From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Dec 20 10:39:18 2006 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, December 20 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2330 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] no sign of CRD in GC... :( Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? [db] Biodiesel Cold Weather Data Point Re: [db] Leaking fuel filter Re: [db] Biodiesel Cold Weather Data Point Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] no sign of CRD in GC... :( Bob, nothing on Jeep's website about this at all... :( the link below is from a canadian website... bummmer. :( john On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >-->http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/Ne >-->wModels/2006/06/01/1610340.html >--> >-->I haven't actually seen one yet at a dealer but they won't be far away. >-->Same torque numbers as the hemi - same diesel as in the Mercedes cars. >--> >-->..... Bob >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: December 19, 2006 11:57 PM >-->To: Bob Hamilton >-->Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: [db] Cruise control question >--> >-->On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >--> >-->wait, the '07's are out, aren't they? or is it the 2008 GCs that >-->will have it??? I don't care for the indepenent front suspension, >-->the looks or the fact they desigate it as WK instead of WJ... >--> >-->but if it's a Jeep, with a Diesel... I'll give it some consideration. :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:02:17 -0800 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? seen one yet?! "The 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.0-litre common rail turbodiesel (CRD) engine will arrive in dealerships the first quarter of 2007." what time is it where *you're* at? ;-) but seriously, that might be cool enough to erase the memories of the poor-performing CRD Libby, eh? anyone care to convert the fuel Consumption specs into the MPG format more familiar to 'Merikuns? cheers! e john wrote: > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2006/06/01/1610340.html > > anyone seen one yet??? I bet they're not cheap... > > too bad they had to ruin the Grand Cherokee before putting a Diesel in it... :( > > john > > >> --> >> -->I haven't actually seen one yet at a dealer but they won't be far away. >> -->Same torque numbers as the hemi - same diesel as in the Mercedes cars. >> --> >> -->..... Bob >> --> >> -->-----Original Message----- >> -->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >> -->Sent: December 19, 2006 11:57 PM >> -->To: Bob Hamilton >> -->Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> -->Subject: Re: [db] Cruise control question >> --> >> -->On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >> --> >> -->wait, the '07's are out, aren't they? or is it the 2008 GCs that >> -->will have it??? I don't care for the indepenent front suspension, >> -->the looks or the fact they desigate it as WK instead of WJ... >> --> >> -->but if it's a Jeep, with a Diesel... I'll give it some consideration. :) >> --> >> -->john >> --> >> --> >> > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? what do they show for economy? I can convert the liters/100km to "english". ;) or yank, or whatever you want to call it that we use here... (make sure you don't use Imperial gallons either or you'll think you're doing way better than you really are. ;) john On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, ernest breakfield wrote: > -->seen one yet?! > -->"The 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.0-litre common rail turbodiesel (CRD) > -->engine will arrive in dealerships the first quarter of 2007." > --> what time is it where *you're* at? ;-) > --> > --> but seriously, that might be cool enough to erase the memories of the > -->poor-performing CRD Libby, eh? > --> > --> anyone care to convert the fuel Consumption specs into the MPG format > -->more familiar to 'Merikuns? > --> > --> > -->cheers! > -->e > --> > --> > -->john wrote: > -->> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > -->> http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2006/06/01/1610340.html > -->> > -->> anyone seen one yet??? I bet they're not cheap... > -->> > -->> too bad they had to ruin the Grand Cherokee before putting a Diesel in > -->> it... :( > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> > -->> > -->I haven't actually seen one yet at a dealer but they won't be far > -->> > -->away. > -->> > -->Same torque numbers as the hemi - same diesel as in the Mercedes > -->> > -->cars. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->..... Bob > -->> > --> > -->> > -->-----Original Message----- > -->> > -->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: December 19, 2006 11:57 > -->> > -->PM > -->> > -->To: Bob Hamilton > -->> > -->Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > -->> > -->Subject: Re: [db] Cruise control question > -->> > --> > -->> > -->On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > -->wait, the '07's are out, aren't they? or is it the 2008 GCs that > -->> > -->will have it??? I don't care for the indepenent front suspension, > -->> > -->the looks or the fact they desigate it as WK instead of WJ... > -->> > -->but if it's a Jeep, with a Diesel... I'll give it some consideration. > -->> > -->:) > -->> > --> > -->> > -->john > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > > -->> > -->> ----- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > --> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:40:47 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? The