From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 20 09:31:42 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, October 20 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2563 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Re: [db] W123 TD rear trailing arm Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... Re: SV: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:19:56 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Yesterday I had to push start the car as it wouldn't start on the key. The car has a new-ish battery. The glow plug light illuminates and goes out as normal, then when I turn the key I can see the other lights dim slightly, that discounts any ignition key faults, so power is going somewhere. Where is the starter motor relay and how can I check it? What is the best way to check the power leads on the motor itself? I know it gets a fair whack of power when starting so am cautious about sticking a multimeter anywhere near it. Cheers, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:33:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W123 TD rear trailing arm I've had some experience with this sort of problem with Jeeps... I'm not sure this will be the correct action on a Mercedes though... two ways you can fix a hole that has become elongated because of a loose bolt/bushing.... 1) you can remove the arm and weld up material to replace the worn material... this could cause metal embrittlement... not recommended... 2) you can fabricate a plate that goes over the hole and either weld it in or bolt it in... OR... THE BEST SOLUTION... replace the arm with a new one. :) then there is always duct tape and bailing wire... fortunately (for you guys) I don't have pictures of some of the fixes I've done on old Jeeps... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # One of the mounting arms on my driver's side rear trailing arm seems # loose.. the bushing was replaced a year ago by the previous owner, but # it seems like the hole for the bolt is too big or something.. I can # see movement if I push up on it with my hand. # Is it a case of dropping the subframe to get at this 24mm bolt? Its # quite tight in near the body.. # # Cheers # Steve # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD could still be the battery... just went through this with my '91 300D... turns out the voltage regulator wasn't permitting enough voltage to keep the battery fully charged... it was down in the 13.6V range... every other week the car wouldn't start... had the battery checked, it was ok... so, if your battery isn't getting charged enough it could do this as well... but it sounds more like a starter... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # Yesterday I had to push start the car as it wouldn't start on the key. # The car has a new-ish battery. The glow plug light illuminates and # goes out as normal, then when I turn the key I can see the other # lights dim slightly, that discounts any ignition key faults, so power # is going somewhere. # Where is the starter motor relay and how can I check it? # What is the best way to check the power leads on the motor itself? I # know it gets a fair whack of power when starting so am cautious about # sticking a multimeter anywhere near it. # Cheers, # Steve # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: http://www.irishfuelprices.com/diesel.php so, if I'm reading this correctly, it's about 1.10 Euro / liter... so that's 3.785 * 1.10 * (conversion rate) = $/gal. busy, will do the math later, but it looks to be around $4.50/gallon give or take a bit... I tanked up last night at $3.56/gallon!!!!! Had a windstorm on the way, still had almost 1/2 a tank, but decided to top off... Unleaded was "only" at $3.08/gal. Interestingly enough it appears our fuel costs more in Washington state than in California... possibly the highest in the US... gotta love those tree huggers in olympia... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... just put the link data from Sune in Sweden, http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/ and converting via http://www.xe.com/ I came up with about $6/gallon in most of Europe... around $6.14 in Germany... !!!! john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # {- http://www.irishfuelprices.com/diesel.php # {- # {- so, if I'm reading this correctly, it's about 1.10 Euro / liter... # {- so that's 3.785 * 1.10 * (conversion rate) = $/gal. # {- # {- busy, will do the math later, but it looks to be around $4.50/gallon # {- give or take a bit... # # Yes, that's right. Too busy to look up the coversion rate? Just put "1 # euro in dollars" into Google: # http://www.google.com/search?q=1+euro+in+dollars # # % dc # 3.785 1.1 1.425 **p # 5.93298 # # So just under $6/gallon. # # Isn't that less than a 20% increase for them in the last five years? # Compared to a 100% increase for us? # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # A girl criticized my apartment so I knocked her flat. # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: SV: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... thanx Sune! That's a great link! http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/ (http://xe.com for $ conversion) It appears that the US is becoming as socialistic and overtaxed as Europe... makes me feel so much better that Europe still pays more... :) not... hope all is well with you. You sold your FSJ and picked up an XJ a while back, how's it doing? I've been thinking about getting a late model XJ limited... still waiting or my '91 Grand Wagoneer to come home with the 6.2L Diesel setup, maybe tomorrow... if not, most likely next week. If the GW doesn't work out I will be shopping for a '97 to '01 XJ limited... :) john -o|||||o- 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (SJ) 6.2/700r4/np228 (Omega) 1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (SJ) 5.9/727/np229 (old blue II - soon for sale) 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (WJ) 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) hydraulic dump trailer 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 4.2/T-5/NP208 (SuperDawg) 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) 1967 Jeep J100 (SJ)Panel 232/T-85/D20 (Rambo) -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Sune Cullberg wrote: # Here is a link to fuel costs in europe compared to usa.. # http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/ # # /Sune # Sweden # http://www.irishfuelprices.com/diesel.php ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:41:56 -0400 From: "Wiard Pless" Subject: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 On Craigslist: http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/car/453817736.