From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 21 15:13:03 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, February 21 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2392 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Re: Vancouver cars Re: [db] Re: Vancouver cars Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:07:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Re: Vancouver cars thanx... so down by the coast it's fine, head up into the hills and rot city... john On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > -->A: They use a LOT of salt back east. Anyone traveling the Trans Canada in > -->winter gets their rig soaked in the stuff (Calcium Chloride too) The passes > -->use salt/gravel mix and so does most of the Lower Mainland from Vancouver > -->out to Hope. (right past where they shot First Blood) > --> > --> > -->it's possible they use salt up a ways from the coast... > -->Even right down at the sound, like by White Rock and along > -->the beach, the cars looked fine... but it doesn't take > -->long to get up into snow country and it's possible they > -->salt the roads up there... don't know, but I can check with > -->a buddy from BC... hey jim... :) > --> > -->john > --> > -->_________________________________________________________________ > -->Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > -->new payment > -->http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-17727&moid=7581 > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:22:22 -0600 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Re: Vancouver cars Alec noticed John's off the cuff comment: >Listen to him go. Go, John, go. ;-) > > > >>>-->John, thanks for your reply. A couple of days ago I spoke to a Saturn >>>-->mechanic and he mentioned that his father had an 89 W124 They had to scrap the car as it had >>> >>> >>severe rust in >> >> >> John asked >> >>gas or Diesel??? what did they do with the driveline??? :-) >> I just got home and saw John's message. I think I pulled a muscle when I reached for the popcorn.... Go, John, go!! ;-) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:18:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... you talking to me? :) that's not a good idea.. ANY motor could be made to fit... might require some welding, sheetmetal work, and yes, even duct tape... :) there may even be laws to restrict your options... emissions... biggest problem with a conversion in a car, especially a nice car, is that it never really works out well unless you spend the money and do some excellent engineering. making things fit in tight spaces and matching what is there, especially with wiring, will not be trivial. if the car is that nice, keep it stock, they should have the problem$ fixed.... at the dealer... part$ will not be cheap... maybe there is someone out there that can fix this for a reasonable price... it's cheap for a good reason... On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Seems the thought is that it's a high-risk even if the rods were >-->redone and nobody wants it and I wouldn't either if I were >-->smart.....but the body is so nice..... >--> >-->OK, then, what other motors would work in it? (Specifically) >--> >-->Jason >--> >-->-- john wrote: >-->high risk. >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >--> >-->>-->I guess the reality is.....I'm considering getting it for my wife; >-->am >-->>-->I inviting more trouble than it's worth? >-->>--> >-->>-->Jason >-->>--> >-->>-->-- "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" wrote: >-->>-->True this.....but wouldn't it be easier to fix the 3.5 if it has >-->>-->indeed had the rod fix done? >-->>--> >-->>-->Jason >-->>--> >-->>-->-- john wrote: >-->>-->if the car is nice enough one might consider the feasibility >-->>-->of purchasing a 2.5L driveline, or even an older 3.0L TD >-->>-->setup and transplanting it. >-->>--> >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->>--> >-->>-->>-->One of my friends has an immaculately maintained, perfectly >-->>-->clean '91 >-->>-->>-->350SD. 230K miles, a 3 inch thick stack of records for things >-->that >-->>-->>-->have been done to it (maint., etc.) and a recently rebuilt >-->>-->>-->transmission that still has 2 years of warranty left. It is >-->>-->SUSPECTED >-->>-->>-->that it has had the rod fix recall done, since it was perfect >-->until >-->>-->>-->shortly ago. Owner will be verifying this. It is a two-owner >-->car; >-->>-->the >-->>-->>-->PO was a well-off man who spared no expense to keep the car >-->>-->perfect, >-->>-->>-->and the current owner has basically done the same. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->The bad: he lent the car to someone who overheated it and >-->cooked >-->>-->the >-->>-->>-->head. His mechanic says it will cost about $2k for the head, >-->and >-->>-->>-->another $1k to get everything right again. He'd about do it, >-->except >-->>-->>-->that he doesn't need the car, and is skeptical of the labor >-->>-->estimate. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->He is willing to let the car go for $2k in its current >-->condition, >-->>-->and >-->>-->>-->somebody could fix it and make it wonderful again. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Interested? E-mail off-list >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Jason >-->>-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> ----- >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->mold >-->>--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> >--> >--> ----- >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:27:04 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... On a more direct approach, the 91 W126 was offerred in the US with that diesel and several gas engines, including the M103 3.0 six, the M116 4.2 V8, and the M117 5.6 V8. Retrofitting any of these may or may not also involve transmission, driveshaft, and differential for the best fit. I suspect that engines available in older W126 models could also be made to work without any (or much) hammering and fabrication, which opens up the possibilities for either 3 liter diesel, the OM617 5 cylinder or the OM603 sixer. Still, I'd pass on this particular deal unless you feel adventurous, which is rarely an advisable approach for the wife's car. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 217K On 2/21/07, john wrote: > you talking to me? :) > > that's not a good idea.. ANY motor > could be made to fit... might require > some welding, sheetmetal work, > and yes, even duct tape... :) > > there may even be laws to restrict your > options... emissions... > > biggest problem with a conversion in > a car, especially a nice car, is that > it never really works out well unless > you spend the money and do some excellent > engineering. making things fit in > tight spaces and matching what is > there, especially with wiring, > will not be trivial. > > if the car is that nice, keep it > stock, they should have the problem$ > fixed.... at the dealer... part$ > will not be cheap... maybe there is > someone out there that can fix this for > a reasonable price... > > it's cheap for a good reason... > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >-->Seems the thought is that it's a high-risk even if the rods were > >-->redone and nobody wants it and I wouldn't either if I were > >-->smart.....but the body is so nice..... > >--> > >-->OK, then, what other motors would work in it? (Specifically) > >--> > >-->Jason > >--> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... > biggest problem with a conversion in > a car, especially a nice car, is that > it never really works out well unless > you spend the money and do some excellent > engineering. *** There's a lady around the corner from me who has an Austin Healey with a Ford Hi-Po 289 in it. Doesn't run. The lady says "It just needs a linkage, do you know anybody who can do that?". I resisted the temptation to go have a look :). I gave her the # of my friend Ron who has a machine shop. - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0500 From: "Jim Hoffman" Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... No, No... Just give her MY number! I've been looking for a 289 HIPO for years! And with an Austin Healy?!? What a bonus! :) Jim > > biggest problem with a conversion in > > a car, especially a nice car, is that > > it never really works out well unless > > you spend the money and do some excellent > > engineering. > > *** There's a lady around the corner from me who has an Austin Healey > with a Ford Hi-Po 289 in it. Doesn't run. The lady says "It just needs > a linkage, do you know anybody who can do that?". I resisted the > temptation to go have a look :). I gave her the # of my friend Ron who > has a machine shop. > > - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... oh man... that must have taken a lot of strength... :) On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >-->>> >-->> biggest problem with a conversion in >-->> a car, especially a nice car, is that >-->> it never really works out well unless >-->> you spend the money and do some excellent >-->> engineering. >--> >-->*** There's a lady around the corner from me who has an Austin Healey >-->with a Ford Hi-Po 289 in it. Doesn't run. The lady says "It just needs >-->a linkage, do you know anybody who can do that?". I resisted the >-->temptation to go have a look :). I gave her the # of my friend Ron who >-->has a machine shop. >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... skip jim... give me the number... I believe my tow bar will work... otherwise I'll buy a car trailer... could be down there by monday... ;) On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, john wrote: >-->oh man... that must have taken a lot of strength... >--> >-->:) >--> >-->On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Jerry Kaidor wrote: >--> >-->>-->>> >-->>-->> biggest problem with a conversion in >-->>-->> a car, especially a nice car, is that >-->>-->> it never really works out well unless >-->>-->> you spend the money and do some excellent >-->>-->> engineering. >-->>--> >-->>-->*** There's a lady around the corner from me who has an Austin Healey >-->>-->with a Ford Hi-Po 289 in it. Doesn't run. The lady says "It just needs >-->>-->a linkage, do you know anybody who can do that?". I resisted the >-->>-->temptation to go have a look :). I gave her the # of my friend Ron who >-->>-->has a machine shop. >-->>--> >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor >-->>--> >--> >--> ----- >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:54:10 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... You could always borrow mine. It's even attached to a turbo diesel dually that I can't really drive right now. In case anyone's wondering, it's a little difficult driving a clutch with a broken ankle :-/ On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 02:53:55PM -0800, john wrote: > skip jim... give me the number... I believe my > tow bar will work... otherwise I'll buy a car trailer... > > could be down there by monday... ;) > > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, john wrote: > > >-->oh man... that must have taken a lot of strength... > >--> > >-->:) > >--> > >-->On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > >--> > >-->>-->>> > >-->>-->> biggest problem with a conversion in > >-->>-->> a car, especially a nice car, is that > >-->>-->> it never really works out well unless > >-->>-->> you spend the money and do some excellent > >-->>-->> engineering. > >-->>--> > >-->>-->*** There's a lady around the corner from me who has an Austin Healey > >-->>-->with a Ford Hi-Po 289 in it. Doesn't run. The lady says "It just needs > >-->>-->a linkage, do you know anybody who can do that?". I resisted the > >-->>-->temptation to go have a look :). I gave her the # of my friend Ron who > >-->>-->has a machine shop. > >-->>--> > >-->>--> - Jerry Kaidor > >-->>--> > >--> > >--> ----- > >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--> > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:57:33 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... Adventurous is definitely not the right answer for the wife's car, but I wonder why you say it would be so? If the rod job was done by the original owner and the head is replaced, wherein lies the adventure? BTW, is that an I-6 or V-6? As for why it's so cheap: (I know this because the guy is a friend of mine) he doesn't want to mess with it, and figures it will cost about $4k to fix, because he won't do any of the work himself. Doing everything myself, I know I can do it for less than half that. Rusty quoted me $1620 for a head for it, presumably new. Junkyards have quoted me $1250 delivered for a good used one. (Are there any disadvantages to used ones?) I dunno....where's the adventure? (His shop told him the head was cooked, so I'm figuring that the head is indeed the [only] problem. Maybe dangerous to assume......) Remember.....it's papered! Jason - -- "Alec Cordova" wrote: On a more direct approach, the 91 W126 was offerred in the US with that diesel and several gas engines, including the M103 3.0 six, the M116 4.2 V8, and the M117 5.6 V8. Retrofitting any of these may or may not also involve transmission, driveshaft, and differential for the best fit. I suspect that engines available in older W126 models could also be made to work without any (or much) hammering and fabrication, which opens up the possibilities for either 3 liter diesel, the OM617 5 cylinder or the OM603 sixer. Still, I'd pass on this particular deal unless you feel adventurous, which is rarely an advisable approach for the wife's car. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 217K On 2/21/07, john wrote: > you talking to me? :) > > that's not a good idea.. ANY motor > could be made to fit... might require > some welding, sheetmetal work, > and yes, even duct tape... :) > > there may even be laws to restrict your > options... emissions... > > biggest problem with a conversion in > a car, especially a nice car, is that > it never really works out well unless > you spend the money and do some excellent > engineering. making things fit in > tight spaces and matching what is > there, especially with wiring, > will not be trivial. > > if the car is that nice, keep it > stock, they should have the problem$ > fixed.... at the dealer... part$ > will not be cheap... maybe there is > someone out there that can fix this for > a reasonable price... > > it's cheap for a good reason... > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > >-->Seems the thought is that it's a high-risk even if the rods were > >-->redone and nobody wants it and I wouldn't either if I were > >-->smart.....but the body is so nice..... > >--> > >-->OK, then, what other motors would work in it? (Specifically) > >--> > >-->Jason > >--> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:05:10 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Gem or junk? U decide... It is extremely uncommon for a 3.5L to eat its head. If they got it hot enough to warp the head, you should assume that there was probably damage to the cylinder bores/liners that you're going to find when you take the head off. You might get lucky. The last diesel I had apart that overheated ovalled one of the cylinders so bad that it was low on compression (mid 100s for that slug, and in the high 300s for the others), and the sleeve had to be replaced, as well as the ovalled piston. This engine is an inline, which somewhat explains the cost of the head. Beware, some of the used heads from junkyard, while good, will require some cleanup. Given past experience with the 87 300D, I'd probably buy the $1620 head if new over the $1200 used one. The adventure is in giving SWMBO a cobbled together car. It's far easier in the long run (and cheaper if you consider psych meds you'll end up taking) to just have SWMBO drive something modern that you take to the mechanic. While tinkering is amusing, she is rarely amused when you're tinkering with her car and she has to drive something you cobbled together in the meantime. Unless she has a saturn. One friend who borrowed the 87 300D noted that a 20 year old mercedes with almost 400k on it handled better, rode better, and had better get up and go than her saturn with less than half the miles, and because of that, didn't notice any of the car's weird quirks. On Wed, Feb 21, 2007 at 10:57:33PM +0000, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Adventurous is definitely not the right answer for the wife's car, but > I wonder why you say it would be so? If the rod job was done by the > original owner and the head is replaced, wherein lies the adventure? > BTW, is that an I-6 or V-6? > > As for why it's so cheap: (I know this because the guy is a friend of > mine) he doesn't want to mess with it, and figures it will cost about > $4k to fix, because he won't do any of the work himself. Doing > everything myself, I know I can do it for less than half that. Rusty > quoted me $1620 for a head for it, presumably new. Junkyards have > quoted me $1250 delivered for a good used one. (Are there any > disadvantages to used ones?) > > I dunno....where's the adventure? (His shop told him the head was > cooked, so I'm figuring that the head is indeed the [only] problem. > Maybe dangerous to assume......) Remember.....it's papered! ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2392 **********************************