From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Nov 3 02:36:12 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, November 3 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2298 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Volvo Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] Stalling problem. Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:40:11 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: [db] Stalling problem. Diesels aren't supposed to stall. But my 190 has this new habit. When the fuel gets below 1/4 tank, it stalls out, as in found on road, dead. Filters replaced. Injectors and return lines are new. When I disconnect the hose at the bottom of the tank, there is strong flow, indicating the screen is clear. What gives? Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:00:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. I haven't pulled the tank apart on a 190, but did on my 126... could it be something in the float/pickup in the tank? is the 190 kind of a gravity setup like the 124? would almost seem like it's beings stopped up or not enough pressure... when it stalls have you disconnected at the primary filter, or after it so see if there is any air in the line? john On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Michael Frank wrote: > -->Diesels aren't supposed to stall. But my 190 has this new habit. When the > -->fuel gets below 1/4 tank, it stalls out, as in found on road, dead. Filters > -->replaced. Injectors and return lines are new. When I disconnect the hose at > -->the bottom of the tank, there is strong flow, indicating the screen is > -->clear. What gives? > --> > -->Mike Frank > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 15:58:23 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. If this was a 124, I'd tell you that your return line to tank and tank to fuel filter lines are swapped, since the return line doesn't go to the bottom of the tank like the draw line does. This would happen right around a quarter tank. K On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 06:40:11PM -0500, Michael Frank wrote: > Diesels aren't supposed to stall. But my 190 has this new habit. When > the fuel gets below 1/4 tank, it stalls out, as in found on road, > dead. Filters replaced. Injectors and return lines are new. When I > disconnect the hose at the bottom of the tank, there is strong flow, > indicating the screen is clear. What gives? > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. well, there are a LOT of things common to the 201 and the 124 in the Diesel world... for instance the trans in my 124 is the same one as in a 201... other parts show up as 201... so the fuel system could be the same. Question immediately comes to mind then, WHO WAS MESSING WITH THE FUEL LINES? Mike, have you had this car a while? Did anyone do work on it recently? I wonder if a return line might not be clogged... I think we can safely assume that Ockham's Razor will be in full effect here and that this will not be a costly fix. :) john On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->If this was a 124, I'd tell you that your return line to tank and tank to >-->fuel filter lines are swapped, since the return line doesn't go to the bottom >-->of the tank like the draw line does. This would happen right around a >-->quarter tank. >--> >-->K >--> >-->On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 06:40:11PM -0500, Michael Frank wrote: >-->> Diesels aren't supposed to stall. But my 190 has this new habit. When >-->> the fuel gets below 1/4 tank, it stalls out, as in found on road, >-->> dead. Filters replaced. Injectors and return lines are new. When I >-->> disconnect the hose at the bottom of the tank, there is strong flow, >-->> indicating the screen is clear. What gives? >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:11:36 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. Not the 124 problem, because it's a case of sudden onset...it was working fine, then it wasn't. When it stalls, the primary filter is full. If I pull it, the tank connection doesn't spurt, indicating that the level in the tank is below that level. Adding as little as a gallon will make it work, and on a full tank it's flawless. I'm wondering if the lift pump has something to do with this. It's just an expensive part to replace on a hunch. I may try bypassing the fuel heater, maybe that's blocked. Mike Frank At 07:00 PM 11/2/2006, you wrote: >I haven't pulled the tank apart on a 190, but did on my 126... could >it be something in the float/pickup in the tank? > >is the 190 kind of a gravity setup like the 124? > >would almost seem like it's beings stopped up or not enough pressure... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:39:53 -0600 From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: Re: [db] Volvo Its been a while since I was messing with the VWs. I like the volvo wagons too. My college friends made fun of my wagons until they needed to haul something. Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Black, Waylon" To: Subject: Re: [db] Volvo Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:08:14 -0500 >Close - 6 cylinder. While a 5 cylinder is listed in the repair manuals, >I have never seen one. I own a few Volvo diesel wagons. > >What started life as a great 4 cylinder(1.5/1.6), grew to a good 5 >cylinder(2.0 - Audi) and a 'needs a little help' 6 cylinder(Volvo). >Sound familiar? > >A man in Maine(Tom Bryant) rebuilds these and offers a 100,000 mile >warranty. The problems is the engines do not like neglect and by the >time you get the car, the damage is done. You would be much happier with >the 103 hp version in the 740 turbo diesel than the 78/80 hp model you >are looking at. The 240 series and 740 series are close in weight. > >Main issue is the oil pump at the back of the engine - most problems >occur with #1 or #2 cylinder. Not such an issue when you use synthetics. > >Most Volvo diesel cars are used for V8 conversions. > >http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Volvo_200_V-8.html > >I just think Volvo wagons are neat. When mine quits - it gets a Chrysler >V8. 360 or 383/400 whichever I happen to have close. > >Waylon Black >Little Elm, Texas > >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 08:23:08 -0800 (PST) >From: john >Subject: Re: [db] Volvo > >thanx for confirming that... it is to be avoided then. > >(of course a benz driveline would fit in, then all you >have to worry about is the 8+ hrs to replace the heater core >in the volvo if it ever fails... ;) > >john > >On Sun, 29 Oct 2006, Allen Zylstra wrote: > > >-->The volvo diesel is by VW. It is a 5 cylinder version of the 1.6L >used > >-->in the rabbits and jettas. I have heard the same about the >reliablity of > >-->them. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:44:00 -0600 From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. The plastic "pickup" end fell off the tube on my F-350. That made the tube about 2 inches shorter than it should have been. Could that be the problem here? Is there a piece at the end that could have fallen off? Jim Michael Frank wrote: > Not the 124 problem, because it's a case of sudden onset...it was > working fine, then it wasn't. > > When it stalls, the primary filter is full. If I pull it, the tank > connection doesn't spurt, indicating that the level in the tank is below > that level. Adding as little as a gallon will make it work, and on a > full tank it's flawless. I'm wondering if the lift pump has something to > do with this. It's just an expensive part to replace on a hunch. I may > try bypassing the fuel heater, maybe that's blocked. > > Mike Frank > > At 07:00 PM 11/2/2006, you wrote: > >> I haven't pulled the tank apart on a 190, but did on my 126... could >> it be something in the float/pickup in the tank? >> >> is the 190 kind of a gravity setup like the 124? >> >> would almost seem like it's beings stopped up or not enough pressure... > > > > - -- Jim Hoffman Oconomowoc, WI '39 Allis Model B '53 Ford Golden Jubilee '?? Bolens Huskie Gardener '94 Ford F-350 7.3l IDI Turbo Diesel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:53:53 -0500 (EST) From: ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Have been down in Chile (South America) for the last 10 days working. The Musso has been replaced with the Ssangyong REXXON and it looks even better than the Musso. Never imported to the US officially which is a damned pity, with the MB 2.7L diesel made in Thailand, it is one fine looking and running 4X4. Have ridden in both the Musso and Rexxon and find them comfortable and relatively quiet. Edward Maybe it's just me but I think it's a handsome looking > machine. With a diesel in it I'd drive it!!! > > :) > > Jim > >> Merc Diesels in 4x4s ... did you get the SSangYong Musso in the US? >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssangyong_Musso >> http://www.ssangyong.ie/ >> >> >> On 11/2/06, john wrote: >> > >> > not Mercedes Diesels... there were Perkins Diesels used >> > in many export models and a few domestic... mostly in the '60s. >> > >> > The only other Diesel in a production Jeep that made it stateside, >> > other than those blessed with a Perkins, were the XJ/MJs from >> > '85 -'87, and those were the Renault 2.1L all aluminum turbo Diesels. >> > >> > Actually I will have an "extra" CJ-2A if it doesn't sell... :) but >> > it all takes money and time... >> > >> > I am putting a 6.2L Diesel into my '83 J10 stepside... but if the >> > stars align just right I may end up with a Benz Diesel in an XJ as >> well... >> > >> > for now I'll be happy with the J10... :) >> > >> > john >> > >> > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 (Quadradrive) >> > 1991 Mercedes 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT >> > 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 5.9/727/np229 >> > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> 6.2L/700R4/NP 219 >> or NP >> > 208... driveline in work... >> > 1975 Jeep J10 Bed/trailer hydraulic dump >> > 1967 Jeep J100 Panel >> > 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 >> > 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >> > >> > >-->I heard that there are a bunch