From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jan 4 06:09:47 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 4 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2347 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] Re: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] Re2: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 20:38:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] my '91 300D's worst mileage has been about 26... best 39. was getting around 30 in town, but it's dropped with all the lights and that heavy foot... ;) interesting to see that the 300CE does so well. john On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->My 89 300CE with the 3 liter DOHC straight six M103 gasser gets about 22mpg >-->overall, with maybe 75% highway miles. I've hit 27 on a strictly highway >-->tankful. If you compare to a TDI VW, yes, that's crappy, but if you compare >-->it to the cast iron 4.5 liter M117 V8 in that 450SEL, which I do believe >-->gets low teens, mine ain't that bad. >--> >-->On the plus side for the 450, that lower compression motor may actually use >-->regular gas instead of premium. >--> >-->Alec Cordova >-->Taylor, Texas >-->89 300CE, 214K >--> >-->And I only got mid to high 20s in my 85 300D. >--> >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor >-->> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:31 PM >-->> To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com >-->> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: Re: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] >-->> >-->> >-->> jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->> > >-->> > As a 450SEL, what g*s mileage would it get natively? >-->> *** As far as I know, ALL the gas Mercedes get crappy gas mileage. >-->> >-->> - Jerry Kaidor >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I don't know if >-->> > this is a V-6, V-8, or I-6, (I've never looked under the hood...not >-->> > that serious yet) but if the mileage with WHATEVER it is was at or >-->> > above 20/25 (city/highway) I'd seriously consider buying it (for $500, >-->> > not $4500) and just leaving it as-is mechanically for my wife to use. >-->> > (That's about the mileage that her current car gets.) >-->> > >-->> > ALSO, what body style is this car and would it take my '83 240D motor? >-->> > (I know this is the second time I've asked, and last time conjured up >-->> > visions of go-karts in John's mind, but maybe the 560SEL and 450SEL are >-->> > totally different chassis'?) If yes, I might slap it with my 240D >-->> > drivetrain (including the rear end?, because the gas one might be too >-->> > tall....or not?) and use it myself. >-->> > >-->> > I think we're going to drive up the price of popcorn........ >-->> > >-->> > Jason >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:55:03 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] Interesting. I just checked www.fueleconomy.gov, which only covers back to 1985, and it lists the 1989 300E and 300CE at 18 city, 22 highway. Also shows the 85 300D (and 300SD) federal models at 22/25, California models at 21/22, and everything with the 5.0 liter V8, which was a newer engine family that the 4.5, at 14/16. And it lists the 92 300D 2.5 turbo with EPA ratings of 26 city and 31 highway, while the 91 model is 27/33. Like the disclaimer says, the ratings should be used for comparison purposes only. Actual mileage may vary. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:38 PM > To: Alec Cordova > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] > > > my '91 300D's worst mileage has been about 26... best 39. > was getting around 30 in town, but it's dropped with all the lights > and that heavy foot... ;) > > interesting to see that the 300CE does so well. > > john > > On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > > >-->My 89 300CE with the 3 liter DOHC straight six M103 gasser > gets about 22mpg > >-->overall, with maybe 75% highway miles. I've hit 27 on a > strictly highway > >-->tankful. If you compare to a TDI VW, yes, that's crappy, but > if you compare > >-->it to the cast iron 4.5 liter M117 V8 in that 450SEL, which I > do believe > >-->gets low teens, mine ain't that bad. > >--> > >-->On the plus side for the 450, that lower compression motor > may actually use > >-->regular gas instead of premium. > >--> > >-->Alec Cordova > >-->Taylor, Texas > >-->89 300CE, 214K > >--> > >-->And I only got mid to high 20s in my 85 300D. > >--> > >--> > >-->> -----Original Message----- > >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor > >-->> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:31 PM > >-->> To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com > >-->> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >-->> Subject: Re: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > >-->> > > >-->> > As a 450SEL, what g*s mileage would it get natively? > >-->> *** As far as I know, ALL the gas Mercedes get crappy gas mileage. > >-->> > >-->> - Jerry Kaidor > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> I don't know if > >-->> > this is a V-6, V-8, or I-6, (I've never looked under the > hood...not > >-->> > that serious yet) but if the mileage with WHATEVER it is was at or > >-->> > above 20/25 (city/highway) I'd seriously consider buying > it (for $500, > >-->> > not $4500) and just leaving it as-is mechanically for my > wife to use. > >-->> > (That's about the mileage that her current car gets.) > >-->> > > >-->> > ALSO, what body style is this car and would it take my > '83 240D motor? > >-->> > (I know this is the second time I've asked, and last time > conjured up > >-->> > visions of go-karts in John's mind, but maybe the 560SEL > and 450SEL are > >-->> > totally different chassis'?) If yes, I might slap it with my 240D > >-->> > drivetrain (including the rear end?, because the gas one > might be too > >-->> > tall....or not?) and use it myself. > >-->> > > >-->> > I think we're going to drive up the price of popcorn........ > >-->> > > >-->> > Jason > >--> > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] the average on mine since I've had it has been right at 30mpg. going down to CA I only got 34mpg or so... commuting varies greatly now... but 27/33 seems about right... the 39mpg was a rare fluke... john On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->Interesting. I just checked www.fueleconomy.gov, which only covers back to >-->1985, and it lists the 1989 300E and 300CE at 18 city, 22 highway. >--> >-->Also shows the 85 300D (and 300SD) federal models at 22/25, California >-->models at 21/22, and everything with the 5.0 liter V8, which was a newer >-->engine family that the 4.5, at 14/16. >--> >-->And it lists the 92 300D 2.5 turbo with EPA ratings of 26 city and 31 >-->highway, while the 91 model is 27/33. >--> >-->Like the disclaimer says, the ratings should be used for comparison purposes >-->only. Actual mileage may vary. >--> >-->Alec >--> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:38 PM >-->> To: Alec Cordova >-->> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: RE: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] >-->> >-->> >-->> my '91 300D's worst mileage has been about 26... best 39. >-->> was getting around 30 in town, but it's dropped with all the lights >-->> and that heavy foot... ;) >-->> >-->> interesting to see that the 300CE does so well. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->My 89 300CE with the 3 liter DOHC straight six M103 gasser >-->> gets about 22mpg >-->> >-->overall, with maybe 75% highway miles. I've hit 27 on a >-->> strictly highway >-->> >-->tankful. If you compare to a TDI VW, yes, that's crappy, but >-->> if you compare >-->> >-->it to the cast iron 4.5 liter M117 V8 in that 450SEL, which I >-->> do believe >-->> >-->gets low teens, mine ain't that bad. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->On the plus side for the 450, that lower compression motor >-->> may actually use >-->> >-->regular gas instead of premium. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Alec Cordova >-->> >-->Taylor, Texas >-->> >-->89 300CE, 214K >-->> >--> >-->> >-->And I only got mid to high 20s in my 85 300D. >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Jerome Kaidor >-->> >-->> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:31 PM >-->> >-->> To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com >-->> >-->> Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> >-->> Subject: Re: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > As a 450SEL, what g*s mileage would it get natively? >-->> >-->> *** As far as I know, ALL the gas Mercedes get crappy gas mileage. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> - Jerry Kaidor >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I don't know if >-->> >-->> > this is a V-6, V-8, or I-6, (I've never looked under the >-->> hood...not >-->> >-->> > that serious yet) but if the mileage with WHATEVER it is was at or >-->> >-->> > above 20/25 (city/highway) I'd seriously consider buying >-->> it (for $500, >-->> >-->> > not $4500) and just leaving it as-is mechanically for my >-->> wife to use. >-->> >-->> > (That's about the mileage that her current car gets.) >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > ALSO, what body style is this car and would it take my >-->> '83 240D motor? >-->> >-->> > (I know this is the second time I've asked, and last time >-->> conjured up >-->> >-->> > visions of go-karts in John's mind, but maybe the 560SEL >-->> and 450SEL are >-->> >-->> > totally different chassis'?) If yes, I might slap it with my 240D >-->> >-->> > drivetrain (including the rear end?, because the gas one >-->> might be too >-->> >-->> > tall....or not?) and use it myself. >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > I think we're going to drive up the price of popcorn........ >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > Jason >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ----- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 13:11:36 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] Ok, well....if it would take my 240D's OM616, how much slower would it be? In other words, what is the weight difference? Does anybody know what the rear gears would be in this beast natively? I'll check the strutwells thoroughly for rust next time I'm in the neighborhood....they looked OK last time I checked, but I was paying more attention to the underbody. Jason - -- john wrote: the 450 SEL is one I have owned... think it's the 116 body style... it's a 4.5L V8 with single overhead cams... fuel injection, very fussy headers that are prone to cracking and very, very, very expensive to replace... did I mention the expensive header costs? the timing chains should be done periodically... it'll perform comparable to a '68 Mustang with a 289... but the Mustang will win by a slight margin... ;) you'll get around 16mpg if you drive it like I do... on the other hand you can cruise all day at 100 mph with the sunroof open and throughly enjoy the ride, even without cup holders. :) for $500 you could always part it out... yes, your 240d will work in it... it'll be slower than in your 123 because the 116 body style is heavier... but it'll work, also, the rear axle ratio may be lower, so it may come off the line quicker... The SEL indicates it's the super extra long model, with a bit more rear leg room, and associated weight... if it has rust it is structural... they are unibody cars... check for rust around the struts... saw many of the these cars sitting as lowriders, some on the autobahn, when the springs push through and the car drops down onto the suspension... and doesn't go no more... john On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->You guys are going to think I'm a goon after this. I wanted that wagen >-->BAD, but some local guy made it go away first, which I suppose was the >-->goal. Still, I'm very disappointed, because like I said, I really do >-->need a car, and you know I loooooove my Diesel-Benz! >--> >-->So here's the scoop: the overpriced car by the lake is still there. >-->It's not a 560SEL, it's a 450SEL. I have NO IDEA what I was thinking. >-->It's 1974. It does have some rust, which is actually much worse than I >-->remembered it, BUT it's not structural (barely) and I think that I >-->could stop it fairly inexpensively before any real damage is done. >--> >-->WHAT IF....