From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 20 05:50:41 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 20 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2542 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] experimental pages, A, B or C? Re: [db] Anyone home? Re: [db] 77 joys bring 77 sorrows Re: [db] 77 joys bring 77 sorrows Re: [db] Pre-heating relay ? Re: [db] pictures... Re: [db] Anyone home? Re: [db] Anyone home? [db] 1980 240d - moldy, not rusty, inop AT Re: [db] pictures... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] experimental pages, A, B or C? ok, trying to figure out a way of presenting a myriad of pictures and not clog the phone lines of friends still without cable... I've been presenting pictures all in one file, which works until there's a lot of 'em: (this file only has about six pictures:) http://wagoneers.com/WJ/99WJ-pix-MtBaker-Sep07/ that was ok until there were 100 pictures like this one: (dialups, don't try this, you'll hurt yourself. ;) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/ALL.html so then I tried a thumbnail approach like this: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-17-89GW-garden/ALL.html (which is easy to code, but for me annoying to view, have to move to another window to see...) so, in looking for my notes on Frames, I found a Javascript slideshow on my server, DIALUP types, please try this one: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2007/09-Sep-13-MtBaker-Shuksan-WA/A-slideshow-Baker.html This javascript slideshow requires some manual work to get the images sequenced, might be able to write a loop to do it... will have to brush up on my javascript to see if I can put the filenames under the image... really small snippet of code, pretty elegant, source info in the file. so, let me know. A) ALL in one file in line B) Thumbnails popping a "new" window with a full size image C) the Javascript slideshow john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:53:04 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Anyone home? Actually, I just got home. Was in Ecuador for 16 days, for a wedding and other tourist type things. Beautiful country, friendly people, and turns out that third world countries have a lot of things figured out that puzzle the snot out of stateside people - like public transit for one. I haven't driven a benz in a long while. The wagon's been black flagged since I needed to swap the head (woohoo, 603 head cracking), the 87 300D got hit, the 190D still needs work, and the 78 300D is still suffering from deer damage, so I'm driving a 91 2.0L jetta. Woo. Glad to hear things are going well, though, Jon. A friend of mine from work wasn't quite as lucky, and is on round two of colon cancer, complete with surgery, colostomy, and chemo. He's supposedly out of chemo in a month, and should be put back together somewhat shortly afterwards. Like anything it's a wakeup call. Not necessarily just that maybe there's a few things you can do to live longer, but moreso that life is yours and you should enjoy it as much as you can. Having friends almost 30 years older than me gave me a somewhat healthy perspective, I guess. In other news dieselwise, I bought an 83 BJ60. Think toyota landcruiser of the era (wagon style), but four cylinder (3B if you know yoters) diesel and five speed manual (H55F I think). Should be a fun beast, at the very minimum. I think I'd lose a drag race to a 240D with it though. And John, AMC v8s are like ford v8s. The only way they don't leak exhaust is if you turn the key off and drive something else :) On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 10:21:33PM -0500, Jon Filina wrote: > Well, that's what I figured. Everyone except me has been busy. > > I'm fixin' to hit the sack. I have an appointment with the doctor in > the morning to get the rest of my stitches out and see how I'm progressing. > > I miss my Benz... > > Jon > > John wrote: > > >yep... was just out wrenching on Old Blue II... busted > >off the banjo bolts on the replacement exhaust manifold... :( > > > >took some pictures, will share later, even though you'll > >only see a corner of a Diesel Benz... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:26:23 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] 77 joys bring 77 sorrows I think it decidedly IS more Rube Goldberg than others. There's a fistful (probably about 24!) of vacuum lines going to a box under the hood with hoses going into it. That's EXTREME Rube Goldberg-ism! So does nobody still have one this old? Am I the only one with this system??? Thanks for the general info, but has nobody worked on one like this??? Jason - -- "Jerry Kaidor" wrote: > The issue I'm really concerned about is the climate control. It does zippo > zilch nada. Nothing happens at all when you push the buttons. Is there any > procedure to test the Rube Goldberg climate control system in that? *** I don't think the CC system is any more "rube goldberg" than others of the same vintage. First, you can make sure that it's getting electricity. Maybe a corroded fuse? Then you can pop out the control box and do some judicious clip-leading to see if the blowers work. The A/C system can also be clip-leaded at the compressor to see if it works. Well, if it does, you can count yourself REALLY lucky - they usually don't. Usually, you'll find the compressor frozen. A common problem is bad solder joints in the control box. It can be taken apart and resoldered. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry-at-tr2.com ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] 77 joys bring 77 sorrows jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > I think it decidedly IS more Rube Goldberg than others. There's a fistful > (probably about 24!) of vacuum lines going to a box under the hood with hoses > going into it. That's EXTREME Rube Goldberg-ism! > *** In the 70's that's just how you did complex control in a car. Vacuum actuators are cheaper than electrical solenoids. I used to have a 1967 Cadillac. Let me describe the climate control: There was an electrical temperature sensor inside the car, and another one outside. These were arranged in a loop with the temperature control pot. The loop went to a proportional ( not just on-and-off, but variable-strenth ) vacuum valve. The proportional valve output to a vacuum "tower" that looked like a distributor cap, only instead of wires, a bunch of vacuum lines came off the top. The rotating body of the tower was drilled with various passages. Basically, the tower had - IIRC - 8 positions, ranging from full-blast-cool to full-blast-heat. The vacuum lines coming off the top of the tower manipulated all the stuff that had to happen to accomplish heating and cooling - routing air flaps, turning the AC compressor on and off, turning the heater valve on & off, turning the blowers up & down etc. Oh, and there was also a mezannine in the tower containing a big electrical multi-contact rotary switch. This all changed of course in the 90's with the advent of microprocessors. Nowadays, I'm sure you will find very straightforward schematics with everything just getting a straight shot to the CPU. But that just means that Rube has moved out of sight, into the software. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:17:00 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [db] Pre-heating relay ? Hey, I was plowing through my inbox trying to clean it out a bit, and saw this thread. I'd bet based on my '77 that yours is serial glow plugs, and the controller is probably in the firewall. Follow the glow plug feed wire through the fusible link to it. But let me warn you it's probably hard to get to. I haven't tried, but it looks hard on mine. I have a novel way of checking glow plugs, which I would do first, since the controller uses the plug resistance to determine when to shut the light off. Just disconnect the power wires, and use a hot jumper wire to test for continuity. Good plugs arc, bad ones do nothing. My 2c. Jason - -----Original Message----- From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subj: Re: [db] Pre-heating relay ? Date: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:00 pm Size: 433 bytes To: Undisclosed.Recipients: ; cc: diesel-benz list Been perusing the Haynes Book of Lies, which is startingly elusive on the subject of pre-heating relays; can anyone help me locate the animal ? It is on a 1979 European market 300D W123 Cheers, Ron. - -- Coedite eos, novit enim Dominus qui sunt ejus! -- Arnaud Amauri -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] pictures... yes, a redirect to firefox land would be amusing... but that would go against all I've been taught as a webmaster... interoperability is the name of the game... :) live and let live... those chosing the way of redmond pay the price from time to time... the future is obvious... vista will make the choice to linux crystal clear... :) 16 Watts for Linux, 19 Watts for XP and 36 Watts for Vista... care about battery life, the planet, your electric bill, the load on your ac, or even the remaining skin on your lap? :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Kevin wrote: # If you're both bored and clever, you can test to see if a browser is # netscape based or exploder based, and if they're exploder based send them # to an alternate page (the firefox download page perhaps, or Torvald's # home page maybe?) # # I know, try to be helpful :) # # On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 11:36:48PM -0700, john wrote: # > trying something new... created thumbnail images (200 pixels) that # > open up the larger image (in this experiment 800 pixels) into a "new" window. # > Subsequent clicks overwrite that window so there aren't a bunch of new windows # > opened up... I've only tested this in Firefox as anyone that I know is smart # > enough not to use Internet Explorer. And if someone should slip into my # > world that only uses Internet Explorer and it doesn't work, well... that # > person will obviously have other issues than not being able to look at these # > pictures, but given enough time I may try to troubleshoot it and fix it, # > more for the challenge more than anything else... :) And of course I # > will try to educate such a person into the glorious world of open source and # > all that... # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Anyone home? I've had several ford v8's, never had exhaust or intake leaks... pictures of the Diesel 4x4??? :) welcome back... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Kevin wrote: # Actually, I just got home. Was in Ecuador for 16 days, for a wedding and # other tourist type things. Beautiful country, friendly people, and turns # out that third world countries have a lot of things figured out that puzzle # the snot out of stateside people - like public transit for one. # # I haven't driven a benz in a long while. The wagon's been black flagged since # I needed to swap the head (woohoo, 603 head cracking), the 87 300D got hit, # the 190D still needs work, and the 78 300D is still suffering from deer # damage, so I'm driving a 91 2.0L jetta. Woo. # # Glad to hear things are going well, though, Jon. A friend of mine from work # wasn't quite as lucky, and is on round two of colon cancer, complete with # surgery, colostomy, and chemo. He's supposedly out of chemo in a month, and # should be put back together somewhat shortly afterwards. Like anything it's a # wakeup call. Not necessarily just that maybe there's a few things you can do # to live longer, but moreso that life is yours and you should enjoy it as much # as you can. Having friends almost 30 years older than me gave me a somewhat # healthy perspective, I guess. # # In other news dieselwise, I bought an 83 BJ60. Think toyota landcruiser of # the era (wagon style), but four cylinder (3B if you know yoters) diesel and # five speed manual (H55F I think). Should be a fun beast, at the very # minimum. I think I'd lose a drag race to a 240D with it though. # # And