From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 21 06:33:48 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 21 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2248 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. Y'all are making me feel guilty... in the last 35 years I've never, ever, on any vehicle I've ever owned, replaced the brake fluid... ever. john On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Greg Fiorentino wrote: > -->I am willing to add my $ .02 here: > --> > -->If you have a vehicle compatible with DOT 5 all traces of previous > -->non-silicone based fluid should be purged before adding the DOT 5. > --> > -->This thread once again shows the importance of regular maintenance of the > -->fluid: replace every year or two. That will get rid of the water gained by > -->the hygroscopic DOT 3 or 4 fluids. I like replacing the red stuff with the > -->blue stuff. Using the Mity-Vac it is an easy job, and easy to tell (by the > -->color change) when all the old stuff is out. > -->Is there red DOT 4 stuff out there for my next change? > --> > -->Greg Fiorentino > -->Vancouver USA > -->'85 300SD Turbo > -->'84 300D Turbo > -->'79 300TD > -->'97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab > --> > -->Edward Pomeroy wrote: > -->> Folks - easy explanation for the DOT issue.. > -->> > -->> .The rule of thumb is - if your car does not have ABS, you CAN use DOT 5 > -->> silicon fluid, it will not affect any rubber parts, I used it in my 64 Jag > -->> after finding pits the size of peppercorns in the pistons that had sat > -->> with DOT 3 for many years, had them relined and switched to silicon, ypu > -->> see the DOT 3 is hygroscopic it absorbs moisture, which is why they > -->> recommend changing it completely every 2 years or so. > -->> > -->> IF your car has ABS, you MUST use DOT 3 or 4 due to compressibility of > -->> fluid issues. Siliconized fluid has the unusual ability of compressing a > -->> bit as the molecules draw closer together under pressure, this messes up > -->> the computer that is calculating the pulse timing and pressure on the > -->> master ABS pump, hence the manufacturers all recommend DOT 3 if your car > -->> has ABS, and yes, you should change it out every 2 or 3 years. > -->> > -->> Since your foot is doing the compressing and feedback on a non ABS car, > -->> the compressive variation in pressure that messes up an ABS computer is > -->> not an issue. > -->> > -->> Have fun, get a mityvac and do a braje job yourself on a weekend. > -->> > -->> Edward > -->> > -->> > -->> Nick Eckert wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > Paul, > -->> > > -->> > I am sure this will create some long string of countless > -->> > e-mails. > -->> > > -->> > I completely disagree. I have run DOT 5, in not only my 123, > -->> > but also in my collection of British cars for years. No problems, and > -->> > the fluid has always been crystal clear. I am a firm believer in > -->> > routine maintenance and I bleed my brakes every 2 years. > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > Cheers, > -->> > > -->> > Nick > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > -----Original Message----- > -->> > From: paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net [mailto:paul.h.brown-at-verizon.net] > -->> > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:41 AM > -->> > To: Nick Eckert; jasonbassett-at-juno.com > -->> > Cc: diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net > -->> > Subject: Re: brake fluid, etc. > -->> > > -->> > NEVER, EVER, NOHOW use DOT 5 fluids in these cars. It is a silicone > -->> > base fluid that will not absorb water. Any water in the system will > -->> > gather at low points. Not sure re compatibility with rubber parts of > -->> > the system, either. > -->> > > -->> > DOT 5.1, on the other hand, is not a silicone fluid. > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > Important note: Use at least DOT 4, if not DOT 5 hydraulic fluid, it > -->> > > > -->> > > > -->> > > > -->> > is > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > > far better than DOT 3 > -->> > > > -->> > > > -->> > > > -->> > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a > -->> > name of Nick Eckert.vcf] > -->> > > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> > --> > --> > -->-- > -->No virus found in this outgoing message. > -->Checked by AVG Free Edition. > -->Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/2006 > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:27:29 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] RE: brake fluid, etc. On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 05:55:08PM -0700, Greg Fiorentino wrote: > I am willing to add my $ .02 here: > > If you have a vehicle compatible with DOT 5 all traces of previous > non-silicone based fluid should be purged before adding the DOT 5. > > This thread once again shows the importance of regular maintenance of > the fluid: replace every year or two. That will get rid of the water > gained by the hygroscopic DOT 3 or 4 fluids. I like replacing the red > stuff with the blue stuff. Using the Mity-Vac it is an easy job, and > easy to tell (by the color change) when all the old stuff is out. > > Is there red DOT 4 stuff out there for my next change? A friend with an E36 M3 alternates blue and yellow dot 4. Worse comes to worse, I'm pretty sure Rusty or Randy can get it. K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have enough data to understand if there really is global warming or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to deal with this logically instead of emotionally. john On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Ed Kummel wrote: >-->Didn't we already have a lawsuit like this...and it failed? It was the fat person suing McDonalds for serving food that would make him fat... >--> >--> Ed >--> web/gadget guru >--> >-->john wrote: >--> check this out: >--> >-->Offbeat News >-->Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2006 >-->Calif. sues 6 carmakers over greenhouse gases >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed suit against Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other carmakers on Wednesday, charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of dollars. >--> >-->State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to hold manufacturers liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' emissions. >--> >-->The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of Germany's DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. >--> >-->http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50900&id=2006092013200002493097 >--> >-->---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >--> >-->Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->....when they turn out to be pretty neat. >--> >-->In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up at www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. >--> >--> - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum >--> >-->--------------------------------- >-->Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:53:28 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!" Well, not really. Agenda is right. JOHN FOR PRESIDENT!!! BTW, don't feel too guilty about not changing your brake fluid; I think that's the majority of people. Besides, you lose a lot when you have to bleed for one reason or another, and that helps. Speaking of which, I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the brakes at this point....they are working fine, and I'm not noticing as much fluid leakage....maybe the o-rings will reseat. (At least until I can figure out how to get my parts car to where I am.....) Jason - ---ORIGINAL MESSAGE--- thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have enough data to understand if there really is global warming or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to deal with this logically instead of emotionally. john On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Ed Kummel wrote: >-->Didn't we already have a lawsuit like this...and it failed? It was the fat person suing McDonalds for serving food that would make him fat... >--> >--> Ed >--> web/gadget guru >--> >-->john wrote: >--> check this out: >--> >-->Offbeat News >-->Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2006 >-->Calif. sues 6 carmakers over greenhouse gases >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed suit against Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other