From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 12 02:39:32 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, June 12 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2471 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee (now Eire) Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee done: http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Ireland-XJ-Diesel/ALL.html need those engine shots now... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # heheh cheers John # # re the URL ... *cough* ... ummm... you do know I'm in Ireland yeah? ;-) # Steve # # On 6/11/07, john wrote: # > what in the world is on the back of that poor thing?? ;) # > # > it still is a bit weird to see that steering wheel there... # > same thing when I see pix from "down under". # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/UK-jeep/ALL.html # > no pictures under the "bonnet"? :) # > # > I'm envious that we don't have XJs or WJs in the states with # > Diesels... I tried to get into a WK on Friday, whacked my head... # > they lowered the roof line the morons... they screwed up the # > Grand Cherokee on several items... visibility is worse, roof line # > is too low, the seats are as bad as the liberty and they have # > independent front suspension... the ONLY redeeming value is # > the Diesel engine... but that comes at a very stiff price. :( # > # > Even the stinking, butt ugly KJs, aka Liberties, has a mid-20K US # > dollar price tag used... same year gas model is barely getting # > 10K or less... # > # > still waiting for my '91 Grand Wagoneer to get it's 6.2L going... # > novak-adapters is still trying to get it all sorted out... sheesh... # > maybe we should have used advanced adapters... ;) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > # > # Hey John, # > # # > # Test drove a '96 2.5L Jeep Cherokee Sport yesterday... highly # > # impressed with it I have to say... all the controls just fell to hand, # > # even with the odd shaped gear lever every gear was where I expected it # > # to be (not sure why some people reckon its a 2sec change..), v.nice # > # bit of power, absolutely no rust (except some minor stuff on the rear # > # springs), no rattles, all electrics work, brakes fine, new tyres, # > # new-ish exhaust, body needs a little tidying (does the front lip of # > # the bonnet come off easily, the bit with the Jeep badge? It'll need a # > # respray due to stone chips), grey cloth interior (which is fine), # > # towbar pack and wheels need a respray... only fault I could find was a # > # bit of a drip from the engine bay which I was told is due to a recent # > # fuel filter change .. it did look like diesel alright... # > # Hmmm.... time to advertise the 190D I guess.. altho I'll be v.sad to # > # see it go, fantastic car.. # > # # > # Some pics attached. # > # # > # Steve # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee in the states fuel is the biggest expense on a cherokee... ;) the '96 has no issues that I can think of... the 4.0L engine was superb this year, but you have the Diesel, an unknown to us here... don't know about that trans... the seat bases will break... dismantle, reweld... no electrical issues, other than switch contacts, clean and use often... the fiberglass tailgate was reinforced in the late '80s, no problem. the track bar setup issues were resolved in the late '80s, no problem. nothing I can think of on the XJ otherwise... they are sturdy, reliable and functional. nice rigs... if my 6.2L Diesel project doesn't work out in my Grand Wagoneer I will be looking for another XJ... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # aha... makes sense ... altho it sometimes looks saggy but other times not.. # Thing is.. with the Jeep.. its an unknown.. granted, within a few # weeks I'll be "up to speed" (ha ha ... cue tumbleweed) with the ins # and outs of it. Heres a Q, out of all the most common issues with a # Cherokee, what is the most expensive problem it could have (am adding # up the parts + time for the Merc VS what-may-need-to-be-done on the # Jeep) ;-) # # Cheers # Steve # # On 6/11/07, Kevin wrote: # > That's what ultimately solved the problem, though if you carry a lot of # > weight in the trunk (dead bodies, jeep parts, whatever) you might consider # > putting larger shims (spring spacers) in. # > # > On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 04:40:03PM -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: # > > Wouldn't that be worn rear suspension or subframe mount bushings? # > > # > > Alec # > > # > > On 6/11/07, Kevin wrote: # > > >For what it's worth, the sagging rear is unlikely the shocks. Depending # > > >on # > > >mileage (kilometrage?), the springs could possibly be worn. I redid the # > > >links, swapped the springs, and just about everything else to get the # > > >rear # > > >end to not