of Jeeps, maybe Canadian military, >> that >> > >-->have Mercedes Diesels in them from the factory. John, you seem to >> be >> > in >> > >-->love with both and keep talking about putting a MB diesel in your >> > >-->Willys. Have you heard of those before? .... Bob >> > >--> >> > >-->67 200D >> > >-->83 300D >> > >-->05 Passat Wagon TDI >> > >-->51 Willys Truck >> > >--> >> > >-->Bob Hamilton O|||||||O >> > >-->( (780) 462-0860 >> > >-->7 (780) 462-0633 FAX >> > >-->- bhamilton-at-amvic.org >> > >-->: www.amvic.org >> > >-->a www.telusplanet.net/public/bhamilt/ >> > >--> >> > >-->-----Original Message----- >> > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto: >> > owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] >> > >-->On Behalf Of john >> > >-->Sent: November 1, 2006 5:48 PM >> > >-->To: Jerome Kaidor >> > >-->Cc: jasonbassett-at-juno.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> > >-->Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. >> > >--> >> > >-->I live with the Rube Goldberg issues and Teutonic warrior seats >> > because >> > >-->of the incredible engines under the bonnet. :) >> > >--> >> > >-->someday I will transplant said engine to something nice, like a >> > Jeep... >> > >-->kind of wish I'd sync'd the 240d with the '48 cj-2a... that would >> have >> > >-->been one sweet setup. >> > >--> >> > >-->john >> > >--> >> > >-->On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >> > >--> >> > >-->>-->john wrote: >> > >-->>-->> >> > >-->>-->> Jason, >> > >-->>-->> >> > >-->>-->> One word of advice... stick to the Diesel variations of >> > >-->Mercedes... >> > >-->>-->> >> > >-->>-->*** Amen. I looked through a buyers guide - looked at the >> mileage >> > >-->>-->13, 12, 14, 15 .....25. 25? Diesel. >> > >-->>--> >> > >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:59:30 -0500 (EST) From: ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. Any chance the tank is supposed to be vented, only the vent is clogged or the line crimped? It almost sounds like you are creating a vacuum and by the time the fuel level drops to the 1/4 tank, you have enough vacuum to overcome the lift pump? Just my 2C worth from mulling over the issue. Edward > Diesels aren't supposed to stall. But my 190 has this new habit. When > the fuel gets below 1/4 tank, it stalls out, as in found on road, > dead. Filters replaced. Injectors and return lines are new. When I > disconnect the hose at the bottom of the tank, there is strong flow, > indicating the screen is clear. What gives? > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 20:59:33 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. I don't know, I've never had the tank apart. But the filter is at the very bottom, so it's not clear that this could happen. Mike Frank At 08:44 PM 11/2/2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: >here? Is there a >piece at the end that could have fallen off? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:20:46 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. Thought of that...replaced the cap. Even with no cap, it won't go without that extra gallon. I have a feeling that I'm going to end up pulling the tank. Mike Frank At 08:59 PM 11/2/2006, you wrote: >Any chance the tank is supposed to be vented, only the vent is clogged or >the line crimped? It almost sounds like you are creating a vacuum and by >the time the fuel level drops to the 1/4 tank, you have enough vacuum to >overcome the lift pump? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:07:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. I think there is a screen at the bottom of the tank and it flows out... if it's the same as the 126... that's the last time I dealt with fuel problems... had major algae issues on that one... john On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Jim Hoffman wrote: > -->The plastic "pickup" end fell off the tube on my F-350. > -->That made the tube about 2 inches shorter than it should > -->have been. Could that be the problem here? Is there a > -->piece at the end that could have fallen off? > --> > -->Jim > --> > -->Michael Frank wrote: > --> > -->> Not the 124 problem, because it's a case of sudden onset...it was working > -->> fine, then it wasn't. > -->> > -->> When it stalls, the primary filter is full. If I pull it, the tank > -->> connection doesn't spurt, indicating that the level in the tank is below > -->> that level. Adding as little as a gallon will make it work, and on a full > -->> tank it's flawless. I'm wondering if the lift pump has something to do > -->> with this. It's just an expensive part to replace on a hunch. I may try > -->> bypassing the fuel heater, maybe that's blocked. > -->> > -->> Mike Frank > -->> > -->> At 07:00 PM 11/2/2006, you wrote: > -->> > -->> > I haven't pulled the tank apart on a 190, but did on my 126... could > -->> > it be something in the float/pickup in the tank? > -->> > > -->> > is the 190 kind of a gravity setup like the 124? > -->> > > -->> > would almost seem like it's beings stopped up or not enough pressure... > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> > -->-- > -->Jim Hoffman > -->Oconomowoc, WI > -->'39 Allis Model B > -->'53 Ford Golden Jubilee > -->'?? Bolens Huskie Gardener > -->'94 Ford F-350 7.3l IDI Turbo Diesel > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:26:08 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Stalling problem. Are you sure it's not a dirty sender, and you're actually empty? K On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 09:20:46PM -0500, Michael Frank wrote: > Thought of that...replaced the cap. Even with no cap, it won't go > without that extra gallon. I have a feeling that I'm going to end up > pulling the tank. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:28:53 +0000 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Just back from 3 weeks in Brazil on Monday myself! Some interesting vehicles down there... Yeah the Rexxon is much nicer/better built, also... (John might like this one) the Korando is almost Willys Jeep/Wrangler looking. Steve On 11/3/06, ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: > > Have been down in Chile (South America) for the last 10 days working. The > Musso has been replaced with the Ssangyong REXXON and it looks even better > than the Musso. Never imported to the US officially which is a damned > pity, with the MB 2.7L diesel made in Thailand, it is one fine looking and > running 4X4. Have ridden in both the Musso and Rexxon and find them > comfortable and relatively quiet. > > Edward > > > Maybe it's just me but I think it's a handsome looking > > machine. With a diesel in it I'd drive it!!! > > > > :) > > > > Jim > > > >> Merc Diesels in 4x4s ... did you get the SSangYong Musso in the US? > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssangyong_Musso > >> http://www.ssangyong.ie/ > >> > >> > >> On 11/2/06, john wrote: > >> > > >> > not Mercedes Diesels... there were Perkins Diesels used > >> > in many export models and a few domestic... mostly in the '60s. > >> > > >> > The only other Diesel in a production Jeep that made it stateside, > >> > other than those blessed with a Perkins, were the XJ/MJs from > >> > '85 -'87, and those were the Renault 2.1L all aluminum turbo Diesels. > >> > > >> > Actually I will have an "extra" CJ-2A if it doesn't sell... :) but > >> > it all takes money and time... > >> > > >> > I am putting a 6.2L Diesel into my '83 J10 stepside... but if the > >> > stars align just right I may end up with a Benz Diesel in an XJ as > >> well... > >> > > >> > for now I'll be happy with the J10... :) > >> > > >> > john > >> > > >> > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 (Quadradrive) > >> > 1991 Mercedes 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT > >> > 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 5.9/727/np229 > >> > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> 6.2L/700R4/NP 219 > >> or NP > >> > 208... driveline in work... > >> > 1975 Jeep J10 Bed/trailer hydraulic dump > >> > 1967 Jeep J100 Panel > >> > 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 > >> > 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > >> > > >> > >-->I heard that there are a bunch of Jeeps, maybe Canadian military, > >> that > >> > >-->have Mercedes Diesels in them from the factory. John, you seem > to > >> be > >> > in > >> > >-->love with both and keep talking about putting a MB diesel in your > >> > >-->Willys. Have you heard of those before? .... Bob > >> > >--> > >> > >-->67 200D > >> > >-->83 300D > >> > >-->05 Passat Wagon TDI > >> > >-->51 Willys Truck > >> > >--> > >> > >-->Bob Hamilton O|||||||O > >> > >-->( (780) 462-0860 > >> > >-->7 (780) 462-0633 FAX > >> > >-->- bhamilton-at-amvic.org > >> > >-->: www.amvic.org > >> > >-->a www.telusplanet.net/public/bhamilt/ > >> > >--> > >> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >> > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto: > >> > owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > >> > >-->On Behalf Of john > >> > >-->Sent: November 1, 2006 5:48 PM > >> > >-->To: Jerome Kaidor > >> > >-->Cc: jasonbassett-at-juno.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >> > >-->Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. > >> > >--> > >> > >-->I live with the Rube Goldberg issues and Teutonic warrior seats > >> > because > >> > >-->of the incredible engines under the bonnet. :) > >> > >--> > >> > >-->someday I will transplant said engine to something nice, like a > >> > Jeep... > >> > >-->kind of wish I'd sync'd the 240d with the '48 cj-2a... that would > >> have > >> > >-->been one sweet setup. > >> > >--> > >> > >-->john > >> > >--> > >> > >-->On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > >> > >--> > >> > >-->>-->john wrote: > >> > >-->>-->> > >> > >-->>-->> Jason, > >> > >-->>-->> > >> > >-->>-->> One word of advice... stick to the Diesel variations of > >> > >-->Mercedes... > >> > >-->>-->> > >> > >-->>-->*** Amen. I looked through a buyers guide - looked at the > >> mileage > >> > >-->>-->13, 12, 14, 15 .....25. 25? Diesel. > >> > >-->>--> > >> > >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2298 **********************************