From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Mar 31 21:23:26 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, April 1 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2430 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] ml series questions Re: [db] in case you wanted to buy a new plane... Re: [db] in case you wanted to buy a new plane... Re: [db] ml series questions Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] ml series questions Greg Fiorentino wrote: > > I believe that a small percentage of diesel would raise the octane rating *** I was recently shopping for octane boosters. I had mistakenly fueled my wife's '84 XJ6 with Regular. Some of the octane boosters say "Contains Jet Fuel!", which is a fancy name for kerosene :). - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] in case you wanted to buy a new plane... john wrote: > *** Slightly above my price range. But there are some rich people out there. I read where Boeing is going to sell 787's outfitted as corporate executive jets. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] in case you wanted to buy a new plane... actually they do sell small business jets now... should I get you a brochure? ;) john On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >-->john wrote: >-->> >-->*** Slightly above my price range. But there are some rich people out there. >-->I read where Boeing is going to sell 787's outfitted as corporate executive >-->jets. >--> >--> - Jerry >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:05:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] ml series questions what is a small percentage? would veggie oil work? thinking this might work in my Grand Wagoneer or Grand Cherokee... would it behave the same with a carb? interesting... I see some potential for alternate fuel applications. if I could put a gallon of veggie oil in 20 a gallon tank and get 2 mpg on a grand wagoneer that would be nice... 12 mpg is better than 10. :) what's the downside? veggie oil would dissolve in gas and distribute evenly, right? john On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Greg Fiorentino wrote: >-->I believe that a small percentage of diesel would raise the octane rating >-->way up by raising the ignition temp of the fuel. I doubt that it would >-->have any ill effects in such small quantity. >--> >-->Greg Fiorentino >-->Vancouver USA >-->'85 300SD Turbo >-->'80 240D 4-speed >-->'79 300TD >-->'97 7.3L F250 HD 4WD Crew Cab >--> >-->Michael Frank wrote: >--> >--> I have an E320 4matic station wagon, which is essentially the same >--> platform as the ML. If you use regular, the ECU automatically detects >--> knock and compensates. You end up losing about 2 mpg, and lots of >--> power. Interestingly, I once tried mixing a gallon of Diesel with a >--> full tank (this was an accident). Fuel economy soared, and power was >--> 'way up. I have no idea what this would do over the long run, but it >--> was an interesting result. >--> >--> Mike Frank >--> >--> At 09:51 AM 3/30/2007, you wrote: >--> >--> chuck goolsbee wrote: >--> >--> another question, the ML320 requires premium for the 3.2L >--> V6, >--> what happens if you run the regular 89 octane instead of >--> the 92 octane? >-->No virus found in this outgoing message. >-->Checked by AVG Free Edition. >-->Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.23/740 - Release Date: 3/30/2007 >-->1:15 PM >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:35:14 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel John & group: Took apart the lines on the Benz again. #4 counted back from front of injection pump (front of car) was bone dry. I dis-asembled the valve on the pump, can;t see anything wrong with it other than it was dry. As I have no idea on what is inside the injection pump itself and how MB generates the oil pressure, my question is, if it was dry when I assembled it, could the dry parts have essentially plugged themselves by not moving? Going on this assumption, I have soaked verything in diesel after cleaning again, then re assembled. Have not yet tried to fire up the engine, praying a bit in advance of that. Anyone have info on how the system works internally? Edward john wrote: >any air should have escaped... are you sure >you put all the pieces back in properly? > >you're a brave soul running it that long... if there >is something messed up it could make it worse... > >john > >On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > > >>-->Yep - finally got it to fire up, runs on 2 maybe 3 cylinders, shakes like a >>-->dog at idle, when I can make it idle. Won't go over 3500 rpm no matter what >>-->I do to the pedal. If that doesent sound like your description, I don't >>-->know what does. >>--> >>-->Fire up the grey matter and see if you can remember what it took to make it >>-->run smooth again. As it is, I can't even drive it, dies when put in gear. I >>-->let the thing run/idle for almost 1 hour, no change, loud clanks from >>-->engine, no power to speak of. Ugh, hate to have to tow it to the mechanic. >>-->Hate to have to take it all apart again to check my handiwork. Don't think I >>-->messed up anything, all parts went back in the same way they came out and in >>-->the same sequence, and the engine ran fine before. I guess there could still >>-->be some air in the steel lines, maybe now that it has been run, I can crack >>-->open the nut at the injectors and see if fuel oozes out? Any other >>-->suggestions out there? >>--> >>-->Edward >>--> >>--> >>--> >>-->john wrote: >>--> >>-->>It's been a while since I did this... did I make >>-->>any comments on my page? I vaguely remember it >>-->>running like crap initially... I also remember >>-->>getting a ticket for doing nearly 90mph in a 60 >>-->>going up the US 2 hill off of the Hewitt Avenue trestle to SR 9 to test it >>-->>afterwards for leaks... >>-->>I've had gas powered vehicles that could barely hit >>-->>70 up that hill... the 450SEL had no problems >>-->>hitting triple digits... of course I won't use >>-->>this as a test track again... :) it's safe, >>-->>but didn't expect an authority figure to be >>-->>sitting on the other side of the road at the >>-->>on ramp... :) The gentleman understood my >>-->>explanation and logic, reduced the fine >>-->>and suggested explaining it to a judge to get >>-->>it cleared completely. I just decided >>-->>to pay the fine... no other way of testing >>-->>it, but still... shouldn't have been doing