From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Dec 12 11:49:03 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, December 12 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2321 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? [db] How to start a junkyard diesel? [db] running out of fuel when the gage reads 1/4 full Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ [db] This won't upset anyone: 123 upper control arm, I think..... [db] Vacuum on tranny Re: [db] This won't upset anyone: 123 upper control arm, I think..... Re: [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ Re: [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:30:49 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? Aside from the obvious. What I mean is how can one tell that the installed long block is actually a turbo diesel? I bought a 1983 300D turbo from the back lot of a repair shop. Looking under the hood - it appears that the engine has been replaced. The car has never been as strong as my 116 300SD - which will run off and hide from this 300D. The turbo appears fine and even sound like it is working. The 300D's power is somewhere between my mom's 240D and my SD. What I expect a 300D non-turbo would be like. Engine is silky smooth, starts easily in freezing temps, etc. I have heard/read that if you add the turbo hardware to a non-turbo motor, the power increase will be little to none as the additional air will not have the additional fuel required by the turbo motors(IP and injectors). I can see where a sleazy shop would/could by a non-turbo engine(cheaper), add the hardware/oil pan but not replace install the turbo's injectors/IP(no need to adjust timing). Any thoughts opinions are welcomed. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:21:55 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] How to start a junkyard diesel? Found a guy that will sell me a 617 and the trans for $250. He has 2 - both are in the car but he has no keys. The cars are totals - so they were running/driving when they got smashed. Plan is to hook fuel line to a small can of diesel, disconnect vacuum shut-off, use jumper wires to engage starter. What terminal/terminals do I power/ground to get the relay to heat the GPs? Thanks, Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:28:42 -0500 From: "Black, Waylon" Subject: [db] running out of fuel when the gage reads 1/4 full I have heard that if the fuel lines get swapped that you will have the issue you describe. Seems that the return line works just as well as the supply line until you get to around 1/4 tank. I plan to swap the lines to suck the garbage into the small filters so that I may not have to pull the tank. Using one of those old screw together gas filters(as the first filter) so that I can see/clean the garbage. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas Subject: [db] running out of fuel when the gage reads 1/4 full Thanks for all of the suggestions about how to get my key to work in the driver's side door. Now that that is fixed, here's the next minor annoyance: It appears that this '82 300TD is running out of fuel (or at least behaving as such) when the fuel tank gage still reads 1/4 full. At this point the car will stutter and stall. As soon as I put more fuel in it, it is fine. New fuel filters didn't help. Is there some sort of calibration on the gage which is out of whack? Is this something I can adjust? Is there something else I should check? I have owned the car less than 1 year and it has been this way since I bought it so I don't know the history of the problem. - - -John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:49:32 -0600 From: "Mark Frost" Subject: Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? Waylon, The benefits of the turbocharger will only be seen if the IP is delivering additional fuel to match the additional air supplied by the turbo. Additional enrichment is provided by the ALDA unit on the injector pump. It has a hose running through a vent valve to a banjo bolt on the intake manifold. If the banjo bolt, hose or valve is plugged the ALDA will not sense boost pressure and will consequently give no enrichment. The car would present with the same symptoms if the ALDA is bad, but cleaning out a few fittings is cheaper and easier than finding a replacement ALDA from what I understand. Other reasons for lame performance: Restricted air/fuel flow (change filters) Restricted throttle travel (check linkage to make sure pedal-on-floor translates to throttle against stop. Let us know what you find, Mark Frost On 12/11/06, Black, Waylon wrote: > > Aside from the obvious. > > What I mean is how can one tell that the installed long block is > actually a turbo diesel? > > I bought a 1983 300D turbo from the back lot of a repair shop. Looking > under the hood - it appears that the engine has been replaced. The car > has never been as strong as my 116 300SD - which will run off and hide > from this 300D. The turbo appears fine and even sound like it is > working. > > The 300D's power is somewhere between my mom's 240D and my SD. What I > expect a 300D non-turbo would be like. Engine is silky smooth, starts > easily in freezing temps, etc. > > I have heard/read that if you add the turbo hardware to a non-turbo > motor, the power increase will be little to none as the additional air > will not have the additional fuel required by the turbo motors(IP and > injectors). > > I can see where a sleazy shop would/could by a non-turbo > engine(cheaper), add the hardware/oil pan but not replace install the > turbo's injectors/IP(no need to adjust timing). > > Any thoughts opinions are welcomed. > > Waylon Black > Little Elm, Texas > - -- "There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'." - --Dave Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:28:00 -0600 From: acordova-at-texas.net Subject: Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? I concur. It's more likely just gunked up vacuum lines or worn linkages. One finds a great deal of variance in current performance of OM617 turbodiesels due to both production variances in ALDA settings and the years of gunk. Nearly all are still