From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 23 06:44:14 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 23 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2423 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Re: xj: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? [db] sneak preview... (popcorn ready?) Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:58:18 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? vintage air is probably the easiest, second easiest will be finding a complete factory setup (!). Floating gears isn't really hard on the syncros if you match everything up right. Otherwise, it's murder. On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 08:33:20PM +0000, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Yeah, but isn't that going to be a royal pain? Adding AC is > no "minimally invasive surgery," and the automatics are often diferent > lengths than the manuals, requiring shaft replacements and sometimes > xfer cases to be moved! Maybe you could float gears or > something.....there's gotta be another way to save John's back......my > company's '94 GMC Sonoma floats gears like a charm once you get used > to it.......gotta be hard on the sychros, though........ > > However, changing things behind the engine is usually easier than > changing the whole drivetrain from fan to axle.......also, > transmissions are lighter than bodies........dunno; maybe the clutch > won't bother you on this one? [Your pain will be drowned out by the > intense feeling of euphoria you attain as your diesel powerplant > klatta-klatta-s down the road and you won't feel it? Pass the popcorn] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Yeah, but isn't that going to be a royal pain? Adding AC is >-->no "minimally invasive surgery," and the automatics are often diferent >-->lengths than the manuals, requiring shaft replacements and sometimes >-->xfer cases to be moved! Maybe you could float gears or >-->something.....there's gotta be another way to save John's back......my >-->company's '94 GMC Sonoma floats gears like a charm once you get used >-->to it.......gotta be hard on the sychros, though........ those 4 speeds require the clutch... had one in my '77 Cherokee... nice trannies... and for the most part the seating is such that my back isn't severely impacted. You can ask Bruce about my back... we were standing around looking at his Diesel Benzes and my leg acted up... scared him... really spazzed out on me... had to sit down right away... can not stand for very long or that happens... can walk and sit all day, but can't stand or run any more. :( as far as the differences, the 727 was used behind this engine in the cj10s and a few other rigs, xfr case is a dana 300 this year, but others can be mated up... driveshafts will cost $200-300 to modify, not a big cost overall. as far as the AC, on the FSJs and IHs adding AC after the fact isn't hard, hangs under the dash... brackets on the engine, pop the plugs in the firewall... add a belt. ;) they changed the ac in '80 on the scouts so that will make it a little more challenging... chances are I won't be using this on the freeway for long trips so not having a/c won't be an issue. we'll see... this was built when the double nickel was in force... my '82 Ford Ranger with a Diesel was very unhappy at anything over 55. mileage dropped drastically... hopefully the scout will be ok at 65 to 70. >-->However, changing things behind the engine is usually easier than >-->changing the whole drivetrain from fan to axle.......also, >-->transmissions are lighter than bodies........dunno; maybe the clutch >-->won't bother you on this one? [Your pain will be drowned out by the >-->intense feeling of euphoria you attain as your diesel powerplant >-->klatta-klatta-s down the road and you won't feel it? Pass the popcorn] another thought is to use the T-5 from my J10 so I can get freeway speeds out of this thing... should hold up to the 100 horses... :) john >--> >-->Jason >--> >-->-- john wrote: >-->will get pix later... >--> >-->only two downsides to this rig, manual trans and no a/c, >-->both of which were options and parts are available, so it's >-->not a show stopper. >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >--> >-->>-->Do it, Mr. Popcorn-ent. >-->>--> >-->>-->This is probably about the best thing to happen to you in years. A >-->>-->ready-made, Jeep-like diesel 4x4 is almost impossible to find, as >-->you >-->>-->know, unless you like big old Jimmy's, which you apparently aren't >-->too >-->>-->keen on. If you like this thing, it certainly sounds like a slam >-->dunk. >-->>--> >-->>-->Got pix? >-->>--> >-->>-->J >-->>--> >-->>-->-- john wrote: >-->>-->for some reason my back wasn't bothered with the stick >-->>-->in my J10... or my '77 Cherokee... only in XJs. >-->>--> >-->>-->jim and I were chatting about swapping in a 727 out of a CJ10 >-->>-->setup with the same engine... might work. >-->>--> >-->>-->wouldn't chop it up... only thing I might consider >-->>-->is putting round headlights in it. ;) >-->>--> >-->>-->and getting a softtop for it... >-->>--> >-->>-->with the scout I'd have all I'm looking for, if the >-->>-->ride was tolerable. >-->>--> >-->>-->top off... pickup... >-->>-->back seat in... passengers... >-->>-->dual fuel... 20 in town, 25+ on the highway >-->>-->4x4... >-->>--> >-->>-->classic... >-->>--> >-->>-->I may even float a loan to get this... would sell >-->>-->off the entire fleet the ride is tolerable... ;) >-->>-->even the fun little cj... no need for a cj with a scout, right? >-->>--> >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Kevin wrote: >-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Scouts are pretty wicked beasts, and that vintage is actually >-->>-->quite similar >-->>-->>-->to a full size jeep. Well, except the electrical gremlins ;) >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Trans is a T-19 if manual, 727 if auto. Turbodiesel scouts are >-->>-->incredibly >-->>-->>-->uncommon. Jim really likes that 3.3L nissan diesel for some >-->>-->reason. They're >-->>-->>-->decent enough I guess. Axles are dana 44 front and rear, think >-->the >-->>-->transfercase >-->>-->>-->is a dana 300. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Scout will be two door, and remind you more of a cherokee. Not >-->as >-->>-->many >-->>-->>-->refinements as a GW, and certainly not a pickup. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->For a good price, I'd probably go for it. I would certainly not >-->>-->even consider >-->>-->>-->parting/chopping/etc one in good condition, as they are >-->incredibly >-->>-->uncommon >-->>-->>-->(especially the 1980, a strike killed off IHC's light duty line >-->>-->that year). >-->>-->>-->Probably will have a heavy clutch like a FSJ usually does when >-->>-->equipped thus, >-->>-->>-->which probably won't make your back too happy. Could always >-->flip >-->>-->it with an >-->>-->>-->ad on craigslist saying something like "wheel on biodiesel" or >-->>-->something. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->K >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 08:25:15PM -0700, john wrote: >-->>-->>-->> ran across another factory Diesel setup... guy >-->>-->>-->> won't trade the GW... wants about 9k for it... >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> found an '80 scout with a factory nissan turbo diesel, >-->>-->>-->> always garaged and only used as a hunting rig , >-->>-->>-->> all original paperwork including sticker,build sheet and >-->>-->>-->> sales slip with warranty info included, 4 speed trans, >-->>-->>-->> factory paint that still shines and all doors shut like a >-->band >-->>-->new car >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> so... is an '80 scout with a turbo Diesel even in the >-->>-->>-->> same class as a Grand Wagoneer or a J10? :) >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> it has a removeable top... :) >-->>-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> ----- >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->mold >-->>--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> >--> >--> ----- >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:23:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > -->A: John, look at the chart. (someone didn't convert it correctly) 101 KW -at- > -->3800 RPM = 143 HP -at- 3800 RPM. > -->From: john > -->Subject: xj: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? > -->the specs below match the 2nd link in your other email... > -->so the info you have here from the landrover page is wrong. nope, you're wrong Jim... just got back from looking at the Scout. STAMPED right on the engine: SAE NET HORSEPOWER 101 HP / 3800 RPM (so actually the specs below have RPM wrong. ;) Specs for 1980 Turbo Diesel: Make..........................International Harvester Model.........................Scout II Year..........................1980 Engine........................SD33T by Nissan Type..........................4-cycle Diesel Configuration.................Inline 6-cylinder Displacement..................198 cu. in. (3.2 litres) Bore & Stroke.................3.27 x 3.94 in. Compression Ratio.............21:1 Carburetion...................Direct fuel injection Aspiration....................Turbocharged (max boost 6.5 PSI) SAE Net Horsepower............101 -at- 3100 RPM SAE Net Torque (lb/ft)........175 -at- 2200 RPM MPG...........................City: 20 Hiway: 25 Transmission..................Four-speed manual Gear Ratios............1st....4.02:1 2nd....2.41:1 3rd....1.41:1 4th....1.00:1 Final Drive....3.73:1 Transfer Case.................Dana 300 two-speed Gear Ratios............4L.....2.62:1 4H.....1.00:1 Brakes........................Disc/Drum, power assisted Suspension....................Live axles, leaf springs, single shocks Steering......................Power assisted Tire & Wheel size.............30", 15 x 8 Wheelbase.....................100 in. Length........................184.2 in. GVWR..........................6200 lbs. Ground Clearance..............7.6 in. Fuel Capacity.................19 gal. 1980. New plastic grille shell with square headlights. Standard window frames and bumpers are black instead of gray. New caster/camber specs for front axle (2.5 degrees and .5 degrees) to improve front tire wear. 15" styled steering wh eel is standard, Nissan Turbo Diesel offered, polycast wheels, 2.72, 3.31, 3.54, and 3.73 were axle ratios, TC-146 Dana 300 transfer case, new air conditioning housing which is full width of dash (introduced during '79 model year). 85mph speedo head in place of 100mph, Scout decals on rear quarters, stick-on vinyl side trim in place of stainless steel, power steering is standard, black manual locking hubs with Scout id, no T-332 or T-427 deep low tra nsmissions in Traveler, Tartan Blue is blue interior color, brushed satin trim on dash. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] sneak preview... (popcorn ready?) looked at the '80 scout turbo Diesel battery dead, keys not there. :( rougher than I expected for the price... about $9k... snapped some pix... (jim b. note HP rating on the valve cover. ;) I'm first in line though... will test drive in a day or two... supposedly it'll do 75mph with pedal left... 3.73 gears it's not a freeway cruiser, but it has more potential than my '48 cj-2a :) wife won't object... http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/scout/ALL.html get that popcorn ready, could be an interesting weekend... finally talked to Curtis... he's been working on big trucks for the last month at a trucking company... his win98 computer broke, off the network... promises SuperDawg by mid-summer... said that the 727 takes Dextron II, he used Dextron III and that's when his trans problem started. my wife suggests I put the 6.2 into the Grand Wagoneer... I'm thinking that might just work... the GW is TOGETHER, HERE and doesn't need a tremendous amount of work... While the Scout will be a blast locally it's not a road trippin' machine... wind noise alone would drive me batty before we hit the pass. :) But it'll be a kick with a bikini top... 20 mpg commuting on veggie oil... of course if I put the 6.2 into the GW maybe we could part with the WJ... nah...not likely would put this 360 into SuperDawg, fix it up and maybe hold on to it for a while... with 4.10 gears it would be quite snappy... ;) probably sell it if the GW works out properly... love the dawg, but since I got Omega running properly I've taken a bit more liking to him... the GW has a better turning radius, up to date wiring, etc. Omega and the Scout, along with the WJ... Two Diesels... last of their breeds too... sniff... currently Omega really has a real drinking problem.... :) two trips to work, one trip to Barney's for Pastrami, one trip up the hill... and his low fuel light it on... dang... Shadowfax has gone ten times as far and still has half a tank... (smaller one too!) pass me some popcorn. ;) in other news... noticed that Diesel is LESS than gasoline!!!!! :) here's some local pix... also some old pix... yes, that's burt reynolds, and the guy on the mustang is me... a "few" years back... also the chaplin of the seahawks showing me his new championship ring last weekend. http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-22-misc-jeeps-scenes/ happy Friday. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 23:57:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Yeah, but isn't that going to be a royal pain? Adding AC is >-->no "minimally invasive surgery," and the automatics are often diferent after looking at the scout, but not driving it... thinking, no need for A/C... the top comes off the Scout, would get a rag top or the bikini top for it... would be fun for tooling around town, wheeling... etc. thinking that the scout would replace the willys cj-2a and the J10. put the 6.2 in the GW and replace the Benz. that would leave us with the WJ, GW and the scout... and the trailer. could pull the trailer with all of them... 2 Diesels/veggie oil... GW would be my choice for road trips... scout for short fun trips... wheeling... the cj-2a is almost done... turning out nice... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/03-March-22-misc-jeeps-scenes/Willys/ would put the 360 V8 in the J10, with 4.10s and the V8 ... could be trouble... ;) this will require some popcorn... '99 wj, '91 GW and '80 scout (simple... use the old popcorn oil in two of them... ;) or '99 wj, '91 300d, '91 GW, '83 J10, '48 CJ-2a or '99 wj, '91 300d and '83 J10 and '48 CJ-2a could I really part with shadowfax and superdawg??? ...haven't seen superdawg in six years... carries one passenger... omega is here, carries four or five... shorter wheelbase, tighter turning radius, factory sunroof... reclining seats... GW seems a better option than J10, yeah, the J10 is cooler, but that doesn't impress my bride... :) so, will the sun shine in seattle?? (at least it stops long enough to mow the grass...) hmm.... someone pass the salt... and some butter please... :) any one want to help put the 6.2 in the GW this weekend? I'm caught up on my homework... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:30:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? not refined is an understatement. :) but it looks to be way more fun than the CJ-2A... and more practical... john On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Kevin wrote: >-->Scouts are pretty wicked beasts, and that vintage is actually quite similar >-->to a full size jeep. Well, except the electrical gremlins ;) >--> >-->Trans is a T-19 if manual, 727 if auto. Turbodiesel scouts are incredibly >-->uncommon. Jim really likes that 3.3L nissan diesel for some reason. They're >-->decent enough I guess. Axles are dana 44 front and rear, think the transfercase >-->is a dana 300. >--> >-->Scout will be two door, and remind you more of a cherokee. Not as many >-->refinements as a GW, and certainly not a pickup. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:34:36 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Ummm.....I gotta say that $9k sounds a bit steep for that scout.....it's kinda rusty, though not seriously, and a bit worn, too. It needs a lot of freshening up, from the look of it. If you can work him down some, maybe its a good buy, but I doubt it at $9k. Jason - -- john wrote: not refined is an understatement. :) but it looks to be way more fun than the CJ-2A... and more practical... john On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Kevin wrote: >-->Scouts are pretty wicked beasts, and that vintage is actually quite similar >-->to a full size jeep. Well, except the electrical gremlins ;) >--> >-->Trans is a T-19 if manual, 727 if auto. Turbodiesel scouts are incredibly >-->uncommon. Jim really likes that 3.3L nissan diesel for some reason. They're >-->decent enough I guess. Axles are dana 44 front and rear, think the transfercase >-->is a dana 300. >--> >-->Scout will be two door, and remind you more of a cherokee. Not as many >-->refinements as a GW, and certainly not a pickup. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2423 **********************************