sag. # > > > # > > >This isn't convincing, is it? # > > > # > > >On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:30:45PM +0100, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > > > > ARrgh... just been out in our '88 W201 190D 2lt (which the Jeep would # > > > > replace) towing a VW Golf with a dead fuel pump. Am torn... I really # > > > > like this car.. not sure I want to sell it to get the Jeep... # > > > > The 190 will need the following over the next 18 months : # > > > > 4 x tyres (good thread on current ones but they are dire in the wet) # > > > > exhaust # > > > > clutch (getting a bit loose) # > > > > shocks all round (rear is starting to sag a little) # > > > > vaccum pump (again) # > > > > and the biggest thing (in my mind) .. the heater core is leaking # > > > > somewhere which I hear will take 12 hours to replace (dash out). # > > > > # > > > > But.. still love it.. # > > > > # > > > > Steve (who needs convincing) # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee to clarify... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html I've had 12 XJs, lifted two of them, never used a come-a-long, just a long pry bar... :) never broke an axle either... not that I haven't tried: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/john1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/ the clutch and manual setup is as bad as Kevin suggests... the AW4 Automatic is probably the best AT I've ever had... you won't have an exhaust manifold problem with the Diesel. ;) ABS was an issue on some years... no vacuum disconnect after about 88. why can't you keep both? ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Kevin wrote: # Under the guise of telling you to keep the 190D, you do not want to # have to do front suspension work on an XJ - lots of links, and a comealong # is required if you have to replace one of the front ones. A 190D is a bit # easier to work on than an XJ. If it has a dana 35 in the back, you could # have problems with it down the road as they're a bit weak. The front axle # is even weaker. Vacuum disconnect (if you have it) can be a problem, as # can the axle u-joints if you don't have ABS (the ABS trucks had bigger # joints for some reason). Almost all of them develop leaky rear main seals over # time if the engine is original, and if the jeep is a clutch, the leaky rear # main will take out the clutch. If it's before 93 or so, the slave cylinder is # internal to the transmission. The AX-15 doesn't have a chamfered input shaft, # so it's a stone cold b**** to get the trans lined back up. The exhaust manifold # is just about guaranteed to crack unless you have an aftermarket header, so # if this bothers you or if your emissions laws require you do something # about it, plan on probably having to pull the intake to get to it - the AMC # gassers weren't cross flow head designs. # # Then again, you're probably getting the diesel since you're overseas, and I # have no idea what those had. Hopefully it's not the renault engine that # couldn't tow its shadow across the street :) # # FWIW, I love my two XJs and haven't found anything that size that can replace # them. # # On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:55:23PM +0100, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > aha... makes sense ... altho it sometimes looks saggy but other times not.. # > Thing is.. with the Jeep.. its an unknown.. granted, within a few # > weeks I'll be "up to speed" (ha ha ... cue tumbleweed) with the ins # > and outs of it. Heres a Q, out of all the most common issues with a # > Cherokee, what is the most expensive problem it could have (am adding # > up the parts + time for the Merc VS what-may-need-to-be-done on the # > Jeep) ;-) # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:41:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee I would love to have that Diesel XJ here in the states... understand you dilema... for me, if I had the Jeep Diesel option, there would be no dilema... I'd leave Rube and his systems in a heartbeat... unless of course fuel costs were as high as yours... the 201 is probably the most economical benz made, except for the Diesel smart cars. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # ARrgh... just been out in our '88 W201 190D 2lt (which the Jeep would # replace) towing a VW Golf with a dead fuel pump. Am torn... I really # like this car.. not sure I want to sell it to get the Jeep... # The 190 will need the following over the next 18 months : # 4 x tyres (good thread on current ones but they are dire in the wet) # exhaust # clutch (getting a bit loose) # shocks all round (rear is starting to sag a little) # vaccum pump (again) # and the biggest thing (in my mind) .. the heater core is leaking # somewhere which I hear will take 12 hours to replace (dash out). # # But.. still love it.. # # Steve (who needs convincing) # # On 6/11/07, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > heheh cheers John # > # > re the URL ... *cough* ... ummm... you do know I'm in Ireland yeah? ;-) # > Steve # > # > On 6/11/07, john wrote: # > > what in the world is on the back of that poor thing?? ;) # > > # > > it still is a bit weird to see that steering wheel there... # > > same thing when I see pix from "down under". # > > # > > # > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/UK-jeep/ALL.html # > > no pictures under the "bonnet"? :) # > > # > > I'm envious that we don't have XJs or WJs in the states with # > > Diesels... I tried to get into a WK on Friday, whacked my head... # > > they lowered the roof line the morons... they screwed up the # > > Grand Cherokee on several items... visibility is worse, roof line # > > is too low, the seats are as bad as the liberty and they have # > > independent front suspension... the ONLY redeeming value is # > > the Diesel engine... but that comes at a very stiff price. :( # > > # > > Even the stinking, butt ugly KJs, aka Liberties, has a mid-20K US # > > dollar price tag used... same year gas model is barely getting # > > 10K or less... # > > # > > still waiting for my '91 Grand Wagoneer to get it's 6.2L going... # > > novak-adapters is still trying to get it all sorted out... sheesh... # > > maybe we should have used advanced adapters... ;) # > > # > > john # > > # > > ----- # > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > > # > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > > # > > # Hey John, # > > # # > > # Test drove a '96 2.5L Jeep Cherokee Sport yesterday... highly # > > # impressed with it I have to say... all the controls just fell to hand, # > > # even with the odd shaped gear lever every gear was where I expected it # > > # to be (not sure why some people reckon its a 2sec change..), v.nice # > > # bit of power, absolutely no rust (except some minor stuff on the rear # > > # springs), no rattles, all electrics work, brakes fine, new tyres, # > > # new-ish exhaust, body needs a little tidying (does the front lip of # > > # the bonnet come off easily, the bit with the Jeep badge? It'll need a # > > # respray due to stone chips), grey cloth interior (which is fine), # > > # towbar pack and wheels need a respray... only fault I could find was a # > > # bit of a drip from the engine bay which I was told is due to a recent # > > # fuel filter change .. it did look like diesel alright... # > > # Hmmm.... time to advertise the 190D I guess.. altho I'll be v.sad to # > > # see it go, fantastic car.. # > > # # > > # Some pics attached. # > > # # > > # Steve # > > # # > > # # > > # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:07:19 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: [db] Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee (now Eire) Oh ho ho, ah John for such a well travelled guy... ;-) heheh Northern Ireland is part of the UK, but the South (The Republic of Ireland/Iire) is very much its own country (very! ;-) ) and covers the remaining 83% of the Island ;-) Have a quick read of this, I think you'll find it... interesting.. (put on the popcorn). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_ireland Steve On 6/11/07, john wrote: > isn't Ireland part of the UK, or has my public school education > let me down? > > Was talking to a guy in the UK a bit ago about buying my '48 CJ-2A, he > needs it shipped to South Hampton or London... > > so, the path changes to: http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/Ireland-XJ-Diesel > > > > john > > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > # heheh cheers John > # > # re the URL ... *cough* ... ummm... you do know I'm in Ireland yeah? ;-) > # Steve > # > # On 6/11/07, john wrote: > # > what in the world is on the back of that poor thing?? ;) > # > > # > it still is a bit weird to see that steering wheel there... > # > same thing when I see pix from "down under". > # > > # > > # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/UK-jeep/ALL.html > # > no pictures under the "bonnet"? :) > # > > # > I'm envious that we don't have XJs or WJs in the states with > # > Diesels... I tried to get into a WK on Friday, whacked my head... > # > they lowered the roof line the morons... they screwed up the > # > Grand Cherokee on several items... visibility is worse, roof line > # > is too low, the seats are as bad as the liberty and they have > # > independent front suspension... the ONLY redeeming value is > # > the Diesel engine... but that comes at a very stiff price. :( > # > > # > Even the stinking, butt ugly KJs, aka Liberties, has a mid-20K US > # > dollar price tag used... same year gas model is barely getting > # > 10K or less... > # > > # > still waiting for my '91 Grand Wagoneer to get it's 6.2L going... > # > novak-adapters