From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Mar 25 11:36:31 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, March 25 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2425 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] alternate fuels paper Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel [db] 93 W124 ip [db] OT - math help needed... [db] Tragedy of Storage Space Re: [db] Tragedy of Storage Space Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] alternate fuels paper updated... finished... http://wagoneers.com/CS/Science/TMGT621_project-AlternateFuels.pdf (fellow 621 types... this is WAY more than what was required... don't panic... I can't remember who wanted to see this, if you didn't just nuke this email, see y'all Friday. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel I don't think you'll build pressure in the system with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding the air there... if you think that is an issue, then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... john On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > -->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. > --> > -->John & DB Gang: > --> > -->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the so-so manuals on > -->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors and the fuel > -->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head valves, cleaned > -->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled same back > -->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start to finish. > -->Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each collar nut just finger tight > -->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and at the > -->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with all this loose, > -->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all the air, and > -->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I planned to > -->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). > --> > -->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank the engine > -->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. > --> > -->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now horizontal, and > -->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no diesel seems > -->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually sure what the > -->lever does to be honest. > --> > -->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the diesel back in > -->the lines..... HELP!!! > --> > -->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:47:46 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Yep - all the high pressure parts are tight to about 18 tp 20 ft lbs. Only the lines are loose. I am charging the battery as it ran down after a few crankings, the car has been in storage for the last 4 months. The rains these past 3 days have washed most of the salt off the roads, which is when I get the diesel ready for commuting again. Will call it a day and go back in the morning to try again. Maybe with full power cranking will push fuel up the lines. Thanks for the fast reply, Edward john wrote: >I don't think you'll build pressure in the system >with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding >the air there... if you think that is an issue, > >then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... > >john > > >On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > > >>-->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. >>--> >>-->John & DB Gang: >>--> >>-->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the so-so manuals on >>-->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors and the fuel >>-->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head valves, cleaned >>-->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled same back >>-->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start to finish. >>-->Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each collar nut just finger tight >>-->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and at the >>-->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with all this loose, >>-->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all the air, and >>-->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I planned to >>-->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). >>--> >>-->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank the engine >>-->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. >>--> >>-->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now horizontal, and >>-->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no diesel seems >>-->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually sure what the >>-->lever does to be honest. >>--> >>-->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the diesel back in >>-->the lines..... HELP!!! >>--> >>-->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! >>--> >>--> >> >> > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:01:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel It's been a while since I did this... did I make any comments on my page? I vaguely remember it running like crap initially... I also remember getting a ticket for doing nearly 90mph in a 60 going up the US 2 hill off of the Hewitt Avenue trestle to SR 9 to test it afterwards for leaks... I've had gas powered vehicles that could barely hit 70 up that hill... the 450SEL had no problems hitting triple digits... of course I won't use this as a test track again... :) it's safe, but didn't expect an authority figure to be sitting on the other side of the road at the on ramp... :) The gentleman understood my explanation and logic, reduced the fine and suggested explaining it to a judge to get it cleared completely. I just decided to pay the fine... no other way of testing it, but still... shouldn't have been doing that... really miss the Autobahn. :) john On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->Yep - all the high pressure parts are tight to about 18 tp 20 ft lbs. >-->Only the lines are loose. >--> >-->I am charging the battery as it ran down after a few crankings, the car >-->has been in storage for the last 4 months. The rains these past 3 days >-->have washed most of the salt off the roads, which is when I get the >-->diesel ready for commuting again. >--> >-->Will call it a day and go back in the morning to try again. Maybe with >-->full power cranking will push fuel up the lines. >--> >-->Thanks for the fast reply, >-->Edward >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>I don't think you'll build pressure in the system >-->>with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding >-->>the air there... if you think that is an issue, >-->> >-->>then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->> >-->>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->John & DB Gang: >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the so-so manuals on >-->>>-->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors and the fuel >-->>>-->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head valves, cleaned >-->>>-->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled same back >-->>>-->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start to finish. >-->>>-->Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each collar nut just finger tight >-->>>-->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and at the >-->>>-->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with all this loose, >-->>>-->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all the air, and >-->>>-->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I planned to >-->>>-->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank the engine >-->>>-->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now horizontal, and >-->>>-->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no diesel seems >-->>>-->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually sure what the >-->>>-->lever does to be honest. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the diesel back in >-->>>-->the lines..... HELP!!! >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ----- >-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:13:07 -0500 From: "wmpless" Subject: [db] 93 W124 ip 93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. John & DB Gang: Last fall I changed the copper washer and the o-rings on my car. Tightened all connections and after cranking engine a bit the normal noise started. Would like to suggest, "put some diesel in the tank", tighten the fuel lines and crank the engine a couple of times. Engine should run if nothing else was disturbed. Cheers Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:08:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] OT - math help needed... I'm almost done with my TMCP... trying to make a point, need some help with a math problem... HEADS UP and EE types out there... this should be right up your alley... here's the table I'd like to populate: mAh battery | voltage | | avg XP minutes | | | avg XP power | | | | avg SuSE minutes | | | | | avg SuSE power 4700 11.1 132 161.8 6600 10.8 216 266 4700 11.1 171 215 4700 11.1 155 198.8 6600 11.1 313 407 8400 10.8 168 230 3600 11.1 79 111 4000 11.1 109 156 7600 10.8 154 242 3600 14.4 75 123 4400 14.8 181 302 I'm trying to calculate the average power used when in XP and when in SuSE. mAh's, voltage and time... it's late, I'm tired... :) Are you with me? I've been at this all day... finished a 58 page paper for the legal class on alternate fuels, then have been working on this capstone project... it's only 56 pages... Anyway, this calculation is frosting on the cake, would like to have it to drive the point home. Will take the KHW * 0.08 * a number of laptop users over an 8 hour period of time, showing an average of 26.3% power savings using Linux and show a dollar value... I'm almost done! Soon I'll be able to do something fun, like work on my vehicles... (of course I have a pile of "honey do" items to do... some of those involve a shovel, some involve hitching up the hydraulic dump trailer and playing with dirt... :) thanx, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:08:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: [db] Tragedy of Storage Space Ah, city life. The extent to which I lack storage space is such that I spent yesterday disassembling an engine block. It's the orginal engine from my Triumph TR2. It's been taking up a chunk of extremely primo garage real estate for the past 20 years. Now it;s a well known fact that a. An engine takes up less space when it's together (duhhh) b. It's advantageous to store it assembled because when you do take it apart to rebuild it, everthing's there without exception. However With it apart, I can store the bits and pieces of it in some less primo locations than the floor of my garage. I wrapped the crankshaft and camshaft in plastic and duct tape, and labelled them clearly with permanent marker. With all the guts taken out of it, the block is movable and (barely) liftable. Unfortunately, I am not as strong as I was when I stored it - back then I could have put it *anywhere*. I will probably never use it - the Triumph covers less than a thousand miles a year, and I totally rebuilt the engine ten years ago. But it's a good thing I kept it anyway: British cars of that vintage were registered not under their chassis number, but rather under their engine number. So the VIN # is that of the engine, and it's existence in my garage is living proof that the car is indeed mine. - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:27:08 +0000 From: briankk-at-att.net Subject: Re: [db] Tragedy of Storage Space - -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Jerry Kaidor" > > Ah, city life. The extent to which I lack storage space is such that I > spent yesterday disassembling an engine block. It's the orginal engine > from my Triumph TR2. It's been taking up a chunk of extremely primo > garage real estate for the past 20 years. > Now it;s a well known fact that > > a. An engine takes up less space when it's together (duhhh) > b. It's advantageous to store it assembled because when you do take it > apart to rebuild it, everthing's there without exception. Oh yeah, I can't think how many times I've proved that to myself. My one-car garage just has room for my motocycle and a bunch of engines, several of which are assembled.. bk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:28:21 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Yep - finally got it to fire up, runs on 2 maybe 3 cylinders, shakes like a dog at idle, when I can make it idle. Won't go over 3500 rpm no matter what I do to the pedal. If that doesent sound like your description, I don't know what does. Fire up the grey matter and see if you can remember what it took to make it run smooth again. As it is, I can't even drive it, dies when put in gear. I let the thing run/idle for almost 1 hour, no change, loud clanks from engine, no power to speak of. Ugh, hate to have to tow it to the mechanic. Hate to have to take it all apart again to check my handiwork. Don't think I messed up anything, all parts went back in the same way they came out and in the same sequence, and the engine ran fine before. I guess there could still be some air in the steel lines, maybe now that it has been run, I can crack open the nut at the injectors and see if fuel oozes out? Any other suggestions out there? Edward john wrote: >It's been a while since I did this... did I make >any comments on my page? I vaguely remember it >running like crap initially... I also remember >getting a ticket for doing nearly 90mph in a 60 >going up the US 2 hill off of the Hewitt Avenue >trestle to SR 9 to test it afterwards for leaks... > >I've had gas powered vehicles that could barely hit >70 up that hill... the 450SEL had no problems >hitting triple digits... of course I won't use >this as a test track again... :) it's safe, >but didn't expect an authority figure to be >sitting on the other side of the road at the >on ramp... :) The gentleman understood my >explanation and logic, reduced the fine >and suggested explaining it to a judge to get >it cleared completely. I just decided >to pay the fine... no other way of testing >it, but still... shouldn't have been doing that... > >really miss the Autobahn. :) > >john > >On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > > >>-->Yep - all the high pressure parts are tight to about 18 tp 20 ft lbs. >>-->Only the lines are loose. >>--> >>-->I am charging the battery as it ran down after a few crankings, the car >>-->has been in storage for the last 4 months. The rains these past 3 days >>-->have washed most of the salt off the roads, which is when I get the >>-->diesel ready for commuting again. >>--> >>-->Will call it a day and go back in the morning to try again. Maybe with >>-->full power cranking will push fuel up the lines. >>--> >>-->Thanks for the fast reply, >>-->Edward >>--> >>-->john wrote: >>--> >>-->>I don't think you'll build pressure in the system >>-->>with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding >>-->>the air there... if you think that is an issue, >>-->> >>-->>then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... >>-->> >>-->>john >>-->> >>-->> >>-->>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->>>-->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->John & DB Gang: >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the so-so manuals on >>-->>>-->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors and the fuel >>-->>>-->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head valves, cleaned >>-->>>-->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled same back >>-->>>-->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start to finish. >>-->>>-->Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each collar nut just finger tight >>-->>>-->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and at the >>-->>>-->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with all this loose, >>-->>>-->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all the air, and >>-->>>-->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I planned to >>-->>>-->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank the engine >>-->>>-->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now horizontal, and >>-->>>-->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no diesel seems >>-->>>-->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually sure what the >>-->>>-->lever does to be honest. >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the diesel back in >>-->>>-->the lines..... HELP!!! >>-->>>--> >>-->>>-->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! >>-->>>--> >>-->>>--> >>-->>> >>-->>> >>-->> >>-->> ----- >>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >>-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>--> >> >> > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2425 **********************************