From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jul 22 07:48:52 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, July 22 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2508 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Sick 240D Re: [db] Re: xj: Lumpy engine + smoking at idle Re: [db] Sick 240D Re: [db] Sick 240D Re: [db] Sick 240D Re: [db] Re: xj: Lumpy engine + smoking at idle Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 22:34:45 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] Sick 240D Hello Everyone, On the primer pump, there is a new design. The old one you have to unscrew, then pump and it has a white top. The new design, at least for my 300D Turbo, is black and is just a pump. You just pump it, no unscrewing it. I do not know if this also applies to 240Ds. Maybe I need to but one to find out. : - ) Marc. Jon Filina wrote: > Jason commented: > >> Heh heh. I guess I've been out of the loop. Too much going on. Forget >> everything but the primer pump, because that's all it is. I had the >> exact same problem with my '84 300D about a month or two ago. The >> primer pump, if very bad, lets so much air into the pump chamber that >> it will lose its prime while idling. >> >> A quickie fix, BTW, is to unscrew the plunger, pull it up, put a tight- >> fitting O-ring right under the top lip, and screw it down on the O- >> ring. Seals it up nicely when not in use, but doesn't make it work. Oh >> well. >> > > Waylon, there you go! Take care of the primer pump and you should be > back in business. > > The quick fix is a keeper, Jason. However, I'll probably never use > it. My '95 doesn't have a primer pump, but my '84 SD might. I > haven't opened the hood in so long, I forget. I really need to fix > the steering column lock. > > After thinking about it, why do you need the primer pump in the first > place? It's convenient, but not needed if you change the filters a > certain way. The plastic one you can't do much about. When you > replace it, without the benefit of a priming pump, be quick about it > and be prepared to crank the engine a bit before it catches. When > swapping out the spin on, fill the new one with fuel or injector > cleaner so you don't have to crank it so much. Once started, crack > the cap on the last injector until the air is out and the idle smooths > out, then tighten it down. > > That's not MB's recommendation. The procedure comes from owning an > '81 Rabbit and a '90 Jetta from '81 to '98. Neither had a primer > pump. The routine I followed when swapping out the fuel filter > involved cranking the dickens out of the engine until it started, > jumping out of the car and cracking number 4 injector. Once the air > was out I tightened it down. It usually took more than one attempt to > get it right. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I got my > 240D. That primer pump made things so easy! > > So, Waylon, you have choices. Use Jason's o-ring tip, remove the > pump, plug the hole and use my idea OR spend the $15-20 and put a new > pump on it. For convenience's sake, I'd do the latter. > > Take care, > > Jon > '95 E300D "Ernestine" > '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Lumpy engine + smoking at idle ok, so if you won't bring the entire jeep to the dock, remove the engine, put it on a pallet and put it on a boat for Seattle then. ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # no... not good.. but at least I know what the issue is now... herself # drove to her parents place this morning (3hrs) with no issues. If it # goes again I'll fix (1hr now that I know where to look) and prob sell # ... I have mixed feelings selling a vehicle with an issue like this # tho... # No pics I'm afraid .. am trawling the forums of other cars that had # the same engine (Landrover, Rover SD1, Ford Scorpio, etc) to see if it # was a common issue, there might be an easy fix out there somewhere... # Steve # # On 7/21/07, john wrote: # > that doesn't sound good... pictures? # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Sat, 21 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > # > # Thanks for the reply John, turned out to be the hydrolic lifter thing # > # had popped out from under the valve rocker thing (still need to get a # > # manual for this engine). Looked like someone had been in there before # > # too.. non-stock screw used in there. Changed the oil to synthetic # > # (there was mineral in there) and have crossed all my fingers ;-) # > # Lets see how