is still trying to get it all sorted out... sheesh... > # > maybe we should have used advanced adapters... ;) > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > # > > # > # Hey John, > # > # > # > # Test drove a '96 2.5L Jeep Cherokee Sport yesterday... highly > # > # impressed with it I have to say... all the controls just fell to hand, > # > # even with the odd shaped gear lever every gear was where I expected it > # > # to be (not sure why some people reckon its a 2sec change..), v.nice > # > # bit of power, absolutely no rust (except some minor stuff on the rear > # > # springs), no rattles, all electrics work, brakes fine, new tyres, > # > # new-ish exhaust, body needs a little tidying (does the front lip of > # > # the bonnet come off easily, the bit with the Jeep badge? It'll need a > # > # respray due to stone chips), grey cloth interior (which is fine), > # > # towbar pack and wheels need a respray... only fault I could find was a > # > # bit of a drip from the engine bay which I was told is due to a recent > # > # fuel filter change .. it did look like diesel alright... > # > # Hmmm.... time to advertise the 190D I guess.. altho I'll be v.sad to > # > # see it go, fantastic car.. > # > # > # > # Some pics attached. > # > # > # > # Steve > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:23:25 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: Test drove a '96 Jeep Cherokee "why can't you keep both? ;)" oh believe me.. I would if I could... my driveway can hold 4 cars.. at the moment I have a Eunos Roadster Turbo(Miata), W123 Coupe, W123 Estate, Nissan Micra (don't ask) and the W201 ... 5 into 4 doesn't go unfortunately ;-) I also have a '92 W201 1.8 petrol waiting in the wings for restoration (next up after that is a '91 Ford Thunderbird Coupe.. which is unusual here, it was imported by a buddy's mother about 10 years ago). Too many cars, too little space ;-) Thanks for the comments from all! Steve On 6/11/07, john wrote: > to clarify... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > > I've had 12 XJs, lifted two of them, never used a come-a-long, just > a long pry bar... :) > > never broke an axle either... not that I haven't tried: > > http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/john1.jpg > http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/ > > the clutch and manual setup is as bad as Kevin suggests... the > AW4 Automatic is probably the best AT I've ever had... > > you won't have an exhaust manifold problem with the Diesel. ;) > > ABS was an issue on some years... > > no vacuum disconnect after about 88. > > why can't you keep both? ;) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Kevin wrote: > > # Under the guise of telling you to keep the 190D, you do not want to > # have to do front suspension work on an XJ - lots of links, and a comealong > # is required if you have to replace one of the front ones. A 190D is a bit > # easier to work on than an XJ. If it has a dana 35 in the back, you could > # have problems with it down the road as they're a bit weak. The front axle > # is even weaker. Vacuum disconnect (if you have it) can be a problem, as > # can the axle u-joints if you don't have ABS (the ABS trucks had bigger > # joints for some reason). Almost all of them develop leaky rear main seals over > # time if the engine is original, and if the jeep is a clutch, the leaky rear > # main will take out the clutch. If it's before 93 or so, the slave cylinder is > # internal to the transmission. The AX-15 doesn't have a chamfered input shaft, > # so it's a stone cold b**** to get the trans lined back up. The exhaust manifold > # is just about guaranteed to crack unless you have an aftermarket header, so > # if this bothers you or if your emissions laws require you do something > # about it, plan on probably having to pull the intake to get to it - the AMC > # gassers weren't cross flow head designs. > # > # Then again, you're probably getting the diesel since you're overseas, and I > # have no idea what those had. Hopefully it's not the renault engine that > # couldn't tow its shadow across the street :) > # > # FWIW, I love my two XJs and haven't found anything that size that can replace > # them. > # > # On Mon, Jun 11, 2007 at 10:55:23PM +0100, Stephen Rigley wrote: > # > aha... makes sense ... altho it sometimes looks saggy but other times not.. > # > Thing is.. with the Jeep.. its an unknown.. granted, within a few > # > weeks I'll be "up to speed" (ha ha ... cue tumbleweed) with the ins > # > and outs of it. Heres a Q, out of all the most common issues with a > # > Cherokee, what is the most expensive problem it could have (am adding > # > up the parts + time for the Merc VS what-may-need-to-be-done on the > # > Jeep) ;-) > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2471 **********************************