fact that this info is from a Canadian website makes me suspicious that we'll actually EVER see any here :( Anyone want to do the metric to SAE conversions on the MPG's for me... I'm too lazy ;) Jim > On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2006/06/01/1610340.html > > anyone seen one yet??? I bet they're not cheap... > > too bad they had to ruin the Grand Cherokee before putting a Diesel in it... :( > > john > > >--> > >-->I haven't actually seen one yet at a dealer but they won't be far away. > >-->Same torque numbers as the hemi - same diesel as in the Mercedes cars. > >--> > >-->..... Bob > >--> > >-->-----Original Message----- > >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > >-->Sent: December 19, 2006 11:57 PM > >-->To: Bob Hamilton > >-->Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >-->Subject: Re: [db] Cruise control question > >--> > >-->On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: > >--> > >-->wait, the '07's are out, aren't they? or is it the 2008 GCs that > >-->will have it??? I don't care for the indepenent front suspension, > >-->the looks or the fact they desigate it as WK instead of WJ... > >--> > >-->but if it's a Jeep, with a Diesel... I'll give it some consideration. :) > >--> > >-->john > >--> > >--> > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:51:57 -0800 From: ernest breakfield Subject: [db] Biodiesel Cold Weather Data Point hi! did a little experimenting recently and thought i'd share some of the observations for the benefit of any/all. firstly, Helga is an '85 300D with almost 160K miles, and has been using almost exclusively commercially purchased BioD for ~3 years/40K miles. the fuel is commercially produced from recycled oil stock (i believe the current stock was used for frying potato chips, but i may be mistaken.) on a recent trip to the Sierra, i decided to try straight B99/100 purchased from our favorite local supplier, just to see how the vehicle would react to the low temps since i had the luxury of convenient support should i need it. after sitting for a few days with temps near freezing, it started up perfectly; a single Glow cycle resulted in an immediate smoke-free start and a smooth idle, as is normal for this car. power, however, was lower than it usually is when cold as i started up the hill out the driveway, to the extent i found i had the accelerator floored just to keep it moving. out of curiosity, i tried revving it in Neutral, and found i could only get about 2K RPM on it maximum! even after coolant temp had reached normal indicated range (80C+), Max RPMs were still only about 2K RPM for about the first 10-15 minutes of use; fortunately, this was enough to suit the needs in the small town we were in. it wasn't until we'd gotten several miles farther down the road that it rev'd freely as normal. my theory is that although the fuel had not gelled completely, it had gelled enough that there was enough occlusion in the fuel system that it wouldn't allow full fuel flow until things had warmed up. were i to head into the same conditions again, i'll probably top off with #2 Dino before stopping, just to try to lower the Gel Point of the fuel a bit. fortunately my wife tends to have a bit of an adventurous nature, or this could have been much less fun! (the dog napped serenely in the rear seat the entire time, knowing nothing of the fun we were having; only that we were going home,...) cheers! e Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:03:36 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Leaking fuel filter That's odd... I used Mann filters and the O-rings have always been correct. Is it the correct filter? If you decide to replace the valve, go to www.buymbparts.com... they have the part in stock for $88.84 and free shipping. Search for P/N 601 070 05 46. I would not delete the shutoff function, since it might be the difference between a $7,000 rebuild and a $500 repair someday. Good luck. J.B. At 05:45 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote: >J.B. offered: > >>It's unique to the 606, and it's an incredibly stupid design. In >>ideal circumstances, it takes forever to shut the motor off. More >>than enough time for serious engine damage to occur from say, a >>self-destructing vacuum pump. I had to replace mine because the >>knob was broken by the previous owner. To make it even worse, the >>part lists for $90. I would check the O-rings first (included with >>the better filters) before spending that kind of money. > > >Dennis, my mechanic, attempted to use the o-rings that came with the >Mann fuel filter, but they were the wrong size. The dealer wants >$156 for the part!!!!!!! The parts guy at the dealer was so amazed >at the cost, he checked with his boss to see if the price was >right. Dennis made a few calls and told me his independents were >having to buy it from the dealer at the same price! > >Dennis suggested that we could swap that valve for the regular bolt >used on the older engines, but that would negate the "kill" >function. He said he could rig up at connection that would require >something like the MityVac to kill the engine, but the time it would >take to put into use would probably take too long.... > >I took a good look at the valve while the parts guy was trying to >verify the price and it's a simple and basic design. It looks like >the o-rings are the culprit. I'm tempted to get the proper rings, >swap them, and see if that fixes the problem. If it doesn't, I'll >bite the bullet and spend the bucks. Another week of fuel leaking >is worth the $150 savings.... > >Food for thought... I have only had