From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Nov 3 17:29:27 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, November 4 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2300 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] "best" Diesel Benz.... Re: [db] "best" Diesel Benz.... [db] Re: stalling problems Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. RE: [db] OK, OK, I give. Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 09:58:43 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] "best" Diesel Benz.... On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:59:48AM -0800, john wrote: > On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Jim Steere wrote: > >-->> I wonder what the best ever Diesel Benz might be... only have experience > >-->> up to this '91 300D/124... not sure about the newer ones, would think > >-->> john > >-->My .02? The very best was the '87(only) 300D/124....the only year they put > >-->the (new-style) turbo 5 cylinder in it. Quickest diesel car I've ever > >-->driven. > >-->A close second would be '87 (only) 190D 2.5 Turbo/W201. > >-->I've had one of each.... > >-->Jim > > what about the '87 300D with the 3.0L - Kevin? > > I wonder if the 190D with the 2.5L TD would get better mileage than > the 124 with the same engine... It is an amazing engine. The 87 300D is a six cylinder, and is a wonderful car. Too many possibilities for 'best'. What is best for one is not necessarily best for another. FWIW, the 87 300D gets about 32-34 on the highway. My brother's 78 300D is a LOT easier to work on than it, and hasn't required the degree of major work the 87 300D has gotten in its lifetime though (transmission rebuild by the PO, head done by me), and the minor stuff is a big pain when compared to the simpler 123. It really depends on what you want. Myself, I'd probably prefer a 126, though I never owned one. K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:48:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] "best" Diesel Benz.... I've had a 126... they're ok... like my 124 better for handling, the ride on the 126 was ok, but felt a bit large... john On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Kevin wrote: >-->On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 09:59:48AM -0800, john wrote: >-->> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Jim Steere wrote: >-->> >-->> I wonder what the best ever Diesel Benz might be... only have experience >-->> >-->> up to this '91 300D/124... not sure about the newer ones, would think >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->My .02? The very best was the '87(only) 300D/124....the only year they put >-->> >-->the (new-style) turbo 5 cylinder in it. Quickest diesel car I've ever >-->> >-->driven. >-->> >-->A close second would be '87 (only) 190D 2.5 Turbo/W201. >-->> >-->I've had one of each.... >-->> >-->Jim >-->> >-->> what about the '87 300D with the 3.0L - Kevin? >-->> >-->> I wonder if the 190D with the 2.5L TD would get better mileage than >-->> the 124 with the same engine... It is an amazing engine. >--> >-->The 87 300D is a six cylinder, and is a wonderful car. Too many possibilities >-->for 'best'. What is best for one is not necessarily best for another. >--> >-->FWIW, the 87 300D gets about 32-34 on the highway. My brother's 78 300D >-->is a LOT easier to work on than it, and hasn't required the degree of major >-->work the 87 300D has gotten in its lifetime though (transmission rebuild >-->by the PO, head done by me), and the minor stuff is a big pain when compared >-->to the simpler 123. It really depends on what you want. >--> >-->Myself, I'd probably prefer a 126, though I never owned one. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:18:12 -0500 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] Re: stalling problems Michael, have an 190D 2,5L, 1986. When I had algae problems I tried to remove the tank but in the end gave up as I could not undo all the fitting at the bottom of the tank Removed the filter from the bottom and found out that the fine mesh was missing. Even with the filter removed you cannot drain the tank completely as therer is a lip and about 1/4" will stay in. For the removal of the filter you will need a 46 mm socket. Did not have much luck with a large pair of pliers. Drained the tank by disconnecting the supply line in the engine bay, attached a longer fuel line and let the diesel run into cans I placed in front of the car. Also removed the filler cap from the tank and blew air into the tank. Fabricated a disc about the size of the cap, punched a hole into it and held an air line to it. Doubt very much that the filler cap is the problem. Guess you have some debris in the tank. Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:32:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. Stephen Rigley wrote: > > heheh DeLorean might have made it had he stayed away from the white stuff *** Nah, his car was too small. I sat in one once - it was too small for me and I'm not that big ( 5'10" ). It had a depression in the padding of the gullwing door to give a little more headroom. My head was up in the depression. I could barely see out from under it. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > ;-) > > A couple of v.old looking Willys passed me while I was there, didn't have my > camera at the time unfortunately.. but will send on a few pics of the VW > buggies/chevy pickups/ etc to your email (I've no host at the moment.. ftp > server is down..) > > Diesel content :-) > > Cold mornings have reached us here in Ireland... "the clank" is back... if > the car ('88 190D) is started normally (no revving) it clanks badly... if > its revved to say 4krpm immediately after starting, the clank disappears.. > its repetition is engine speed related. We replaced the vacuum pump last > year and the engine shock, it seemed to go away for awhile (altho the > weather did get warmer then too..). It is due an oil + filter change so > might try that on Sat morning to see if it helps.. any other ideas? > > Steve > > > > > On 11/3/06, john wrote: > > > > there were several Brook Stevens designs built in Brazil based > > on the Willys and early Wagoneers. Would love to see pictures... > > > > Ever been to the National Auto Museum in Reno, NV? Several of his > > prototypes are in there. They did have the last Wagoneer in there... > > they sold it on ebay. :( Sad day. However, I got to touch it, > > photograph it... :) > > > > You know, just thinking about what it would take to get a car > > company going, thinking about the Bricklin, the Tucker and the DeLorean... > > I wonder if they would have succeeded had they tried to market > > in countries that didn't develop their own vehicles... it all > > takes money, that's a big problem though... > > > > john > > > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > > > >-->Just back from 3 weeks in Brazil on Monday myself! Some interesting > > vehicles > > >-->down there... > > >-->Yeah the Rexxon is much nicer/better built, also... (John might like > > this > > >-->one) the Korando is almost Willys Jeep/Wrangler looking. > > >-->Steve > > >--> > > >-->On 11/3/06, ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: > > >-->> > > >-->> Have been down in Chile (South America) for the last 10 days > > working. The > > >-->> Musso has been replaced with the Ssangyong REXXON and it looks even > > better > > >-->> than the Musso. Never imported to the US officially which is a > > damned > > >-->> pity, with the MB 2.7L diesel made in Thailand, it is one fine > > looking and > > >-->> running 4X4. Have ridden in both the Musso and Rexxon and find them > > >-->> comfortable and relatively quiet. > > >-->> > > >-->> Edward > > >-->> > > >-->> > > >-->> Maybe it's just me but I think it's a handsome looking > > >-->> > machine. With a diesel in it I'd drive it!!! > > >-->> > > > >-->> > :) > > >-->> > > > >-->> > Jim > > >-->> > > > >-->> >> Merc Diesels in 4x4s ... did you get the SSangYong Musso in the > > US? > > >-->> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssangyong_Musso > > >-->> >> http://www.ssangyong.ie/ > > >-->> >> > > >-->> >> > > >-->> >> On 11/2/06, john wrote: > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > not Mercedes Diesels... there were Perkins Diesels used > > >-->> >> > in many export models and a few domestic... mostly in the '60s. > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > The only other Diesel in a production Jeep that made it > > stateside, > > >-->> >> > other than those blessed with a Perkins, were the XJ/MJs from > > >-->> >> > '85 -'87, and those were the Renault 2.1L all aluminum turbo > > Diesels. > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > Actually I will have an "extra" CJ-2A if it doesn't sell... > > :) but > > >-->> >> > it all takes money and time... > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > I am putting a 6.2L Diesel into my '83 J10 stepside... but if > > the > > >-->> >> > stars align just right I may end up with a Benz Diesel in an XJ > > as > > >-->> >> well... > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > for now I'll be happy with the J10... :) > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > john > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 > > (Quadradrive) > > >-->> >> > 1991 Mercedes 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT > > >-->> >> > 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 5.9/727/np229 > > >-->> >> > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> 6.2L/700R4/NP > > 219 > > >-->> >> or NP > > >-->> >> > 208... driveline in work... > > >-->> >> > 1975 Jeep J10 Bed/trailer hydraulic dump > > >-->> >> > 1967 Jeep J100 Panel > > >-->> >> > 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 > > >-->> >> > 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > >-->I heard that there are a bunch of Jeeps, maybe Canadian > > military, > > >-->> >> that > > >-->> >> > >-->have Mercedes Diesels in them from the factory. John, you > > seem > > >-->> to > > >-->> >> be > > >-->> >> > in > > >-->> >> > >-->love with both and keep talking about putting a MB diesel > > in your > > >-->> >> > >-->Willys. Have you heard of those before? .... Bob > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->67 200D > > >-->> >> > >-->83 300D > > >-->> >> > >-->05 Passat Wagon TDI > > >-->> >> > >-->51 Willys Truck > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->Bob Hamilton O|||||||O > > >-->> >> > >-->( (780) 462-0860 > > >-->> >> > >-->7 (780) 462-0633 FAX > > >-->> >> > >-->- bhamilton-at-amvic.org > > >-->> >> > >-->: www.amvic.org > > >-->> >> > >-->a www.telusplanet.net/public/bhamilt/ > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->-----Original Message----- > > >-->> >> > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto: > > >-->> >> > owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > > >-->> >> > >-->On Behalf Of john > > >-->> >> > >-->Sent: November 1, 2006 5:48 PM > > >-->> >> > >-->To: Jerome Kaidor > > >-->> >> > >-->Cc: jasonbassett-at-juno.