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 wow... that looks like a good deal... is a '96 one of the "ok" years? is this a 124? dang, have class this weekend... ;) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Wiard Pless wrote: # On Craigslist: # # # http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/car/453817736.html # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:50:33 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 96 is a W210, if diesel, it's a non-turbo 606. Think JB's 95 E300D engine. On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 01:59:23PM -0700, john wrote: > wow... that looks like a good deal... > > is a '96 one of the "ok" years? is this a 124? > > dang, have class this weekend... ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1996 f/s in Portland, OR $ 2500.00 sounds like trouble with a capital T. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Kevin wrote: # 96 is a W210, if diesel, it's a non-turbo 606. Think JB's 95 E300D engine. # # On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 01:59:23PM -0700, john wrote: # > wow... that looks like a good deal... # > # > is a '96 one of the "ok" years? is this a 124? # > # > dang, have class this weekend... ;) # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:59:42 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: fuel costs and wheel options... Here in central NC, I drove my a Flying J truck stop which usually has the best prices and they are: $2.97 for diesel, $2.67 for regular unleaded. Marc Z. john wrote: > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > http://www.irishfuelprices.com/diesel.php > > so, if I'm reading this correctly, it's about 1.10 Euro / liter... > so that's 3.785 * 1.10 * (conversion rate) = $/gal. > > busy, will do the math later, but it looks to be around $4.50/gallon > give or take a bit... > > I tanked up last night at $3.56/gallon!!!!! Had a windstorm on > the way, still had almost 1/2 a tank, but decided to top off... > > Unleaded was "only" at $3.08/gal. Interestingly enough it appears > our fuel costs more in Washington state than in California... possibly > the highest in the US... gotta love those tree huggers in olympia... :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:37:00 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Having been through this recently, you starter solenoid has died. The relay and everything was in the starter assy on 123s, and I doubt it changed much to 124s. Besides, if the other lights are dimming when you turn the key, the relay is working and everything is drawing, but the solenoid isn't operating. The solenoid actually completes the circuit for the motor. You can test it by using a BIG jumper wire to put positive battery voltage on the big terminals on the outside. If neither turns the engine, even if one turns the starter, the solenoid is bad. Usually the whole starter is replaced in this case, although the solenoid can be replaced in the assembly on some models. Hope that helps. Jason - -----Original Message----- From: john Subj: Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:25 pm Size: 1K To: Stephen Rigley cc: diesel-benz list could still be the battery... just went through this with my '91 300D... turns out the voltage regulator wasn't permitting enough voltage to keep the battery fully charged... it was down in the 13.6V range... every other week the car wouldn't start... had the battery checked, it was ok... so, if your battery isn't getting charged enough it could do this as well... but it sounds more like a starter... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # Yesterday I had to push start the car as it wouldn't start on the key. # The car has a new-ish battery. The glow plug light illuminates and # goes out as normal, then when I turn the key I can see the other # lights dim slightly, that discounts any ignition key faults, so power # is going somewhere. # Where is the starter motor relay and how can I check it? # What is the best way to check the power leads on the motor itself? I # know it gets a fair whack of power when starting so am cautious about # sticking a multimeter anywhere near it. # Cheers, # Steve # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:21:17 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD it does indeed help. The engine is from a w201 but I'm assuming they also came with the same style starter gubbins. Steve On 10/20/07, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Having been through this recently, you starter solenoid has died. The relay and everything was in the starter assy on 123s, and I doubt it changed much to 124s. Besides, if the other lights are dimming when you turn the key, the relay is working and everything is drawing, but the solenoid isn't operating. The solenoid actually completes the circuit for the motor. > > You can test it by using a BIG jumper wire to put positive battery voltage on the big terminals on the outside. If neither turns the engine, even if one turns the starter, the solenoid is bad. Usually the whole starter is replaced in this case, although the solenoid can be replaced in the assembly on some models. > > Hope that helps. > > Jason > -----Original Message----- > > From: john > Subj: Re: [db] Intermittently starting 2.5TD > Date: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:25 pm > Size: 1K > To: Stephen Rigley > cc: diesel-benz list > > could still be the battery... just went through this with > my '91 300D... turns out the voltage regulator wasn't permitting > enough voltage to keep the battery fully charged... it was > down in the 13.6V range... every other week the car wouldn't > start... had the battery checked, it was ok... > > so, if your battery isn't getting charged enough it could do this > as well... but it sounds more like a starter... > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > # Yesterday I had to push start the car as it wouldn't start on the key. > # The car has a new-ish battery. The glow plug light illuminates and > # goes out as normal, then when I turn the key I can see the other > # lights dim slightly, that discounts any ignition key faults, so power > # is going somewhere. > # Where is the starter motor relay and how can I check it? > # What is the best way to check the power leads on the motor itself? I > # know it gets a fair whack of power when starting so am cautious about > # sticking a multimeter anywhere near it. > # Cheers, > # Steve > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2563 **********************************