carmakers on Wednesday, charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of dollars. >--> >-->State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to hold manufacturers liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' emissions. >--> >-->The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of Germany's DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. >--> >-->http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp? cat=50900&id=2006092013200002493097 >--> >-->---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ >-->** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ >--> >--> >--> >-->Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... >-->------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- >-->....when they turn out to be pretty neat. >--> >-->In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up at www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. >--> >--> - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum >--> >-->--------------------------------- >-->Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. >--> ---- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 05:59:42 -0700 From: Greg Fiorentino Subject: Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... Or, how about this theory, (my personal favorite): Yes, human activity has contributed to global warming in some measure, but it is in the long run a self-regulating mechanism. The evidence for this is its cyclical nature over the millenia. Greg jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!" > > Well, not really. Agenda is right. JOHN FOR PRESIDENT!!! > > BTW, don't feel too guilty about not changing your brake fluid; I > think that's the majority of people. Besides, you lose a lot when you > have to bleed for one reason or another, and that helps. > > Speaking of which, I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the brakes at > this point....they are working fine, and I'm not noticing as much > fluid leakage....maybe the o-rings will reseat. (At least until I can > figure out how to get my parts car to where I am.....) > > Jason > > ---ORIGINAL MESSAGE--- > > thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of > the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have > enough data to understand if there really is global warming > or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. > We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in > relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? > > this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild > speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? > > let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to > deal with this logically instead of emotionally. > > john > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Ed Kummel wrote: > > >> -->Didn't we already have a lawsuit like this...and it failed? It was >> > the fat > person suing McDonalds for serving food that would make him fat... > >> --> >> --> Ed >> --> web/gadget guru >> --> >> -->john wrote: >> --> check this out: >> --> >> -->Offbeat News >> -->Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2006 >> -->Calif. sues 6 carmakers over greenhouse gases >> --> >> --> >> --> >> --> >> -->SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed suit against Ford Motor >> > Co., General > Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other carmakers on > Wednesday, charging that > greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of > dollars. > >> --> >> -->State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. >> > District > Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to hold > manufacturers > liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' emissions. > >> --> >> -->The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of >> > Germany's > DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. and > Nissan Motor Co. > Ltd. > >> --> >> -->http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp? >> > cat=50900&id=2006092013200002493097 > >> --> >> -->---- >> --> >> -->------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ------ > >> -->** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >> -->Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> -->** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html >> > ** > >> -->------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ------ > >> --> >> --> >> --> >> -->Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... >> -->------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ----- > >> -->....when they turn out to be pretty neat. >> --> >> -->In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up >> > at > www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. > >> --> >> --> - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum >> --> >> -->--------------------------------- >> -->Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! >> > Small > Business. > >> --> >> > > ---- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:30:30 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] Re: I think we need a reality check... John, So glad to hear you say this!!! The global warming 'issues' subject is one of my pet hates... ever read "State of Fear" ISBN : 0061015733 ? Worth a read, it really is... for the factual content moreso than the fictional story that accompanies it (altho, that is also a reasonably good read). This media/politically generated hype works all across the board... remember the "Killer Bees from Africa" scare in the early '80s? What happened to them?? Actually.. in the '80's I remember we were told that we were entering an Ice age!! OK, You get where I'm coming from, I'm going to end my rant before I get started or I'll ruin my day ;-) Steve On 9/21/06, john wrote: > > thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of > the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have > enough data to understand if there really is global warming > or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. > We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in > relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? > > this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild > speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? > > let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to > deal with this logically instead of emotionally. > > john > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Ed Kummel wrote: > > >-->Didn't we already have a lawsuit like this...and it failed? It was the > fat person suing McDonalds for serving food that would make him fat... > >--> > >--> Ed > >--> web/gadget guru > >--> > >-->john wrote: > >--> check this out: > >--> > >-->Offbeat News > >-->Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2006 > >-->Calif. sues 6 carmakers over greenhouse gases > >--> > >--> > >--> > >--> > >-->SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed suit against Ford Motor > Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other carmakers on > Wednesday, charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the > state millions of dollars. > >--> > >-->State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. > District Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to > hold manufacturers liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' > emissions. > >--> > >-->The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of > Germany's DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. > and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. > >--> > >--> > http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=50900&id=2006092013200002493097 > >--> > >-->---- > >--> > > >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-->** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >-->** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > > >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> > >--> > >--> > >-->Don't You Love Mistyping URL's.... > > >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >-->....when they turn out to be pretty neat. > >--> > >-->In this case I was trying for Engadget.com, and instead wound up at > www.edgadget.com which appears to have lots of Newton software. > >--> > >--> - ProfessorF from the UK pcpro/macuser forum > >--> > >-->--------------------------------- > >-->Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! > Small Business. > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2248 **********************************