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > >-->> >> > >-->Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->I live with the Rube Goldberg issues and Teutonic warrior > > seats > > >-->> >> > because > > >-->> >> > >-->of the incredible engines under the bonnet. :) > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->someday I will transplant said engine to something nice, > > like a > > >-->> >> > Jeep... > > >-->> >> > >-->kind of wish I'd sync'd the 240d with the '48 cj-2a... that > > would > > >-->> >> have > > >-->> >> > >-->been one sweet setup. > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->john > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > >-->> >> > >--> > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->john wrote: > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> Jason, > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> One word of advice... stick to the Diesel variations > > of > > >-->> >> > >-->Mercedes... > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->*** Amen. I looked through a buyers guide - looked at > > the > > >-->> >> mileage > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->13, 12, 14, 15 .....25. 25? Diesel. > > >-->> >> > >-->>--> > > >-->> >> > >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > >--> > > > > ---- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:21:57 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] OK, OK, I give. And that motor was no star, either. Gotta wonder what it would have been like if GM hadn't killed their rotor motor program, which the DMC was supposed to use. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:32 PM > To: Stephen Rigley > Cc: john; ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net; jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. > > > Stephen Rigley wrote: > > > > heheh DeLorean might have made it had he stayed away from the > white stuff > *** Nah, his car was too small. I sat in one once - it was too small for > me and I'm not that big ( 5'10" ). It had a depression in the > padding of the > gullwing door to give a little more headroom. My head was up in the > depression. I could barely see out from under it. > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > > > ;-) > > > > A couple of v.old looking Willys passed me while I was there, > didn't have my > > camera at the time unfortunately.. but will send on a few pics of the VW > > buggies/chevy pickups/ etc to your email (I've no host at the > moment.. ftp > > server is down..) > > > > Diesel content :-) > > > > Cold mornings have reached us here in Ireland... "the clank" is > back... if > > the car ('88 190D) is started normally (no revving) it clanks > badly... if > > its revved to say 4krpm immediately after starting, the clank > disappears.. > > its repetition is engine speed related. We replaced the vacuum pump last > > year and the engine shock, it seemed to go away for awhile (altho the > > weather did get warmer then too..). It is due an oil + filter change so > > might try that on Sat morning to see if it helps.. any other ideas? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > On 11/3/06, john wrote: > > > > > > there were several Brook Stevens designs built in Brazil based > > > on the Willys and early Wagoneers. Would love to see pictures... > > > > > > Ever been to the National Auto Museum in Reno, NV? Several of his > > > prototypes are in there. They did have the last Wagoneer in there... > > > they sold it on ebay. :( Sad day. However, I got to touch it, > > > photograph it... :) > > > > > > You know, just thinking about what it would take to get a car > > > company going, thinking about the Bricklin, the Tucker and > the DeLorean... > > > I wonder if they would have succeeded had they tried to market > > > in countries that didn't develop their own vehicles... it all > > > takes money, that's a big problem though... > > > > > > john > > > > > > On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > > > > > >-->Just back from 3 weeks in Brazil on Monday myself! Some > interesting > > > vehicles > > > >-->down there... > > > >-->Yeah the Rexxon is much nicer/better built, also... (John > might like > > > this > > > >-->one) the Korando is almost Willys Jeep/Wrangler looking. > > > >-->Steve > > > >--> > > > >-->On 11/3/06, ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: > > > >-->> > > > >-->> Have been down in Chile (South America) for the last 10 days > > > working. The > > > >-->> Musso has been replaced with the Ssangyong REXXON and > it looks even > > > better > > > >-->> than the Musso. Never imported to the US officially which is a > > > damned > > > >-->> pity, with the MB 2.7L diesel made in Thailand, it is one fine > > > looking and > > > >-->> running 4X4. Have ridden in both the Musso and Rexxon > and find them > > > >-->> comfortable and relatively quiet. > > > >-->> > > > >-->> Edward > > > >-->> > > > >-->> > > > >-->> Maybe it's just me but I think it's a handsome looking > > > >-->> > machine. With a diesel in it I'd drive it!!! > > > >-->> > > > > >-->> > :) > > > >-->> > > > > >-->> > Jim > > > >-->> > > > > >-->> >> Merc Diesels in 4x4s ... did you get the SSangYong > Musso in the > > > US? > > > >-->> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssangyong_Musso > > > >-->> >> http://www.ssangyong.ie/ > > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> > > > >-->> >> On 11/2/06, john wrote: > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > not Mercedes Diesels... there were Perkins Diesels used > > > >-->> >> > in many export models and a few domestic... mostly > in the '60s. > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > The only other Diesel in a production Jeep that made it > > > stateside, > > > >-->> >> > other than those blessed with a Perkins, were the > XJ/MJs from > > > >-->> >> > '85 -'87, and those were the Renault 2.1L all > aluminum turbo > > > Diesels. > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > Actually I will have an "extra" CJ-2A if it doesn't sell... > > > :) but > > > >-->> >> > it all takes money and time... > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > I am putting a 6.2L Diesel into my '83 J10 > stepside... but if > > > the > > > >-->> >> > stars align just right I may end up with a Benz > Diesel in an XJ > > > as > > > >-->> >> well... > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > for now I'll be happy with the J10... :) > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > john > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV 247 > > > (Quadradrive) > > > >-->> >> > 1991 Mercedes 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT > > > >-->> >> > 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 5.9/727/np229 > > > >-->> >> > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside was 4.2L I-6/T-5/NP208 --> > 6.2L/700R4/NP > > > 219 > > > >-->> >> or NP > > > >-->> >> > 208... driveline in work... > > > >-->> >> > 1975 Jeep J10 Bed/trailer hydraulic dump > > > >-->> >> > 1967 Jeep J100 Panel > > > >-->> >> > 1948 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 > > > >-->> >> > 1947 Willys CJ-2A 2.0L/T90/Spicer 18 (for sale) > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > On Wed, 1 Nov 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > > > >-->> >> > > > > >-->> >> > >-->I heard that there are a bunch of Jeeps, maybe Canadian > > > military, > > > >-->> >> that > > > >-->> >> > >-->have Mercedes Diesels in them from the > factory. John, you > > > seem > > > >-->> to > > > >-->> >> be > > > >-->> >> > in > > > >-->> >> > >-->love with both and keep talking about putting > a MB diesel > > > in your > > > >-->> >> > >-->Willys. Have you heard of those before? .... Bob > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->67 200D > > > >-->> >> > >-->83 300D > > > >-->> >> > >-->05 Passat Wagon TDI > > > >-->> >> > >-->51 Willys Truck > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->Bob Hamilton O|||||||O > > > >-->> >> > >-->( (780) 462-0860 > > > >-->> >> > >-->7 (780) 462-0633 FAX > > > >-->> >> > >-->- bhamilton-at-amvic.org > > > >-->> >> > >-->: www.amvic.org > > > >-->> >> > >-->a www.telusplanet.net/public/bhamilt/ > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->-----Original Message----- > > > >-->> >> > >-->From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto: > > > >-->> >> > owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] > > > >-->> >> > >-->On Behalf Of john > > > >-->> >> > >-->Sent: November 1, 2006 5:48 PM > > > >-->> >> > >-->To: Jerome Kaidor > > > >-->> >> > >-->Cc: jasonbassett-at-juno.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > > >-->> >> > >-->Subject: Re: [db] OK, OK, I give. > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->I live with the Rube Goldberg issues and > Teutonic warrior > > > seats > > > >-->> >> > because > > > >-->> >> > >-->of the incredible engines under the bonnet. :) > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->someday I will transplant said engine to > something nice, > > > like a > > > >-->> >> > Jeep... > > > >-->> >> > >-->kind of wish I'd sync'd the 240d with the '48 > cj-2a... that > > > would > > > >-->> >> have > > > >-->> >> > >-->been one sweet setup. > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->john > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > > > >-->> >> > >--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->john wrote: > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> Jason, > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> One word of advice... stick to the > Diesel variations > > > of > > > >-->> >> > >-->Mercedes... > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->> > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->*** Amen. I looked through a buyers guide > - looked at > > > the > > > >-->> >> mileage > > > >-->> >> > >-->>-->13, 12, 14, 15 .....25. 25? Diesel. > > > >-->> >> > >-->>--> > > > >-->> >> > >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) > > > >--> > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2300 **********************************