capable of similar surprisingly good power when properly cleaned and adjusted. I believe my 85 300D was on the strong side. Every once in a while I could catch a little tire chirp into second gear. Then again, I wasn't running Michelin Pilot Sport tires. ;-) Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 214K Quoting Mark Frost : > Waylon, > The benefits of the turbocharger will only be seen if the IP is delivering > additional fuel to match the additional air supplied by the turbo. > > Additional enrichment is provided by the ALDA unit on the injector pump. > It > has a hose running through a vent valve to a banjo bolt on the intake > manifold. If the banjo bolt, hose or valve is plugged the ALDA will not > sense boost pressure and will consequently give no enrichment. The car > would present with the same symptoms if the ALDA is bad, but cleaning out > a > few fittings is cheaper and easier than finding a replacement ALDA from > what > I understand. > > Other reasons for lame performance: > Restricted air/fuel flow (change filters) > Restricted throttle travel (check linkage to make sure pedal-on-floor > translates to throttle against stop. > > Let us know what you find, > Mark Frost > > > On 12/11/06, Black, Waylon wrote: > > > > Aside from the obvious. > > > > What I mean is how can one tell that the installed long block is > > actually a turbo diesel? > > > > I bought a 1983 300D turbo from the back lot of a repair shop. Looking > > under the hood - it appears that the engine has been replaced. The car > > has never been as strong as my 116 300SD - which will run off and hide > > from this 300D. The turbo appears fine and even sound like it is > > working. > > > > The 300D's power is somewhere between my mom's 240D and my SD. What I > > expect a 300D non-turbo would be like. Engine is silky smooth, starts > > easily in freezing temps, etc. > > > > I have heard/read that if you add the turbo hardware to a non-turbo > > motor, the power increase will be little to none as the additional air > > will not have the additional fuel required by the turbo motors(IP and > > injectors). > > > > I can see where a sleazy shop would/could by a non-turbo > > engine(cheaper), add the hardware/oil pan but not replace install the > > turbo's injectors/IP(no need to adjust timing). > > > > Any thoughts opinions are welcomed. > > > > Waylon Black > > Little Elm, Texas > > > > > > -- > "There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'." > --Dave Barry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:05:20 -0000 (UTC) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? > Waylon, > The benefits of the turbocharger will only be seen if the IP is delivering > additional fuel to match the additional air supplied by the turbo. > > Additional enrichment is provided by the ALDA unit on the injector pump. *** It's possible for the ALDA to just be out of adjustment. There is a screw at the top. My 300SD went from seriously lame to just fine with a 1/4 turn of that screw. - Jerry Kaidor > > Other reasons for lame performance: > Restricted air/fuel flow (change filters) > Restricted throttle travel (check linkage to make sure pedal-on-floor > translates to throttle against stop. > > Let us know what you find, > Mark Frost > > > On 12/11/06, Black, Waylon wrote: >> >> Aside from the obvious. >> >> What I mean is how can one tell that the installed long block is >> actually a turbo diesel? >> >> I bought a 1983 300D turbo from the back lot of a repair shop. Looking >> under the hood - it appears that the engine has been replaced. The car >> has never been as strong as my 116 300SD - which will run off and hide >> from this 300D. The turbo appears fine and even sound like it is >> working. >> >> The 300D's power is somewhere between my mom's 240D and my SD. What I >> expect a 300D non-turbo would be like. Engine is silky smooth, starts >> easily in freezing temps, etc. >> >> I have heard/read that if you add the turbo hardware to a non-turbo >> motor, the power increase will be little to none as the additional air >> will not have the additional fuel required by the turbo motors(IP and >> injectors). >> >> I can see where a sleazy shop would/could by a non-turbo >> engine(cheaper), add the hardware/oil pan but not replace install the >> turbo's injectors/IP(no need to adjust timing). >> >> Any thoughts opinions are welcomed. >> >> Waylon Black >> Little Elm, Texas >> > > > > -- > "There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'." > --Dave Barry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:05:32 -0000 (UTC) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] How to tell a non-turbo from a turbo diesel? > Waylon, > The benefits of the turbocharger will only be seen if the IP is delivering > additional fuel to match the additional air supplied by the turbo. > > Additional enrichment is provided by the ALDA unit on the injector pump. *** It's possible for the ALDA to just be out of adjustment. There is a screw at the top. My 300SD went from seriously lame to just fine with a 1/4 turn of that screw. - Jerry Kaidor > > Other reasons for lame performance: > Restricted air/fuel flow (change filters) > Restricted throttle travel (check linkage to make sure pedal-on-floor > translates to throttle against stop. > > Let us know what you find, > Mark Frost > > > On 12/11/06, Black, Waylon wrote: >> >> Aside from the obvious. >> >> What I mean is how can one tell that the installed long block is >> actually a turbo diesel? >> >> I bought a 1983 300D turbo from the back lot of a repair shop. Looking >> under the hood - it appears that the engine has been replaced. The car >> has never been as strong as my 116 300SD - which will run off and hide >> from this 300D. The turbo appears fine and even sound like it is >> working. >> >> The 300D's power is somewhere between my mom's 240D and my SD. What I >> expect a 300D non-turbo would be like. Engine is silky smooth, starts >> easily in freezing temps, etc. >> >> I have heard/read that if you add the turbo hardware to a non-turbo >> motor, the power increase will be little to none as the additional air >> will not have the additional fuel required by