that... >>-->> >>-->>really miss the Autobahn. :) >>-->> >>-->>john >>-->> >>-->>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> > -->Yep - all the high pressure parts are tight to about 18 tp 20 ft lbs. >>-->> > -->Only the lines are loose. >>-->> > -->I am charging the battery as it ran down after a few crankings, the >>-->> > -->car has been in storage for the last 4 months. The rains these past 3 >>-->> > -->days have washed most of the salt off the roads, which is when I get >>-->> > -->the diesel ready for commuting again. >>-->> > --> >>-->> > -->Will call it a day and go back in the morning to try again. Maybe >>-->> > -->with full power cranking will push fuel up the lines. >>-->> > --> >>-->> > -->Thanks for the fast reply, >>-->> > -->Edward >>-->> > --> >>-->> > -->john wrote: >>-->> > --> >>-->> > --> >I don't think you'll build pressure in the system >>-->> > --> >with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding >>-->> > --> >the air there... if you think that is an issue, >>-->> > --> >then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> >john >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> >On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> > > -->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->John & DB Gang: >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the >>-->> > --> > > -->so-so manuals on >>-->> > --> > > -->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors >>-->> > --> > > -->and the fuel >>-->> > --> > > -->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head >>-->> > --> > > -->valves, cleaned >>-->> > --> > > -->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled >>-->> > --> > > -->same back >>-->> > --> > > -->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start >>-->> > --> > > -->to finish. Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each >>-->> > --> > > -->collar nut just finger tight >>-->> > --> > > -->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and >>-->> > --> > > -->at the >>-->> > --> > > -->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with >>-->> > --> > > -->all this loose, >>-->> > --> > > -->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all >>-->> > --> > > -->the air, and >>-->> > --> > > -->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I >>-->> > --> > > -->planned to >>-->> > --> > > -->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank >>-->> > --> > > -->the engine >>-->> > --> > > -->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now >>-->> > --> > > -->horizontal, and >>-->> > --> > > -->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no >>-->> > --> > > -->diesel seems >>-->> > --> > > -->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually >>-->> > --> > > -->sure what the >>-->> > --> > > -->lever does to be honest. >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the >>-->> > --> > > -->diesel back in >>-->> > --> > > -->the lines..... HELP!!! >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > -->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > --> >>-->> > --> > > >>-->> > --> > > >>-->> > --> > >>-->> > --> > ----- >>-->> > --> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> > --> > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >>-->> > --> > mold >>-->> > --> > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >>-->> > --> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> > --> >>-->> > >>-->> > >>-->> >>-->> ----- >>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >>-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>-->> >>--> >> >> > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:22:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Leak cured maybe but no fuel did anything fall down inside? the pump works with a cam action... fuel is in the pump housing and pressured by a cam that "squirts" it out those orifices into the lines... I'd have to look at a diagram to understand exactly how that all works... john On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->John & group: >--> >-->Took apart the lines on the Benz again. #4 counted back from front of >-->injection pump (front of car) was bone dry. I dis-asembled the valve on >-->the pump, can;t see anything wrong with it other than it was dry. >--> >-->As I have no idea on what is inside the injection pump itself and how MB >-->generates the oil pressure, my question is, if it was dry when I >-->assembled it, could the dry parts have essentially plugged themselves by >-->not moving? >--> >-->Going on this assumption, I have soaked verything in diesel after >-->cleaning again, then re assembled. Have not yet tried to fire up the >-->engine, praying a bit in advance of that. >--> >-->Anyone have info on how the system works internally? >--> >-->Edward >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>any air should have escaped... are you sure >-->>you put all the pieces back in properly? >-->> >-->>you're a brave soul running it that long... if there >-->>is something messed up it could make it worse... >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->>On Sun, 25 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->Yep - finally got it to fire up, runs on 2 maybe 3 cylinders, shakes like a >-->>>-->dog at idle, when I can make it idle. Won't go over 3500 rpm no matter what >-->>>-->I do to the pedal. If that doesent sound like your description, I don't >-->>>-->know what does. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Fire up the grey matter and see if you can remember what it took to make it >-->>>-->run smooth again. As it is, I can't even drive it, dies when put in gear. I >-->>>-->let the thing run/idle for almost 1 hour, no change, loud clanks from >-->>>-->engine, no power to speak of. Ugh, hate to have to tow it to the mechanic. >-->>>-->Hate to have to take it all apart again to check my handiwork. Don't think I >-->>>-->messed up anything, all parts went back in the same way they came out and in >-->>>-->the same sequence, and the engine ran fine before. I guess there could still >-->>>-->be some air in the steel lines, maybe now that it has been run, I can crack >-->>>-->open the nut at the injectors and see if fuel oozes out? Any other >-->>>-->suggestions out there? >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Edward >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>>-->john wrote: >-->>>--> >-->>>-->>It's been a while since I did this... did I make >-->>>-->>any comments on my page? I vaguely remember it >-->>>-->>running like crap initially... I also remember >-->>>-->>getting a ticket for doing nearly 90mph in a 60 >-->>>-->>going up the US 2 hill off of the Hewitt Avenue trestle to SR 9 to test it >-->>>-->>afterwards for leaks... >-->>>-->>I've had gas powered vehicles that could barely hit >-->>>-->>70 up that hill... the 450SEL had no problems >-->>>-->>hitting triple digits... of course I won't use >-->>>-->>this as a test track again... :) it's safe, >-->>>-->>but didn't expect an authority figure to be >-->>>-->>sitting on the other side of the road at the >-->>>-->>on ramp... :) The gentleman understood my >-->>>-->>explanation and logic, reduced the fine >-->>>-->>and suggested explaining it to a judge to get >-->>>-->>it cleared completely. I just decided >-->>>-->>to pay the fine... no other way of testing >-->>>-->>it, but still... shouldn't have been doing that... >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>really miss the Autobahn. :) >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>john >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> > -->Yep - all the high pressure parts are tight to about 18 tp 20 ft lbs. >-->>>-->> > -->Only the lines are loose. >-->>>-->> > -->I am charging the battery as it ran down after a few crankings, the >-->>>-->> > -->car has been in storage for the last 4 months. The rains these past 3 >-->>>-->> > -->days have washed most of the salt off the roads, which is when I get >-->>>-->> > -->the diesel ready for commuting again. >-->>>-->> > --> >-->>>-->> > -->Will call it a day and go back in the morning to try again. Maybe >-->>>-->> > -->with full power cranking will push fuel up the lines. >-->>>-->> > --> >-->>>-->> > -->Thanks for the fast reply, >-->>>-->> > -->Edward >-->>>-->> > --> >-->>>-->> > -->john wrote: >-->>>-->> > --> >-->>>-->> > --> >I don't think you'll build pressure in the system >-->>>-->> > --> >with those loose... I wouldn't worry about bleeding >-->>>-->> > --> >the air there... if you think that is an issue, >-->>>-->> > --> >then ONLY loosen the lines NOT the high pressure parts... >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> >john >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> >On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->93 Turbo 300D with 2.5 , 5 cyl engine. >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->John & DB Gang: >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->Following the excellent pictures provided by John, and the >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->so-so manuals on >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->hand, I disconnected all the plumbing between the injectors >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->and the fuel >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->injection pump, then one by one, removed the pump head >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->valves, cleaned >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->them, put in new copper washers and o rings, then assembled >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->same back >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->together. Managed the whole lt in about 3 hours from start >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->to finish. Then, and this is the big THEN... I left each >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->collar nut just finger tight >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->on the pipe unions both above and below (at the injectors and >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->at the >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->delivery valves) thinking that by cranking the engine with >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->all this loose, >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->diesel should force it's way up the tubes, pushing out all >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->the air, and >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->when diesel was to be oozing/squirting out of all jounts, I >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->planned to >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->tighten them up (I did cover all the area with rags). >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->Of course, this is not what happens. Essentially I can crank >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->the engine >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->and no diesel seems to ooze out of anywhere. >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->The pump lever which heretofore was kind of upright is now >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->horizontal, and >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->if I lever it up and down, I can feel some resistance, but no >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->diesel seems >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->to be feeding anwhere that I can tell.. I am not actually >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->sure what the >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->lever does to be honest. >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->The manuals I have make no mention of a procedure to get the >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->diesel back in >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->the lines..... HELP!!! >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > -->Edward in MI - on our first over 70 day for 2007 !!! >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > --> >-->>>-->> > --> > > >-->>>-->> > --> > > >-->>>-->> > --> > >-->>>-->> > --> > ----- >-->>>-->> > --> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> > --> > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->>>-->> > --> > mold >-->>>-->> > --> > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>>-->> > --> >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> > --> >-->>>-->> > >-->>>-->> > >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> ----- >-->>>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->>>-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>>-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>-->> >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ----- >-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2430 **********************************