From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 27 15:08:26 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, April 27 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2446 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] taxes and cars [db] Dutch Consider Tough Biofuels Criteria (fwd) Re: [db] taxes and cars Re: [db] fuel costs and cars [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:54:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] taxes and cars Washington state has a wide variety of unusual taxes, which makes sense since it's leadership is heavily composed of liberal democrats from seattle and king county... these taxes add a lot of extra costs to things... especially fuel... our fuel prices are all over $3/gal... Diesel $3.09, unleaded $3.31 and premium something like $3.61 or more... rest of the country is around $2.80. That noted, ran across this news article about a car dealership that added the "B&O" tax to the sale of a used car... the guy evidently sued for the $79.20. B&O is a Business and Occupation tax... I'm surprised that they didn't charge the guy for the other 30 or 40 taxes imposed on businesses as well. :) The washington state tax book is thicker than the federal tax book... thankfully we don't have a state income tax... yet. Note the dissent statement... says a lot... :) I find it interesting to hear how other parts of the country tax things... our best way of reducing our tax burdens is to identify them and try to get our elected leaders to spend responsibly. despite seemingly poor roads in some areas, we do enjoy a pretty decent infrastructure, excellent emergency services and so on... but still... there is a limit to what we can all afford... here's the article: http://www.komoradio.com/news/local/7207976.html By Associated Press OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - Car dealers and other businesses can't pass along their state taxes by tacking overhead charges onto a negotiated purchase price, the state Supreme Court ruled Thursday. In a 6-3 decision, justices held that Appleway Volkswagen in Spokane improperly added $79.23 to the price of Herbert Nelson's used Cabriolet. The Volkswagen dealer, which is part of the Appleway Chevrolet Inc. group, argued it was merely itemizing an overhead expense when it added the state business and occupation tax to the agreed price of $16,822. Nelson, however, said Appleway should not be allowed to inflate the negotiated price by passing its business tax to the consumer, who also pays higher sales taxes because of the price bump. The Supreme Court agreed, saying that state law explicitly forbids Appleway's practice of tacking on the state business and occupation tax, also called the B&O tax. "Appleway treated the B&O tax as a tax on customers," when state statute clearly says the tax shouldn't be construed as a charge on consumer purchases, Justice Richard Sanders wrote. The court said Appleway could still recoup its B&O taxes from customers if the charge is made part of the initial purchase price, which is ultimately set by the market. "The $16,822 negotiated between Appleway and Nelson is presumably that market price; Appleway cannot then add its B&O tax liability on top of this final price," Sanders wrote. The ruling upholds lower court decisions that certified a class action in the case and ordered Appleway to stop charging customers its business tax. In a sharply worded dissent, Justice Barbara Madsen said the majority's ruling was illogical and allowed Nelson to improperly enforce the state law with a private legal claim. It doesn't make sense to rule that the B&O tax may be included in the purchase price, but not added after the fact, the dissent said. In any case, customers can always walk away from a deal if they feel they are being overcharged, Madsen wrote. Nelson's claim also shouldn't stand because private parties aren't allowed to enforce the state statute, Madsen said. She was accompanied by Justices Charles Johnson and Jim Johnson. "The majority has turned a fairly simple statute into a complex and ultimately unworkable ban barring sellers from passing on overhead costs to their customers unless they expressly negotiate this particular part of overhead as part of the price," the dissent said. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:44:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Dutch Consider Tough Biofuels Criteria (fwd) fyi... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sent from Express News AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - It's the new climate change dilemma: finding alternatives for oil and gas without doing more harm than good. In the rush to develop biofuels, forests are burned in Asia to clear land for palm oil, and swaths of the Amazon are stripped of diverse vegetation for soya and sugar plantations for ethanol. On Friday, a Dutch committee will unveil stringent criteria for growing biofuels in ways that don't damage the environment or release more greenhouse gases than they save. Other European countries are working along similar lines and closely watching the Dutch initiative - the first to reach the level of government consideration. More than a year in the making, the report reflects a heightened awareness of the risks and complexity in efforts to reduce emissions of the gases blamed for global warming. Among the criteria in a draft obtained by The Associated Press: Production of biomass cannot contribute to deforestation, deplete reservoirs of carbon captured in the earth, compete with food crops, degrade soil or water supplies, upset biodiversity, or