the turbo motors(IP and >> injectors). >> >> I can see where a sleazy shop would/could by a non-turbo >> engine(cheaper), add the hardware/oil pan but not replace install the >> turbo's injectors/IP(no need to adjust timing). >> >> Any thoughts opinions are welcomed. >> >> Waylon Black >> Little Elm, Texas >> > > > > -- > "There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'." > --Dave Barry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:07:03 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ Hi everybody....I have a diesel question that I hope won't make people TOO mad..... There's an old VW bug at a local whateveryard (dunno what to call it) that looks to have a pretty good body. How hard would it be to put a used 1.8t or new 1.9t into it? How much would it cost? I shouldn't even ask, but I know at least John will get some jollies out of my wacky ideas.... Jason (Still driving the '81 240D "Kitty," with no plans to quit soon, so you all can keep breathing....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:16:51 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] This won't upset anyone: 123 upper control arm, I think..... I noticed recently that my front right tire was wearing oddly, and seeming to move around in odd directions (felt like from the wheel and sounded like) so this morning I got up early to mess with it (working 2 jobs will make you do things like that....) and found that apparently the old thumpy brakes that I replaced about a month and a half ago managed to tear up the upper control arm stuff pretty severely. What advice do you have? I'm going to ask Rusty about it if I can ever catch him at his desk, but want your opinion. (It's worth its weight in gold.) Jason (Still loyal to that '81 240D, even though its falling apart....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:32:21 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] Vacuum on tranny Actually, what happens if you disconnect the line from the tranny, yes it sees 0 vacuum and thinks full throttle, but no, it won't shift smoothly that way, unless you drive it at full throttle all the time. Why? Simple. When the tranny assumes full throttle, it raises the shift points almost to the "redline," and they also become very "high- powered" (don't know how else to describe putting more pressure on the clutches in anticipation of a large power input to absorb.) So you did the worst thing you could have done to try to smooth it out. Ask my Kitty how I know this!!! Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:36:35 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] This won't upset anyone: 123 upper control arm, I think..... 123 upper control arms come loaded with ball joints from rusty for fiftyish a piece (maybe a little more, maybe a little less) and are extremely easy to replace. If they are worn enough, you're going to need an alignment after replacing them. K On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 06:16:51PM +0000, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > I noticed recently that my front right tire was wearing oddly, and > seeming to move around in odd directions (felt like from the wheel and > sounded like) so this morning I got up early to mess with it (working > 2 jobs will make you do things like that....) and found that > apparently the old thumpy brakes that I replaced about a month and a > half ago managed to tear up the upper control arm stuff pretty > severely. What advice do you have? I'm going to ask Rusty about it if > I can ever catch him at his desk, but want your opinion. (It's worth > its weight in gold.) > > Jason > (Still loyal to that '81 240D, even though its falling apart....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:57:53 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ :) it'll be a challenge... the newer bugs are setup for front drive with water cooling... old ones of course rear drive, air cooled... main issue will be mounts and cooling... can't see why it's not possible. oh yeah, trans linkage stuff will be WAY different... big hammer, duct tape, welder, torch, an assortment of bolts and rods, bing bang boom, done. :) john On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Hi everybody....I have a diesel question that I hope won't make people >-->TOO mad..... >--> >-->There's an old VW bug at a local whateveryard (dunno what to call it) >-->that looks to have a pretty good body. How hard would it be to put a >-->used 1.8t or new 1.9t into it? How much would it cost? >--> >-->I shouldn't even ask, but I know at least John will get some jollies >-->out of my wacky ideas.... >--> >-->Jason >-->(Still driving the '81 240D "Kitty," with no plans to quit soon, so >-->you all can keep breathing....) >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:33:49 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] [OT] You guys are going to hate me for this........ Too bad you guys don't live closer together!!!! We could keep all the popcorn manufacturers busy year round! Actually, I'd probably get sick of popcorn real fast! ;) Jim > :) it'll be a challenge... the newer bugs are setup for front drive with > water cooling... old ones of course rear drive, air cooled... main issue > will be mounts and cooling... can't see why it's not possible. > > > oh yeah, trans linkage stuff will be WAY different... big hammer, duct > tape, welder, torch, an assortment of bolts and rods, bing bang boom, done. :) > > john > > On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >-->Hi everybody....I have a diesel question that I hope won't make people > >-->TOO mad..... > >--> > >-->There's an old VW bug at a local whateveryard (dunno what to call it) > >-->that looks to have a pretty good body. How hard would it be to put a > >-->used 1.8t or new 1.9t into it? How much would it cost? > >--> > >-->I shouldn't even ask, but I know at least John will get some jollies > >-->out of my wacky ideas.... > >--> > >-->Jason > >-->(Still driving the '81 240D "Kitty," with no plans to quit soon, so > >-->you all can keep breathing....) > >--> ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2321 **********************************