John, AMC v8s are like ford v8s. The only way they don't leak exhaust # is if you turn the key off and drive something else :) # # On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 10:21:33PM -0500, Jon Filina wrote: # > Well, that's what I figured. Everyone except me has been busy. # > # > I'm fixin' to hit the sack. I have an appointment with the doctor in # > the morning to get the rest of my stitches out and see how I'm progressing. # > # > I miss my Benz... # > # > Jon # > # > John wrote: # > # > >yep... was just out wrenching on Old Blue II... busted # > >off the banjo bolts on the replacement exhaust manifold... :( # > > # > >took some pictures, will share later, even though you'll # > >only see a corner of a Diesel Benz... ;) # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:10:58 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Anyone home? Heh. Not quite as bad as I made them out to be, but they do seem to pick up more than their fair share of leaks. Anyways, the cruiser pics are at http://www.punk.net/~kevin/bj60 - WARNING - I am lazy, and didn't shrink them from what they were when I got them, so they're anywhere from a half meg to a meg a piece, and there's lots of them, and they're not thumbnailed. Yes, this is wasteful american style at its best. If you don't have a fast enough connection to download a pic that big, whine at me and I'll shrink some of them. The BJ60 was not imported stateside, but they appear in canada. Unfortunately, the tin worm gets a hold of them up there. This one isn't too far gone, has low mileage (odometer is in km/h if you see that picture), and is fairly complete, though the paint is a bad repaint, and the interior is certainly 24 years old. Has a warn winch hidden in the huge front bumper, and ARB air lockers front and rear. Should be mildly amusing to say the least, even though the 93 XJ will leave it sitting in pretty much all aspects - more power, locked front posi rear, little smaller, better flex in the suspension, bigger tires... etc. This cruiser was imported by someone else, so I don't have to deal with it. There is an EPA emissions tidbit on file for BJ/HJ cruisers, so they can be brought in without accruing the wrath of the emissions people. On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 06:10:08PM -0700, john wrote: > I've had several ford v8's, never had exhaust or intake leaks... > > pictures of the Diesel 4x4??? :) > > welcome back... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:22:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] 1980 240d - moldy, not rusty, inop AT a friend of a friend has a moldy, non-running 1980 240D AT that will be coming up for sale... not sure of the value... waiting for pictures... I looked at it a few years ago and it had water problems in the interior... and trunk... came up from SoCal, no rust though, just mold... Paul, may have a solution to your rust problem buddy! Would like the left over engine and trans. ;) Or maybe not... 4 active jeep projects should be my limit, eh? the '89 GW is coming along splendidly... the '91 GW is a total unknown... should be done already... the '83 J10 is a major disappointment... looking at a '99 XJ to replace all the FSJs... son is willing to share the cost of insurance so I can keep Shadowfax in the family... will let him use it for school commuting to give him extra incentive to get his mechanical engineering degree. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:42:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] pictures... Oh, come on John... Here's an article from Microsoft on how to use less power. I've only had a change to skim the article but I didn't see any reference to switching from Vista to Linux... ;) Jim Build a Green Data Center Companies around the world are beginning to think of ways to save energy and reduce costs, yet there is little guidance on how you can take action. Get started with our introduction to planning, designing, and implementing a green data center in your organization. - --- john wrote: > yes, a redirect to firefox land would be amusing... > but > that would go against all I've been taught as a > webmaster... > interoperability is the name of the game... :) > live and let live... > those chosing the way of redmond pay the price from > time to > time... the future is obvious... vista will make > the choice to > linux crystal clear... :) 16 Watts for Linux, 19 > Watts for XP > and 36 Watts for Vista... care about battery life, > the planet, > your electric bill, the load on your ac, or even the > remaining > skin on your lap? :) > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** > http://wagoneers.com ** > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Kevin wrote: > > # If you're both bored and clever, you can test to > see if a browser is > # netscape based or exploder based, and if they're > exploder based send them > # to an alternate page (the firefox download page > perhaps, or Torvald's > # home page maybe?) > # > # I know, try to be helpful :) > # > # On Mon, Sep 17, 2007 at 11:36:48PM -0700, john > wrote: > # > trying something new... created thumbnail > images (200 pixels) that > # > open up the larger image (in this experiment > 800 pixels) into a "new" window. > # > Subsequent clicks overwrite that window so > there aren't a bunch of new windows > # > opened up... I've only tested this in Firefox > as anyone that I know is smart > # > enough not to use Internet Explorer. And if > someone should slip into my > # > world that only uses Internet Explorer and it > doesn't work, well... that > # > person will obviously have other issues than > not being able to look at these > # > pictures, but given enough time I may try to > troubleshoot it and fix it, > # > more for the challenge more than anything > else... :) And of course I > # > will try to educate such a person into the > glorious world of open source and > # > all that... > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2542 **********************************