From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 1 19:40:00 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 2 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2404 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] adventures in snow... Re: [db] adventures in snow... Re: [db] adventures in snow... [db] snow Re: [db] snow Re: [db] snow Re: [db] adventures in snow... [db] w123 emergency indicators Re: [db] adventures in snow... [db] OT: Problem with Spark Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators Re: [db] snow Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 06:52:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] adventures in snow... john wrote: > > > we moved the lawn on Saturday... *** Wow. How'd you do that? Got one of those specialized lawn trucks? - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:31:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] adventures in snow... well, actually, need to move the lawn moWer... it's got about a foot of snow on it up in the yard. :) john On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Jon Filina wrote: > -->John reported: > --> > -->>we moved the lawn on Saturday... it rained Monday & Tuesday. :) > -->> > --> > -->Where'd you "move " the lawn to? > --> > -->;-) > --> > -->Sorry, couldn't resist the typo. > --> > -->It's warmed up here in Texas and I'll be needing my lawn "moved", too... > --> > -->Jon > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:33:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] adventures in snow... speaking of typos... I submitted my research proposal for final review to my committee... in the email I referred to it as my "propostal". :) john On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->john wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> we moved the lawn on Saturday... >-->*** Wow. How'd you do that? Got one of those specialized lawn trucks? >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor >--> >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:39:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] snow http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/ALL.html ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:13:23 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: [db] snow Yeah, we had a cold front come through here last night, too. Only gonna reach about 72 degrees in Austin today. On 3/1/07, john wrote: > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/ALL.html > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:34:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] snow ya want to borrow my lawnmower? it's sitting in the upper yard, right by the drive... ;) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/P1070096.jpg john On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > -->Yeah, we had a cold front come through here last night, too. Only > -->gonna reach about 72 degrees in Austin today. > --> > --> > -->On 3/1/07, john wrote: > -->> http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/ALL.html > -->> > -->> ----- > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:53:03 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] adventures in snow... On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 06:05:44PM -0800, john wrote: > coming down the drive was another adventure... tried to park the benz in > the drive up a ways, but couldn't get much past the WJ... snow wasn't letting > me go forward. :) I had my own little unexpected snow adventure when I finally made it up to the new house last night. Haven't been there for a while, since breaking my ankle and trying to avoid the cold like I'd find up there. Sure enough, it was cold, and my ankle really didn't appreciate it. Anyways, I headed up to get the trailer with the big dodge, and upon stopping at the mailbox saw a little snow. No big, right? Start driving down the private road, and there is a LOT of snow on the side of the road, like from plowing. Get to my driveway, and it's not too trashed, but it's late so I don't take too close of a look. Driveway's a straight shot with no fences unlike John's, so I'm not too concerned about it. Until this morning when I tried to hook up the trailer. I don't know what it is about this truck, but it *REALLY* hates snow. Or, it really likes it. Because it gets stuck in it. Dropping the trailer wasn't going to change things. 4 HI didn't get it out either, needed 4 LO, and even then some rocking was required. I'll hook up the white 300D on the trailer tonight and bring it up to the house. Ironically I was avoiding driving it to the house because I was afraid it would never leave, well, now that seems to be the case anyways since it got hit. And the funny part is I'm only at about 2500 feet, near Sacramento. I was totally not expecting snow, much less that much. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:07:42 +0000 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: [db] w123 emergency indicators Hi folks, I'm stumped... my indicators are on the blink (so wheres the issue says you.. har har), my turn signals work (altho the lights on the dash don't always flash), but when I put on the emergency indicators/flashers I get a buzzing noise from the relay. So, I bought a new relay.. same deal... I cleaned the switch, same deal .. and used a known working switch (from my other w123) .. the relay STILL buzzes... Any ideas what the cause could be? Bad ground? Bad connection to one of the lights? How would I test it? Any help appreciated! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:04:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] adventures in snow... Kevin wrote: > > And the funny part is I'm only at about 2500 feet, near Sacramento. > I was totally not expecting snow, much less that much. > *** I just visited my friend Erik up the hills past Sutter Creek this past weekend. He's at 2600 feet. And, no, there was no snow. Thankfully. I don't know how well my wife's SSR would have coped. Badly, I suspect. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:16:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: [db] OT: Problem with Spark OK, this is something that dieselers don't worry about much.... My '99 Astro cargo van is driving me nuts. It's got an intermittant ignition problem. Three cylinders are solid, three are intermittant. Only happens at certain throttle and load combinations. Until it gets really bad - then it just runs like -at-#$# at all settings. Same three cylinders intermittant every time. It is indeed spark - I verified it with a inductive-pickup timing light. Not to time anything, you understand - just to see it flash or not flash. On the bad cylinders, the flash does not happen when the engine stumbles. It mostly happens on early cold wet mornings. We've been having a lot of those lately. What could intermittantly trash three cylinders? So far, I've replaced * the sparkplugs * The wires ( twice ) * The distributor cap ( twice ) * the rotor * the ignition coil ( on the theory that if the spark is weak, those three cylinders might have a slightly greater gap or more rounded electrode or ??? The next slug in the shotgun is the "ignition controller module" which looks basically like a power transistor in a fitted case. But before I do that, I'm setting up to hook my lab scope to the primary circuit. So that I can troubleshoot it first thing tomorrow morning. When it's cold. Or maybe I should run to the store for a can of freeze.... - Jerry "need a diesel truck" Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 17:07:27 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators Isn't there also a fuse involved? pull it out to be really sure whether it's broken or not. just looking at the fuse, and even spinning it in it's holder, may not be a sufficient test. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 217K On 3/1/07, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm stumped... my indicators are on the blink (so wheres the issue > says you.. har har), my turn signals work (altho the lights on the > dash don't always flash), but when I put on the emergency > indicators/flashers I get a buzzing noise from the relay. So, I bought > a new relay.. same deal... I cleaned the switch, same deal .. and used > a known working switch (from my other w123) .. the relay STILL > buzzes... > Any ideas what the cause could be? Bad ground? Bad connection to one > of the lights? How would I test it? > Any help appreciated! > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:23:07 -0500 (EST) From: ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net Subject: Re: [db] snow Geez John, That's just a bit of dusting, wouldn't want to think you NW tough types act like they do in DC?!!? Edward > ya want to borrow my lawnmower? it's sitting in the upper yard, right > by the drive... ;) > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/P1070096.jpg > > john > > On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > >> -->Yeah, we had a cold front come through here last night, too. Only >> -->gonna reach about 72 degrees in Austin today. >> --> >> --> >> -->On 3/1/07, john wrote: >> -->> http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-1-Snow/ALL.html >> -->> >> -->> ----- >> -->> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >> mold >> -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >> -->> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --> >> --> > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:30:18 -0500 (EST) From: ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net Subject: Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark Jerome, If this thing has a single coil and a new cap and rotor on it, the next question is, how does the electronic module pick up the signal to fire the cylinders. My odd engineering brain tells me that it might use a hall effect sensor set next to a sprocket with teeth that tell the module when to fire. If for some odd reason the sensor gap is too large or there is crud on the reluctor sprocket or it has some teeth missing, or there is water inside the hall sensor (look for cracked insulation down there) this might be the cause as opposed to the module itself. A can of freeze spray on the module would also help eliminate that part as a suspect. Just a thought. Edward > OK, this is something that dieselers don't worry about much.... > > My '99 Astro cargo van is driving me nuts. It's got an intermittant > ignition problem. Three cylinders are solid, three are intermittant. > Only > happens at certain throttle and load combinations. Until it gets really > bad - > then it just runs like -at-#$# at all settings. Same three cylinders > intermittant > every time. > > It is indeed spark - I verified it with a inductive-pickup timing > light. > Not to time anything, you understand - just to see it flash or not flash. > On > the bad cylinders, the flash does not happen when the engine stumbles. > > It mostly happens on early cold wet mornings. We've been having a lot > of those lately. What could intermittantly trash three cylinders? > > So far, I've replaced > * the sparkplugs > * The wires ( twice ) > * The distributor cap ( twice ) > * the rotor > * the ignition coil > ( on the theory that if the spark is weak, those three cylinders might > have a slightly greater gap or more rounded electrode or ??? > > The next slug in the shotgun is the "ignition controller module" which > looks basically like a power transistor in a fitted case. But before I > do that, I'm setting up to hook my lab scope to the primary circuit. So > that > I can troubleshoot it first thing tomorrow morning. When it's cold. Or > maybe > I should run to the store for a can of freeze.... > > - Jerry "need a diesel truck" Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:56:29 +0000 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators aha! Will check in the morning! On 3/1/07, Alec Cordova wrote: > Isn't there also a fuse involved? pull it out to be really sure > whether it's broken or not. just looking at the fuse, and even > spinning it in it's holder, may not be a sufficient test. > > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 89 300CE, 217K > > On 3/1/07, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > I'm stumped... my indicators are on the blink (so wheres the issue > > says you.. har har), my turn signals work (altho the lights on the > > dash don't always flash), but when I put on the emergency > > indicators/flashers I get a buzzing noise from the relay. So, I bought > > a new relay.. same deal... I cleaned the switch, same deal .. and used > > a known working switch (from my other w123) .. the relay STILL > > buzzes... > > Any ideas what the cause could be? Bad ground? Bad connection to one > > of the lights? How would I test it? > > Any help appreciated! > > > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:16:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: > > Jerome, > > If this thing has a single coil and a new cap and rotor on it, the next > question is, how does the electronic module pick up the signal to fire the > cylinders. My odd engineering brain tells me that it might use a hall > effect sensor *** Yes, indeed. But how would a crudded-up hall sensor cause three specific cylinders ( and not the other three ) to misfire? set next to a sprocket with teeth that tell the module when > to fire. If for some odd reason the sensor gap is too large or there is > crud on the reluctor sprocket or it has some teeth missing, or there is > water inside the hall sensor (look for cracked insulation down there) this > might be the cause as opposed to the module itself. A can of freeze spray > on the module would also help eliminate that part as a suspect. > *** Sprayed a whole can of freeze on the module, no joy. - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:12:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] OT: Problem with Spark hall effect sensors can fail in any number of ways... they are semiconductor devices and can become intermittent. they are isolated from their cases so thermal shock is unlikely to help in testing.... john On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->ejpomeroy-at-qtm.net wrote: >-->> >-->> Jerome, >-->> >-->> If this thing has a single coil and a new cap and rotor on it, the next >-->> question is, how does the electronic module pick up the signal to fire the >-->> cylinders. My odd engineering brain tells me that it might use a hall >-->> effect sensor >-->*** Yes, indeed. But how would a crudded-up hall sensor cause three specific >-->cylinders ( and not the other three ) to misfire? >--> >-->set next to a sprocket with teeth that tell the module when >-->> to fire. If for some odd reason the sensor gap is too large or there is >-->> crud on the reluctor sprocket or it has some teeth missing, or there is >-->> water inside the hall sensor (look for cracked insulation down there) this >-->> might be the cause as opposed to the module itself. A can of freeze spray >-->> on the module would also help eliminate that part as a suspect. >-->> >-->*** Sprayed a whole can of freeze on the module, no joy. >--> >--> - Jerry Kaidor >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 19:39:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] w123 emergency indicators bad ground is my guess... corroded contacts? my coolant sensor issue was corrosion... john On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > -->Hi folks, > --> > -->I'm stumped... my indicators are on the blink (so wheres the issue > -->says you.. har har), my turn signals work (altho the lights on the > -->dash don't always flash), but when I put on the emergency > -->indicators/flashers I get a buzzing noise from the relay. So, I bought > -->a new relay.. same deal... I cleaned the switch, same deal .. and used > -->a known working switch (from my other w123) .. the relay STILL > -->buzzes... > -->Any ideas what the cause could be? Bad ground? Bad connection to one > -->of the lights? How would I test it? > -->Any help appreciated! > --> > -->Steve > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2404 **********************************