From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 1 16:02:57 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 1 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2296 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... Re: [db] heated washer and alternate fuel? Re: [db] heated washer and alternate fuel? [db] 450SEL Re: [db] 450SEL Re: [db] 450SEL [db] OK, OK, I give. Re: [db] 450SEL Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:33:59 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 4.5 V8 drivel/MB gas guzzlers... I've experimented around with Ram air systems on a variety of Diesels. (normally aspirated) I've found that the German Diesels do not benefit, especially VW and Benz. On the other hand, an american Diesel like a 5.7 or 6.2 benefits immensely. My '80 olds 5.7 went from about 22 seconds down to 19 seconds with a dual ram air system, and mileage went from 19 to 22. john On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Yah, it's a 450SEL alright, thought that was what I said to begin >-->with. It's not a '74, though; it's a '79. Don't know what that makes >-->the motor, but I will get more details today. >--> >-->BTW, what would be the downside of making myself a ram-air system out >-->of dryer vent pipe? (Other than the "ugly" factor?) My Kitty (81/83 >-->240D) goes rather rich uphill at speed....a bit more air would push >-->her right down the road! I figure bolting a 2' straight section to the >-->passenger side of the hood, cutting a hole behind it to run a flexible >-->section down and into the filter housing. (There's lots of room in the >-->engine compartment on that side anyhow.) I doubt that something that >-->simple could push that engine too hard......it's stout...... >--> >-->Later >--> >-->Jason >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:55:32 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] heated washer and alternate fuel? one thing if it is drawing back into the cooling system is I won't have any bugs stuck to things... :) I've got a final this weekend, won't be able to fix this until Sunday after church. I have a feeling this has been an issue since I've had the car, so no panic, no rush, no danger... so long as I don't hit the squirter until sealing the tank and bypassing the heating coil... :) john On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: >-->John: >--> >-->Take a look in the reservoir. On my 124 the coil seems to be suspended >-->between two rubber or plastic hoses that then join back up to the metal >-->pipes coming from the block somewhere after passing through the walls of >-->the reservoir(I/O for the heated coolant line). Seems to me your problem >-->is either a hole in the spiral metal tube (unlikely) or split plastic >-->tube. What I don4t understand is that your cooling system should be >-->pumping the reservoir full when hot and then sucking it back out when >-->cold?? Just like the normal overflow tank. The bypass does seem to be the >-->sures fix, then check your coolant density mixture. >--> >-->Edward >--> >-->> It's possible that the reservoir is leaking... I don't use >-->> my washers very often... bypassing that heater sounds >-->> like a good idea... if the weather requires heated fluid >-->> I'll be driving a Jeep anyway. :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->> >-->>>-->If yours is like my 89 W124 coupe, and I would suspect that it is, the >-->>> unit >-->>>-->to heat the washer fluid is classically overengineered. It's a section >-->>> of >-->>>-->metal tubing submerged in the washer fluid reservoir with a plastic >-->>> section >-->>>-->at the bottom, and attached to the engine cooling system with thin >-->>> hoses. If >-->>>-->desired, you can just dig something up around the garage to connect >-->>> the two >-->>>-->hoses, bypassing the metal portion. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->I can't seem to find the part on Rusty's site, but I think it was one >-->>> of >-->>>-->those one or two hundred dollar jobbies to replace the metal (and >-->>>-->overengineered plastic that I couldn't quite figure out) part. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Alec >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Quoting john : >-->>>--> >-->>>-->> hit my windshield washer by mistake this evening... (went to >-->>>-->> turn the fog lights off and pushed in on the stalk, that's how >-->>>-->> you turn 'em off on the WJ... :) Anyway, wiper went and >-->>>-->> totally obscured my vision... ok... that's not good... ran >-->>>-->> the wiper more... yuck... total blur... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> got into the driveway without getting creamed, got down the hill, >-->>> got out, >-->>>-->> touched the wiper and it felt like antifreeze... sticky... >-->>>-->> looked in the windshield washer reservoir and it was way down... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> So the question (yes there is one coming) is if the heater element >-->>>-->> in the washer is leaking antifreeze, exactly how much of the car >-->>>-->> am I going to have to take apart and what kind of credit line should >-->>>-->> I acquire to get the parts? :) Guess I should check the >-->>> reservoir >-->>>-->> in the morning... not going to be fun since it's been 25 degrees in >-->>>-->> the morning... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> oh, yeah, alternate fuel... got a mailer from my favorite mcparts >-->>> store, >-->>>-->> schucks, they've got shell motor oil on sale... .59/qt after >-->>> rebate... >-->>>-->> hmmmm... 