(I know, the two fatal words) I could get it for $500? >-->Because its been for sale so long? (It says "$4500 OR BEST OFFER." You >-->never know.) >--> >-->As a 450SEL, what g*s mileage would it get natively? I don't know if >-->this is a V-6, V-8, or I-6, (I've never looked under the hood...not >-->that serious yet) but if the mileage with WHATEVER it is was at or >-->above 20/25 (city/highway) I'd seriously consider buying it (for $500, >-->not $4500) and just leaving it as-is mechanically for my wife to use. >-->(That's about the mileage that her current car gets.) >--> >-->ALSO, what body style is this car and would it take my '83 240D motor? >-->(I know this is the second time I've asked, and last time conjured up >-->visions of go-karts in John's mind, but maybe the 560SEL and 450SEL are >-->totally different chassis'?) If yes, I might slap it with my 240D >-->drivetrain (including the rear end?, because the gas one might be too >-->tall....or not?) and use it myself. >--> >-->I think we're going to drive up the price of popcorn........ >--> >-->Jason >--> ----- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:06:27 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re2: [db] Oh gracious me frankenWHAT? [popcorn time] By the way, my only reasearch suggests that it may have 2.65:1 rear- end ratio, which would be too high, and have to be changed out for my 240D motor to push it. The weight looks similar, though: 34xx lbs vs. 38xx lbs......but how much of that is motor weight? Will my 500lb diesel motor make it a 41xx lb car? Or is it similar in weight? - -- "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" wrote: Ok, well....if it would take my 240D's OM616, how much slower would it be? In other words, what is the weight difference? Does anybody know what the rear gears would be in this beast natively? I'll check the strutwells thoroughly for rust next time I'm in the neighborhood....they looked OK last time I checked, but I was paying more attention to the underbody. Jason - -- john wrote: the 450 SEL is one I have owned... think it's the 116 body style... it's a 4.5L V8 with single overhead cams... fuel injection, very fussy headers that are prone to cracking and very, very, very expensive to replace... did I mention the expensive header costs? the timing chains should be done periodically... it'll perform comparable to a '68 Mustang with a 289... but the Mustang will win by a slight margin... ;) you'll get around 16mpg if you drive it like I do... on the other hand you can cruise all day at 100 mph with the sunroof open and throughly enjoy the ride, even without cup holders. :) for $500 you could always part it out... yes, your 240d will work in it... it'll be slower than in your 123 because the 116 body style is heavier... but it'll work, also, the rear axle ratio may be lower, so it may come off the line quicker... The SEL indicates it's the super extra long model, with a bit more rear leg room, and associated weight... if it has rust it is structural... they are unibody cars... check for rust around the struts... saw many of the these cars sitting as lowriders, some on the autobahn, when the springs push through and the car drops down onto the suspension... and doesn't go no more... john On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->You guys are going to think I'm a goon after this. I wanted that wagen >-->BAD, but some local guy made it go away first, which I suppose was the >-->goal. Still, I'm very disappointed, because like I said, I really do >-->need a car, and you know I loooooove my Diesel-Benz! >--> >-->So here's the scoop: the overpriced car by the lake is still there. >-->It's not a 560SEL, it's a 450SEL. I have NO IDEA what I was thinking. >-->It's 1974. It does have some rust, which is actually much worse than I >-->remembered it, BUT it's not structural (barely) and I think that I >-->could stop it fairly inexpensively before any real damage is done. >--> >-->WHAT IF....(I know, the two fatal words) I could get it for $500? >-->Because its been for sale so long? (It says "$4500 OR BEST OFFER." You >-->never know.) >--> >-->As a 450SEL, what g*s mileage would it get natively? I don't know if >-->this is a V-6, V-8, or I-6, (I've never looked under the hood...not >-->that serious yet) but if the mileage with WHATEVER it is was at or >-->above 20/25 (city/highway) I'd seriously consider buying it (for $500, >-->not $4500) and just leaving it as-is mechanically for my wife to use. >-->(That's about the mileage that her current car gets.) >--> >-->ALSO, what body style is this car and would it take my '83 240D motor? >-->(I know this is the second time I've asked, and last time conjured up >-->visions of go-karts in John's mind, but maybe the 560SEL and 450SEL are >-->totally different chassis'?) If yes, I might slap it with my 240D >-->drivetrain (including the rear end?, because the gas one might be too >-->tall....or not?) and use it myself. >--> >-->I think we're going to drive up the price of popcorn........ >--> >-->Jason >--> ----- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2347 **********************************