nice six-cylinder growl.....but *Gawd*, does it like > >-->fuel. I'm not certain that it does much better than my V8 E350SD van. > >--> > >-->Jim Steere > >-->Crystal, MI > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "john" > >-->To: > >-->Cc: > >-->Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:19 PM > >-->Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars > >--> > >--> > >-->> what is the "asking price"? > >-->> > >-->> remember the fuel economy is about 16mpg at best... > >-->> accelerates like a '68 Mustang with a 289... handles well for it's > >-->> size, cruises comfortably at triple digits with the sunroof open... :) > >-->> > >-->> watch for rust... if this is a mid-70s vintage that could be an issue. > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady...that's why it's > >-->> >-->underpriced. She has no idea what it's worth, apparently, because she > >-->> >-->said she'd "play ball" on the price. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Tomorrow I will get more details on it, and maybe see if it can become > >-->> >-->a quick cash project aka become a one-shot car dealership! > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->I'm sure it has been well-maintained, because it just got a fuel pump > >-->> >-->and something else. I'll check. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Once I have details, just convince me of it's value, and I'll do what > >-->> >-->I can. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Jason > >-->> >-->"You guys rule!" > >-->> >--> > >-->> > >-->> ---- > >-->> > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:46:18 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... way cool info... makes me glad I'm sticking to Diesels when it comes to Benz. john On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Jim Steere wrote: >-->'74 woulda' been the EFI system.......actually....kinda' like >-->(read:vaguely......in a LOW tech sorta' way) the Bosch MPFI systems used on, >-->for instance, 5.0 HO Mustangs (and Explorers...got one of those, too....and >-->yes, I've tampered with it). A really simple system at heart.....injectors >-->were triggered by a set of quad points (Yes...points. Four non-adjustable >-->sets of 'em. Do you know what one of these old dinosaurs runs like with a >-->bad distributor shaft seal? I do....) under the distributor's "ignition" >-->point plate, but fuel mixture (load) was entirely dictated by manifold >-->vacuum....because no-one had invented an 'oxygen sensor' yet. The idea and >-->theory was great......they just didn't have all the cool stuff they do now >-->to accurately control A/F mixture. They were hideously rich under >-->accelleration......and on a light load/high speed-rpm cruise (read: high >-->manifold vacuum) hideously lean. They also had a freakin' knob right on >-->the computer to adjust the idle fuel mixture. A real live old 'pot' switch. >-->Turn 'er one way....rich.....the other way...lean. Don't look for something >-->like this on ANYTHING built semi-recently. >--> >-->The later CIS system is waaaay cool. No computer....all mechanical.....and >-->surprisingly adaptable. I've built a couple of stupidly radical 4.5's for >-->customer's SL's over the years.......the last one actually 'rump-rumped' at >-->a 1000 rpm idle (due to some distinctly non-stock cams I had "reground" by >-->Schneider cams....) and was about 11:1 compression. Threw the stock CIS on >-->it (with a little voodoo).....and it flew. It did, however, have a >-->frighteningly health appetite for expensive high octane fuel. >--> >-->Why I keep all this utterly useless, antique knowledge in my head I'll never >-->know.....I guess it just won't leave. >--> >-->Jim >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "Jim Steere" >-->Cc: >-->Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:58 PM >-->Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... >--> >--> >-->> what would a '74 have had? seems that it was a mechanical bosch >-->> injection... I didn't keep it for long... pretty sure it actually >-->> got 16 though... I could be wrong. :) I wasn't impressed either way. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Jim Steere wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->A 450SEL with a CIS-injected 4.5 (late '70's...) won't see 16 MPG >-->going >-->> >-->straight down offa' cliff.....let alone actually motivating it's great >-->bulk. >-->> >-->If it's a mid '70's with the EFI.....it'll be even worse. My '79 SL >-->> >-->(lighter, geared higher, etc...) has to be driven like there's an egg >-->under >-->> >-->the accellerator and a State Cop following you to get much better than >-->15-16 >-->> >--> >-->> >-->The 4.5 is a great motor that'll easily go 200K+ if well >-->maintained.....but >-->> >-->it's a gas hog....like everything else that was designed when gas was >-->under >-->> >-->.50/gal. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Speaking of gas hogs......we won't even discuss my (Euro) '80 280SLC's >-->R110 >-->> >-->six-banger. Goes like stink (it'll suck the door handles off a >-->US-spec V8 >-->> >-->SL), makes a really nice six-cylinder growl.....but *Gawd*, does it >-->like >-->> >-->fuel. I'm not certain that it does much better than my V8 E350SD van. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Jim Steere >-->> >-->Crystal, MI >-->> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->> >-->From: "john" >-->> >-->To: >-->> >-->Cc: >-->> >-->Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:19 PM >-->> >-->Subject: RE: [db] Value of cars >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> what is the "asking price"? >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> remember the fuel economy is about 16mpg at best... >-->> >-->> accelerates like a '68 Mustang with a 289... handles well for it's >-->> >-->> size, cruises comfortably at triple digits with the sunroof open... >-->:) >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> watch for rust... if this is a mid-70s vintage that could be an >-->issue. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->Actually, the 450SEL is owned by an old lady...that's why it's >-->> >-->> >-->underpriced. She has no idea what it's worth, apparently, >-->because she >-->> >-->> >-->said she'd "play ball" on the price. >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->Tomorrow I will get more details on it, and maybe see if it can >-->become >-->> >-->> >-->a quick cash project aka become a one-shot car dealership! >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->I'm sure it has been well-maintained, because it just got a fuel >-->pump >-->> >-->> >-->and something else. I'll check. >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->Once I have details, just convince me of it's value, and I'll do >-->what >-->> >-->> >-->I can. >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->Jason >-->> >-->> >-->"You guys rule!" >-->> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->> >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html >-->** >-->> >-->>-->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2294 **********************************