the need for a kill switch once >when my 240D was rear ended. The vacuum lines had been torn apart >and that was the only easy way to shut it down. My old VW's didn't >have a kill switch, but the fuel shutoff was a solenoid. I never >had the need to rapidly shut the engine down. Should I take the >chance and do away with this feature or cough up the bucks and fix >it correctly? I'm on the fence and can't reach the popcorn.... > >I miss my 240D... > >Jon >'95 E300D "Ernestine" >'84 300SD "Bruno" > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: >12/19/2006 1:17 PM J.B. Hebert - ---------------------------------------------- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006 1:17 PM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:03:06 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] Biodiesel Cold Weather Data Point I have run straight B100 (produced in my basement) down to 14 degrees without any change in starting or running behavior. Below that, the car will start but acts like you describe below. At that point I start mixing in around 30% diesel since the higher viscosity of the gelled fuel raises fuel system pressures and could damage seals, lines, etc. J.B. At 12:51 PM 12/20/2006, you wrote: >hi! > > did a little experimenting recently and thought i'd share some > of the observations for the benefit of any/all. > > firstly, Helga is an '85 300D with almost 160K miles, and has > been using almost exclusively commercially purchased BioD for ~3 > years/40K miles. the fuel is commercially produced from recycled > oil stock (i believe the current stock was used for frying potato > chips, but i may be mistaken.) > > on a recent trip to the Sierra, i decided to try straight > B99/100 purchased from our favorite local supplier, just to see how > the vehicle would react to the low temps since i had the luxury of > convenient support should i need it. > after sitting for a few days with temps near freezing, it > started up perfectly; a single Glow cycle resulted in an immediate > smoke-free start and a smooth idle, as is normal for this car. > power, however, was lower than it usually is when cold as i started > up the hill out the driveway, to the extent i found i had the > accelerator floored just to keep it moving. out of curiosity, i > tried revving it in Neutral, and found i could only get about 2K > RPM on it maximum! > even after coolant temp had reached normal indicated range > (80C+), Max RPMs were still only about 2K RPM for about the first > 10-15 minutes of use; fortunately, this was enough to suit the > needs in the small town we were in. it wasn't until we'd gotten > several miles farther down the road that it rev'd freely as normal. > > my theory is that although the fuel had not gelled completely, > it had gelled enough that there was enough occlusion in the fuel > system that it wouldn't allow full fuel flow until things had > warmed up. were i to head into the same conditions again, i'll > probably top off with #2 Dino before stopping, just to try to lower > the Gel Point of the fuel a bit. > > fortunately my wife tends to have a bit of an adventurous > nature, or this could have been much less fun! (the dog napped > serenely in the rear seat the entire time, knowing nothing of the > fun we were having; only that we were going home,...) > > >cheers! >e > >Berkeley > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: >12/19/2006 1:17 PM J.B. Hebert - ---------------------------------------------- Current Vehicles: '76 Ford Bronco '78 Volvo 262C Bertone V8 '80 Alpina B7 Turbo Coupe '82 Mercedes 300CD (Deceased) '93 GMC Sierra 2500 '95 Mercedes E300D Sportline+ - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006 1:17 PM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:05:59 -0800 From: cosmos Subject: Re: [db] CRD (Mercedes) in a Grand Cherokee? They are coming to America, if I remember correctly, on the same time frame. I read a release about 6 months ago saying MY08. I'll see if I can find it. It was also featured alongside the Liberty on one of the Dr. Z commercials. Tim On Wednesday, December 20, 2006, at 09:48AM, "Jim Hoffman" wrote: >The fact that this info is from a Canadian website makes >me suspicious that we'll actually EVER see any here :( >Anyone want to do the metric to SAE conversions on the >MPG's for me... I'm too lazy ;) > >Jim > >> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >> http://www6.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2006/06/01/1610340.html >> >> anyone seen one yet??? I bet they're not cheap... >> >> too bad they had to ruin the Grand Cherokee before putting a Diesel in it... :( >> >> john >> >> >--> >> >-->I haven't actually seen one yet at a dealer but they won't be far away. >> >-->Same torque numbers as the hemi - same diesel as in the Mercedes cars. >> >--> >> >-->..... Bob >> >--> >> >-->-----Original Message----- >> >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >> >-->Sent: December 19, 2006 11:57 PM >> >-->To: Bob Hamilton >> >-->Cc: jslash-at-execpc.com; diesel-benz-at-digest.net >> >-->Subject: Re: [db] Cruise control question >> >--> >> >-->On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Bob Hamilton wrote: >> >--> >> >-->wait, the '07's are out, aren't they? or is it the 2008 GCs that >> >-->will have it??? I don't care for the indepenent front suspension, >> >-->the looks or the fact they desigate it as WK instead of WJ... >> >--> >> >-->but if it's a Jeep, with a Diesel... I'll give it some consideration. :) >> >--> >> >-->john >> >--> >> >--> >> >> ----- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2330 **********************************