displace local populations, The report is by the Cramer Commission, named for its former chairwoman, Jacqueline Cramer, who in February became environment minister. Without going into specifics, it suggests developing a track-and-trace system to follow a product from plantation to power plant, like an express delivery package. "It should be implemented on a European scale because it will be difficult for Holland to do it on its own," said Kees Koede, of the Dutch branch of Friends of the Earth, an environmental group. "Everyone is aware that it's crazy to pour money into a system that is not sustainable," he said. But the European Commission, executive arm of the 27-nation European Union, is only beginning to look at the problem. "We are working on a system of green certificates to make sure no unsustainable biofuel makes its way into the European market. But this is very embryonic at the moment," said Ferran Tarradellas Espuny, an EU energy official. An organization of palm oil planters, processors, financiers and environmentalists in Malaysia and Indonesia has been working for more than two years to devise criteria and verification schemes. The campaign is driven by evidence that developers in the two Asian countries have burned vast tracks of rain forest to grow palm oil. The fires unleash millions of tons of carbon dioxide and smoke that shroud entire areas of Southeast Asia in eye-watering smog for weeks at a time. The Netherlands is Europe's biggest importer of palm oil, used in a wide range of supermarket products as well as a fuel oil supplement. One Dutch company has plans to build three 50 megawatt power stations exclusively running on palm oil. The Cramer Commission envisions imported biomass from sustainable sources by 2020, but calls for a transition period. "Sustainability in the long term can only be achieved if a start is made with it now," the draft says. It calls for greenhouse gas emissions to be cut by 70 percent for generating electricity, and 30 percent for transportation fuels. The draft criteria say new plantations must not be built in protected areas, plantations should leave 10 percent of their area in "its original state" to preserve diversity, and soil and water quality of the soil and water should be improved. The Europeans have set high targets for cutting carbon emissions. In February, EU leaders approved a plan to trim them by at least 20 percent from 1990 levels by 2020. At least 10 percent of transport fuels will come from biomass, they decided. With that goal in mind, a huge emphasis will shift toward biofuel production, risking even greater environmental damage. "You need to be very quick with implementing criteria," said Sander van Bennekom of the Oxfam charity, one of the report's 14 contributors, in an interview. "Maybe we are already too late." By ARTHUR MAX Associated Press Writer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:34:05 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] taxes and cars >our fuel >prices are all over $3/gal... Diesel $3.09, unleaded $3.31 and >premium something like $3.61 or more... rest of the country is >around $2.80. $2.86 up here in Arlington. Has been stable at that price for 3 weeks. My tank before that was at $2.73. Gasoline here is all over $3 though... not that I ever notice that though! ;) - -- - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:39:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] fuel costs and cars On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->>our fuel > -->>prices are all over $3/gal... Diesel $3.09, unleaded $3.31 and > -->>premium something like $3.61 or more... rest of the country is > -->>around $2.80. > --> > -->$2.86 up here in Arlington. Has been stable at that price for 3 weeks. My > -->tank before that was at $2.73. it's like you're in a little time warp up there... off the freeway... out of sight... kind of like a bad sci-fi novel... :) > -->Gasoline here is all over $3 though... not that I ever notice that though! > -->;) what's tragic is I test drove Bruce's ML320... decided to put the Diesel in my '91 Grand Wagoneer and neglected to top off the tank BEFORE leaving for SouthDakota... yikes, that was an expensive oversight... thought about bringing the ML into town today to top it off... dang thing requires the "good" stuff too... :) my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due to parts being backordered. > --> > -->-- > -->--chuck goolsbee > -->02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD > -->arlington, wa, usa > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:54:25 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty On 4/27/07, john wrote: > > my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due to parts > being backordered. > Just so you know, according to the New York Auto Show, Jeep is taking the Dr. Suess look out of the Liberty http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=120162 and will offer a CRD in the Grand Wagoneer. No specific mention of the diesel in the Liberty, but the current version sold beyond their expectations, so their bound to repeat that mix. Either of those options still probably requires selling everything you've got, but maybe they'll make good used factory diesel Jeeps in a few years. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:11:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty no mention of a GW in that article... did I miss something? besides the looks on the KJ they also screwed up the SEATS and the AXLES... is it really unibody or uniframe? ignorant writers... ;) john On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > -->On 4/27/07, john wrote: > -->> > -->> my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due to > -->> parts > -->> being backordered. > -->> > --> > -->Just so you know, according to the New York Auto Show, Jeep is taking > -->the Dr. Suess look out of the Liberty > -->http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=120162 > -->and will offer a CRD in the Grand Wagoneer. > --> > -->No specific mention of the diesel in the Liberty, but the current > -->version sold beyond their expectations, so their bound to repeat that > -->mix. > --> > -->Either of those options still probably requires selling everything > -->you've got, but maybe they'll make good used factory diesel Jeeps in a > -->few years. > --> > -->Alec > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:22:40 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Wasn't the original Cherokee (well maybe not an ORIGINAL one, but the first small one) a unibody? Don't know if they'll change the seats to something you'll like. The GW CRD wasn't in that article, but was mentioned on MotorWeek. Alec On 4/27/07, john wrote: > > no mention of a GW in that article... did I miss something? > > besides the looks on the KJ they also screwed up the SEATS and the AXLES... > is it really unibody or uniframe? ignorant writers... ;) > > john > > > On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > > > -->On 4/27/07, john wrote: > > -->> > > -->> my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due to > > -->> parts > > -->> being backordered. > > -->> > > --> > > -->Just so you know, according to the New York Auto Show, Jeep is taking > > -->the Dr. Suess look out of the Liberty > > -->http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=120162 > > -->and will offer a CRD in the Grand Wagoneer. > > --> > > -->No specific mention of the diesel in the Liberty, but the current > > -->version sold beyond their expectations, so their bound to repeat that > > -->mix. > > --> > > -->Either of those options still probably requires selling everything > > -->you've got, but maybe they'll make good used factory diesel Jeeps in a > > -->few years. > > --> > > -->Alec > > --> > > --> > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:50:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > -->Wasn't the original Cherokee (well maybe not an ORIGINAL one, but the > -->first small one) a unibody? Don't know if they'll change the seats to > -->something you'll like. the "original" cherokee came out in 1974, full body on frame... basically a stripped down version of the Wagoneer... in 2 doors... they had 2dr Wagoneers in the '60s so this was an easy change... intended to compete with the "new" blazers and other late comers to the market. ;) the original XJ cherokee was a UNI-FRAME... full frame with the body directly attached... WJ has the same config, there are frame rails... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/04-April-18-trip-Mitchell-RapidCity-SD/WJ-RC-Auto-tech/P1080304.jpg > -->The GW CRD wasn't in that article, but was mentioned on MotorWeek. got link? john > --> > -->Alec > --> > -->On 4/27/07, john wrote: > -->> > -->> no mention of a GW in that article... did I miss something? > -->> > -->> besides the looks on the KJ they also screwed up the SEATS and the > -->> AXLES... > -->> is it really unibody or uniframe? ignorant writers... ;) > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> > -->> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Alec Cordova wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->On 4/27/07, john wrote: > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due > -->> > --> > to > -->> > --> > parts > -->> > --> > being backordered. > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Just so you know, according to the New York Auto Show, Jeep is taking > -->> > -->the Dr. Suess look out of the Liberty > -->> > -->http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=120162 > -->> > -->and will offer a CRD in the Grand Wagoneer. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->No specific mention of the diesel in the Liberty, but the current > -->> > -->version sold beyond their expectations, so their bound to repeat that > -->> > -->mix. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Either of those options still probably requires selling everything > -->> > -->you've got, but maybe they'll make good used factory diesel Jeeps in > -->> > -->a > -->> > -->few years. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Alec > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ----- > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:54:41 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] New GW Diesel and Liberty Gahh! They did away with the Dr. Seuss and made it look like the Scion box - yuck twice over. Edward Alec Cordova wrote: > On 4/27/07, john wrote: > >> >> my FSJ Diesel is scheduled for delivery May 14, one week slide due to >> parts >> being backordered. >> > > Just so you know, according to the New York Auto Show, Jeep is taking > the Dr. Suess look out of the Liberty > http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=120162 > and will offer a CRD in the Grand Wagoneer. > > No specific mention of the diesel in the Liberty, but the current > version sold beyond their expectations, so their bound to repeat that > mix. > > Either of those options still probably requires selling everything > you've got, but maybe they'll make good used factory diesel Jeeps in a > few years. > > Alec ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2446 **********************************