long it lasts... # > # Steve # > # # > # On 7/20/07, john wrote: # > # > sounds like bad fuel, or even a little bit of water... # > # > # > # > I think you should have this thing towed to the nearest dock # > # > and shipped to Seattle... be happy to send a replacement Diesel # > # > straight away... (after all can't drive two cars home from the dock... # > # > ;) # > # > # > # > change the filters... get some Diesel fuel treatment and you might # > # > consider a different source for your fuel. # > # > # > # > I've only run across bad fuel 2x's in the last 25 years... once # > # > in Reno, and once at a station up here... # > # > # > # > You could crack the fuel lines at the top of the injectors and # > # > crank the engine over to pump "bad" fuel out... but if it's been # > # > running it'll probably work itself out... # > # > # > # > if it continues you may have a bad injector... cracking the lines # > # > at idle will tell you which one is bad... with a 4 cylinder # > # > Diesel you lose 25% power with ONE injector down... the line # > # > you crack that does NOT change the symptoms is the bad one... # > # > # > # > when replacing an injector remember to put a new little copper # > # > washer dealy bob in... (heat shield). # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # > # > # > # > # Hi folks, # > # > # # > # > # Quick Q, I came out to my Jeep yesterday eve ('96 XJ Sport 2.5td), it # > # > # started as normal but straight away I noticed it was very rough + # > # > # "lumpy", as if it was only firing on 3 cylinders, with the gearstick # > # > # shaking almost violently. Theres not much power when driving and no # > # > # sound of the turbo spinning up (I only tried # > # > # once as I didn't want to do any more damage). The fuel level was let # > # > # drop a little lower than normal just previous to this so am thinking # > # > # it may have picked up # > # > # some gunge from the tank, I had a look at the fuel filter and can't # > # > # see any significant amount of dirt in there tho.. # > # > # Also, when idling its now smoking a little.. over fuelling? Not # > # > # enough # > # > # air? Could all of the above be a dirty injector/air filter? They all # > # > # started happening at the same time.. # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # Any help/suggestions appreciated! # > # > # # > # > # Steve # > # > # # > # > # # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:19:14 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] Sick 240D Oops, I meant to write: "Maybe I need to _buy_ one to find out." : - ) Marc. Marc Z wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > On the primer pump, there is a new design. The old one you have to > unscrew, then pump and it has a white top. The new design, at least > for my 300D Turbo, is black and is just a pump. You just pump it, no > unscrewing it. > > I do not know if this also applies to 240Ds. Maybe I need to but one > to find out. : - ) > > Marc. > > > Jon Filina wrote: >> Jason commented: >> >>> Heh heh. I guess I've been out of the loop. Too much going on. Forget >>> everything but the primer pump, because that's all it is. I had the >>> exact same problem with my '84 300D about a month or two ago. The >>> primer pump, if very bad, lets so much air into the pump chamber that >>> it will lose its prime while idling. >>> >>> A quickie fix, BTW, is to unscrew the plunger, pull it up, put a tight- >>> fitting O-ring right under the top lip, and screw it down on the O- >>> ring. Seals it up nicely when not in use, but doesn't make it work. Oh >>> well. >>> >> >> Waylon, there you go! Take care of the primer pump and you should be >> back in business. >> >> The quick fix is a keeper, Jason. However, I'll probably never use >> it. My '95 doesn't have a primer pump, but my '84 SD might. I >> haven't opened the hood in so long, I forget. I really need to fix >> the steering column lock. >> >> After thinking about it, why do you need the primer pump in the first >> place? It's convenient, but not needed if you change the filters a >> certain way. The plastic one you can't do much about. When you >> replace it, without the benefit of a priming pump, be quick about it >> and be prepared to crank the engine a bit before it catches. When >> swapping out the spin on, fill the new one with fuel or injector >> cleaner so you don't have to crank it so much. Once started, crack >> the cap on the last injector until the air is out and the idle >> smooths out, then tighten it down. >> >> That's not MB's recommendation. The procedure comes from owning an >> '81 Rabbit and a '90 Jetta from '81 to '98. Neither had a primer >> pump. The routine I followed when swapping out the fuel filter >> involved cranking the dickens out of the engine until it started, >> jumping out of the car and cracking number 4 injector. Once the air >> was out I tightened it down. It usually took more than one attempt >> to get it right. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I got my >> 240D. That primer pump made things so easy! >> >> So, Waylon, you have choices. Use Jason's o-ring tip, remove the >> pump, plug the hole and use my idea OR spend the $15-20 and put a new >> pump on it. For convenience's sake, I'd do the latter. >> >> Take care, >> >> Jon >> '95 E300D "Ernestine" >> '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:30:56 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] Sick 240D Marc offered: > Hello Everyone, > > On the primer pump, there is a new design. The old one you have to > unscrew, then pump and it has a white top. The new design, at least > for my 300D Turbo, is black and is just a pump. You just pump it, no > unscrewing it. > > I do not know if this also applies to 240Ds. Maybe I need to but one > to find out. : - ) You beat me to the "but"... ;-) I think the new design also applies to the 240D. I never had a problem with the one on my 240D so I never "upgraded". I did have a problem with an inebriated gal in an SUV, talking on her cell phone while weaving in and out of traffic at speeds of 100 mph, plowing into my 240D while she was accelerating though........ But, that's a different story... Jon '95 E300D "Ernestine" '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 22:16:43 -0700 From: "Paul Masterson" Subject: Re: [db] Sick 240D I got a replacement from Performance Products last summer, and it was still a new white one, the same type as it replaced. Paul > Oops, I meant to write: "Maybe I need to _buy_ one to find out." : - ) > > Marc. > > Marc Z wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> On the primer pump, there is a new design. The old one you have to >> unscrew, then pump and it has a white top. The new design, at least >> for my 300D Turbo, is black and is just a pump. You just pump it, no >> unscrewing it. >> >> I do not know if this also applies to 240Ds. Maybe I need to but one >> to find out. : - ) >> >> Marc. >> >> >> Jon Filina wrote: >>> Jason commented: >>> >>>> Heh heh. I guess I've been out of the loop. Too much going on. Forget >>>> everything but the primer pump, because that's all it is. I had the >>>> exact same problem with my '84 300D about a month or two ago. The >>>> primer pump, if very bad, lets so much air into the pump chamber that >>>> it will lose its prime while idling. >>>> >>>> A quickie fix, BTW, is to unscrew the plunger, pull it up, put a tight- >>>> fitting O-ring right under the top lip, and screw it down on the O- >>>> ring. Seals it up nicely when not in use, but doesn't make it work. Oh >>>> well. >>>> >>> >>> Waylon, there you go! Take care of the primer pump and you should be >>> back in business. >>> >>> The quick fix is a keeper, Jason. However, I'll probably never use >>> it. My '95 doesn't have a primer pump, but my '84 SD might. I >>> haven't opened the hood in so long, I forget. I really need to fix >>> the steering column lock. >>> >>> After thinking about it, why do you need the primer pump in the first >>> place? It's convenient, but not needed if you change the filters a >>> certain way. The plastic one you can't do much about. When you >>> replace it, without the benefit of a priming pump, be quick about it >>> and be prepared to crank the engine a bit before it catches. When >>> swapping out the spin on, fill the new one with fuel or injector >>> cleaner so you don't have to crank it so much. Once started, crack >>> the cap on the last injector until the air is out and the idle >>> smooths out, then tighten it down. >>> >>> That's not MB's recommendation. The procedure comes from owning an >>> '81 Rabbit and a '90 Jetta from '81 to '98. Neither had a primer >>> pump. The routine I followed when swapping out the fuel filter >>> involved cranking the dickens out of the engine until it started, >>> jumping out of the car and cracking number 4 injector. Once the air >>> was out I tightened it down. It usually took more than one attempt >>> to get it right. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I got my >>> 240D. That primer pump made things so easy! >>> >>> So, Waylon, you have choices. Use Jason's o-ring tip, remove the >>> pump, plug the hole and use my idea OR spend the $15-20 and put a new >>> pump on it. For convenience's sake, I'd do the latter. >>> >>> Take care, >>> >>> Jon >>> '95 E300D "Ernestine" >>> '84 300SD "Bruno" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:43:56 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: Lumpy engine + smoking at idle If you reeally want one I could look into it ;-) Steve On 7/22/07, john wrote: > ok, so if you won't bring the entire jeep to the dock, > remove the engine, put it on a pallet and put it on a boat > for Seattle then. ;) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > # no... not good.. but at least I know what the issue is now... herself > # drove to her parents place this morning (3hrs) with no issues. If it > # goes again I'll fix (1hr now that I know where to look) and prob sell > # ... I have mixed feelings selling a vehicle with an issue like this > # tho... > # No pics I'm afraid .. am trawling the forums of other cars that had > # the same engine (Landrover, Rover SD1, Ford Scorpio, etc) to see if it > # was a common issue, there might be an easy fix out there somewhere... > # Steve > # > # On 7/21/07, john wrote: > # > that doesn't sound good... pictures? > # > > # > ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > On Sat, 21 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > # > > # > # Thanks for the reply John, turned out to be the hydrolic lifter thing > # > # had popped out from under the valve rocker thing (still need to get a > # > # manual for this engine). Looked like someone had been in there before > # > # too.. non-stock screw used in there. Changed the oil to synthetic > # > # (there was mineral in there) and have crossed all my fingers ;-) > # > # Lets see how long it lasts... > # > # Steve > # > # > # > # On 7/20/07, john wrote: > # > # > sounds like bad fuel, or even a little bit of water... > # > # > > # > # > I think you should have this thing towed to the nearest dock > # > # > and shipped to Seattle... be happy to send a replacement Diesel > # > # > straight away... (after all can't drive two cars home from the dock... > # > # > ;) > # > # > > # > # > change the filters... get some Diesel fuel treatment and you might > # > # > consider a different source for your fuel. > # > # > > # > # > I've only run across bad fuel 2x's in the last 25 years... once > # > # > in Reno, and once at a station up here... > # > # > > # > # > You could crack the fuel lines at the top of the injectors and > # > # > crank the engine over to pump "bad" fuel out... but if it's been > # > # > running it'll probably work itself out... > # > # > > # > # > if it continues you may have a bad injector... cracking the lines > # > # > at idle will tell you which one is bad... with a 4 cylinder > # > # > Diesel you lose 25% power with ONE injector down... the line > # > # > you crack that does NOT change the symptoms is the bad one... > # > # > > # > # > when replacing an injector remember to put a new little copper > # > # > washer dealy bob in... (heat shield). > # > # > > # > # > john > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > > # > # > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # Hi folks, > # > # > # > # > # > # Quick Q, I came out to my Jeep yesterday eve ('96 XJ Sport 2.5td), it > # > # > # started as normal but straight away I noticed it was very rough + > # > # > # "lumpy", as if it was only firing on 3 cylinders, with the gearstick > # > # > # shaking almost violently. Theres not much power when driving and no > # > # > # sound of the turbo spinning up (I only tried > # > # > # once as I didn't want to do any more damage). The fuel level was let > # > # > # drop a little lower than normal just previous to this so am thinking > # > # > # it may have picked up > # > # > # some gunge from the tank, I had a look at the fuel filter and can't > # > # > # see any significant amount of dirt in there tho.. > # > # > # Also, when idling its now smoking a little.. over fuelling? Not > # > # > # enough > # > # > # air? Could all of the above be a dirty injector/air filter? They all > # > # > # started happening at the same time.. > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # Any help/suggestions appreciated! > # > # > # > # > # > # Steve > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2508 **********************************