4 times .59 equals $2.36... my last tank of Diesel set >-->>>-->> me back $2.70. Ok, so it's a little thicker than Diesel, but it >-->>>-->> is cheaper... ;) And yes, it WILL work, been there, done that... >-->>>-->> got myself off the Hewitt Ave Trestle (US2) with a 1/2 Qt of motor >-->>>-->> oil when I ran out of Diesel a few years back... :) >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> ok, back to homework... final this weekend... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> john >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> ---- >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->>>-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html >-->>> ** >-->>>-->> >-->>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net Subject: Re: [db] heated washer and alternate fuel? John: Take a look in the reservoir. On my 124 the coil seems to be suspended between two rubber or plastic hoses that then join back up to the metal pipes coming from the block somewhere after passing through the walls of the reservoir(I/O for the heated coolant line). Seems to me your problem is either a hole in the spiral metal tube (unlikely) or split plastic tube. What I don4t understand is that your cooling system should be pumping the reservoir full when hot and then sucking it back out when cold?? Just like the normal overflow tank. The bypass does seem to be the sures fix, then check your coolant density mixture. Edward > It's possible that the reservoir is leaking... I don't use > my washers very often... bypassing that heater sounds > like a good idea... if the weather requires heated fluid > I'll be driving a Jeep anyway. :) > > john > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, acordova-at-texas.net wrote: > >>-->If yours is like my 89 W124 coupe, and I would suspect that it is, the >> unit >>-->to heat the washer fluid is classically overengineered. It's a section >> of >>-->metal tubing submerged in the washer fluid reservoir with a plastic >> section >>-->at the bottom, and attached to the engine cooling system with thin >> hoses. If >>-->desired, you can just dig something up around the garage to connect >> the two >>-->hoses, bypassing the metal portion. >>--> >>-->I can't seem to find the part on Rusty's site, but I think it was one >> of >>-->those one or two hundred dollar jobbies to replace the metal (and >>-->overengineered plastic that I couldn't quite figure out) part. >>--> >>-->Alec >>--> >>-->Quoting john : >>--> >>-->> hit my windshield washer by mistake this evening... (went to >>-->> turn the fog lights off and pushed in on the stalk, that's how >>-->> you turn 'em off on the WJ... :) Anyway, wiper went and >>-->> totally obscured my vision... ok... that's not good... ran >>-->> the wiper more... yuck... total blur... >>-->> >>-->> got into the driveway without getting creamed, got down the hill, >> got out, >>-->> touched the wiper and it felt like antifreeze... sticky... >>-->> looked in the windshield washer reservoir and it was way down... >>-->> >>-->> So the question (yes there is one coming) is if the heater element >>-->> in the washer is leaking antifreeze, exactly how much of the car >>-->> am I going to have to take apart and what kind of credit line should >>-->> I acquire to get the parts? :) Guess I should check the >> reservoir >>-->> in the morning... not going to be fun since it's been 25 degrees in >>-->> the morning... >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> oh, yeah, alternate fuel... got a mailer from my favorite mcparts >> store, >>-->> schucks, they've got shell motor oil on sale... .59/qt after >> rebate... >>-->> hmmmm... 4 times .59 equals $2.36... my last tank of Diesel set >>-->> me back $2.70. Ok, so it's a little thicker than Diesel, but it >>-->> is cheaper... ;) And yes, it WILL work, been there, done that... >>-->> got myself off the Hewitt Ave Trestle (US2) with a 1/2 Qt of motor >>-->> oil when I ran out of Diesel a few years back... :) >>-->> >>-->> ok, back to homework... final this weekend... >>-->> >>-->> john >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> ---- >>-->> >>-->> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >>-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >>-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html >> ** >>-->> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> >>-->> >>--> >>--> >>--> >>--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:14:12 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] 450SEL Howdy doody, all you peoples. (AYPs) Looked at the 450SEL again today. Wouldn't you know it? Someone else apparently got involved; now the asking price is down to $4,500, and [news flash!!] it actually IS a '74. (Leave it to a grandma to make a "4" look like a "9." Oh well.) There is some rust in the front fenderwells where the spray hits it, and a touch under the body there too. There is a rust-out in a body panel on the passenger side there. Nothing that looks like it couldn't be patched up fairly quickly and thoroughly, though. IIW, nothing I'm worried about. Maybe I should be though. Who knows....you do! I dunno...at that mileage and price, I don't think I could make money on it, even though it is a classic in fairly nice condition. Maybe I could....I dunno, but is it something worth attempting? Who knows...maybe I'd want to keep it. What's it really worth, and is there any way to up the mileage? External over/underdrive unit and/or different rear end? Carb lean-out? You guys are genius in listed form...... Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:42:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 450SEL I sold my '74 about 12 years ago for about $1,700... and there was NO rust... and it ran well... At $4,500 I would run... far and fast... take that money, add a bit to it and buy a 124. john On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Howdy doody, all you peoples. (AYPs) Looked at the 450SEL again today. >-->Wouldn't you know it? Someone else apparently got involved; now the >-->asking price is down to $4,500, and [news flash!!] it actually IS >-->a '74. (Leave it to a grandma to make a "4" look like a "9." Oh well.) >--> >-->There is some rust in the front fenderwells where the spray hits it, >-->and a touch under the body there too. There is a rust-out in a body >-->panel on the passenger side there. Nothing that looks like it couldn't >-->be patched up fairly quickly and thoroughly, though. IIW, nothing I'm >-->worried about. Maybe I should be though. Who knows....you do! >--> >-->I dunno...at that mileage and price, I don't think I could make money >-->on it, even though it is a classic in fairly nice condition. Maybe I >-->could....I dunno, but is it something worth attempting? >--> >-->Who knows...maybe I'd want to keep it. What's it really worth, and is >-->there any way to up the mileage? External over/underdrive unit and/or >-->different rear end? Carb lean-out? >--> >-->You guys are genius in listed form...... >--> >-->Jason >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:49:17 -0500 From: "Jim Steere" Subject: Re: [db] 450SEL Jason.....I hate to rain on your parade.....but that's waaaaay too much money. $4500 is simply off the radar screen. For that kind of money you could buy a semi-tacky (but restorable) SL roadster of the same year. Those old 'S' class sedans are known rustbuckets (if you can 'see' rust....there's a bunch....trust me)....and for some odd reason...just not very valuable.....even when they're 'nice'. A year ago I bought a '78 with less than 100K miles, all records, mint interior, no rust and faded (but 100% original paint).....for a grand. Flew to S.C. , drove it back at about 90 mph....with the A/C on......and parted it. Put the CIS 4.5 engine in a customer's SL, sold the front seats on eBay....and the entire remainder went to the crusher. There 's NOTHING you can do to that old EFI 4.5 to make it get better mileage than it will after a $400-$800 (assuming it's 100% mechanically) tune-up other than park it. It is....what it is. The older EFI 4.5's are worth even less than the later CIS ones. I just sent two rusty pre'77 SL's to aforementioned crusher and drove both of them on the hauler. There's just no market for those. If you're really in car lust (and I've been there) offer 'em about 1500. Then run.....don't walk. Someday, you'll be glad. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:14 PM Subject: [db] 450SEL > Howdy doody, all you peoples. (AYPs) Looked at the 450SEL again today. > Wouldn't you know it? Someone else apparently got involved; now the > asking price is down to $4,500, and [news flash!!] it actually IS > a '74. (Leave it to a grandma to make a "4" look like a "9." Oh well.) > > There is some rust in the front fenderwells where the spray hits it, > and a touch under the body there too. There is a rust-out in a body > panel on the passenger side there. Nothing that looks like it couldn't > be patched up fairly quickly and thoroughly, though. IIW, nothing I'm > worried about. Maybe I should be though. Who knows....you do! > > I dunno...at that mileage and price, I don't think I could make money > on it, even though it is a classic in fairly nice condition. Maybe I > could....I dunno, but is it something worth attempting? > > Who knows...maybe I'd want to keep it. What's it really worth, and is > there any way to up the mileage? External over/underdrive unit and/or > different rear end? Carb lean-out? > > You guys are genius in listed form...... > > Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:12:11 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] OK, OK, I give. OK, the voice of reason as usual you are. No 450$EL'$ for me.....but it is purdy........ What about the 280SEL or whatever it was? Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:21:24 -0600 From: tom savage Subject: Re: [db] 450SEL jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > I dunno...at that mileage and price, I don't think I could make money > on it, even though it is a classic in fairly nice condition. Maybe I > could....I dunno, but is it something worth attempting? Jason, Sounds like a real Pandora's Box. W116s are masters at hiding rust; there is at least triple the amount of visible rust lurking below the surface. W116s are wonderful and vastly underappreciated cars, but a rustbucket example is better suited as a parts car. For $1000, it might make a nice old car to tool around in, but never a car worth restoring. My first Mercedes was a red '76 450SEL, a zero-rust Texas car with a documented 58k miles purchased for $4000 in 1998 when gas was 89 cents a gallon. Averaged 14mpg, but once eked out 20mpg at a steady 55mph. Sold it a year later for $5500. Wish I still had it. Nice examples are out there, and when they're nice, they're *NICE*, but there is just no upper limit to the mental and financial anguish awaiting you in a rusty or abused example. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:02:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Jason, One word of advice... stick to the Diesel variations of Mercedes... unless you want to get one of those snazzy two-seater type SLs, steer clear of the gassers... (what other advice could you expect from the founder of the Diesel-Benz list anyway? :) john On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->OK, the voice of reason as usual you are. No 450$EL'$ for me.....but >-->it is purdy........ >--> >-->What about the 280SEL or whatever it was? >--> >-->Jason >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2296 **********************************