From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Oct 28 08:26:18 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, October 28 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2572 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] best chase scene ever Re: [db] best chase scene ever [db] It will work Re: [db] best chase scene ever [db] Wandering and a shaking Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking [db] biodiesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:28:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] best chase scene ever john wrote: > > You know that steve mcqueen did all his own stunts... > he also died pretty young of lung cancer too from > smoking. :( *** Actually from working on cars. Steve used to work at a brake shop. They routinely cleaned the asbestos dust off with compressed air. Nobody knew.... - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] best chase scene ever That scene was definitely put together out of bits and pieces. They shoot hills at one end of town, and come down the other side in totally other neighborhoods, miles away. - Jerry "San Francisco Native" Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:18:00 -0400 From: Subject: [db] It will work I got the seller to take some pics of the back of the control, and it will work; I'll just have to take the guts out of that mount and pin them in my mount. No big deal. BONUS: I am missing the Zebrano wood in mine, and with a little trimming, I can have it back from that one! J ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] best chase scene ever He died of lung cancer from smoking, lots of us worked on old brakes that are still around.... at least those of us that don't smoke... folks that worked in mines or applied asbestos were at risk from the small fibers. have a friend that just had heart surgery, asked him if he ever smoked, he had... I've heard from a few doctors that non-smokers don't have open heart surgery... guess smoking causes large amounts of deposits... anyway, don't won't to stir up emotions or denial among our smoking list friends, but I've lost too many friends and relatives to cigarettes... :( ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Jerome Kaidor wrote: # john wrote: # > # > You know that steve mcqueen did all his own stunts... # > he also died pretty young of lung cancer too from # > smoking. :( # # *** Actually from working on cars. Steve used to work at a # brake shop. They routinely cleaned the asbestos dust off with # compressed air. Nobody knew.... # # - Jerry Kaidor # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:58:44 -0700 From: "Scott Haaland" Subject: [db] Wandering and a shaking Hi all, Long time since I posted.I've been lurking on and off as I have time. Every once in a while I even partake in the popcorn. So, my 1985 190D 2.2L is experiencing two major problems, and I wanted to get some advice before I order parts: 1) It started wandering as I drive down the road.slow speeds and fast speeds alike..it doesn't really pull one way or the other, but squirms back and forth in a straight line (if that makes any sense) a. I crawled under the car today, and it looks like the tie rod ends are bent. I'm assuming that I should at least replace the tie rod ends, if not the whole assembly (all the rubber looks very old, so ordering the assembly seems the best option). If I order the assembly, do I also need any bushings? It looks like the assembly should come with all the bushings? b. Should I replace the center tie rod as a precaution, so that all three parts are new? c. I just moved and can't find my shop manual CD, is there anything tricky about the remove and replace? 2) A very annoying vibration/shimmy at high speeds.pretty much anything over 60 mph, and anything over 80mph makes it feel like the car is going to fall to pieces. a. I was thinking (until reading Jason's posts this week) that it was an out of balance tire, but maybe now I'm suspecting the center bearing on the drive shaft? b. It is a cyclical vibration, going from smooth to slight vibration, building in intensity, then back to smooth. Takes about 15 seconds at 75 mph to go through the whole cycle. c. Does this sound more like an out of balance tire, or a center bearing or other?? d. I would hate to pay for a tire balance right now.the tires are marginal and I could even replace them soon with winter coming on..if I'm going to put any money into the tires, I'll probably get new ones at Costco with lifetime rotate and balance included. e. John, these are the same goodyears that you had on it when I bought it from you. I've only got 249,400 on the speedo.I think it had 220K or 230K when I bought it from you several years ago. The drivers side front tire is wearing very badly on the outside edge, and the inside (about where the tie rod is), there is some sign of rubbing.the rubber on the tire right next to the rim is very rough and looks like it's being rubbed by something. I'm suspecting the the bent tie rod end is briefly rubbing under compression (such as entering driveways, hitting speed bumps, etc.), but I can't be sure. I jacked it up and turned the wheel both ways, and it still has a couple of cm of space between the tie rod end and the wheel. The current plan is to order left, right and middle tie rod assemblies, replace all three, then take it in for an alignment. On the good news side, I got 35.4 mpg on the last tank.which is a personal best. I usually get 33 mpg tops.not sure what changed. On the personal side, we moved about 2 years ago to Fresno, and we're now back in Sacramento, but I need to drive to Fresno once per week for business, and the 190D is going to be my primary ride because of the economy. It's less than half the cost in fuel of our 1996 Suburban with the 6.5L TurboDiesel, since I get 16 mpg max in that beast. I need to get these issues fixed so that I don't end up on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, not to mention the comfort issues with the wandering and vibration. Thanks, Scott P.S. Sorry for the long post.it's been pent up for 2 years now.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking Scott, I'd take it to a reputable front end shop and have them go through it... they have the tools and all to fix it correctly. It could be tires... a front end issue wouldn't happen overnight like that... If you're sitting still and turn the wheel lock to lock and don't feel any free play or hear any clunking I'd check the lug nuts and tires. :) I don't remember what the best mileage I got with that thing, I know it was good... Loved the color of that thing, it was so nice and crisp looking. One of those things would be pretty sweet with a 2.5L TD. Without the turbo that 2.2L just doesn't seem to get rolling in traffic as quickly as I would have liked. But once it was going it was fine. But going at one speed is a luxury we don't seem to be able to afford in the Puget Sound. :) We drove down to Seattle on the surface streets last night... there were a couple blocks there where I was passed TWICE... by the same bicyclist. :) And it was an old single speed bike too. Anyway, on the front end, I highly recommend a good alignment shop... check around... I'd even ask the local benz dealer who they would recommend (ask the parts counter guy. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Scott Haaland wrote: # Hi all, # # # # Long time since I posted.I've been lurking on and off as I have time. Every # once in a while I even partake in the popcorn. # # # # So, my 1985 190D 2.2L is experiencing two major problems, and I wanted to # get some advice before I order parts: # # 1) It started wandering as I drive down the road.slow speeds and fast # speeds alike..it doesn't really pull one way or the other, but squirms back # and forth in a straight line (if that makes any sense) # # a. I crawled under the car today, and it looks like the tie rod ends # are bent. I'm assuming that I should at least replace the tie rod ends, if # not the whole assembly (all the rubber looks very old, so ordering the # assembly seems the best option). If I order the assembly, do I also need # any bushings? It looks like the assembly should come with all the bushings? # # b. Should I replace the center tie rod as a precaution, so that all # three parts are new? # # c. I just moved and can't find my shop manual CD, is there anything # tricky about the remove and replace? # # 2) A very annoying vibration/shimmy at high speeds.pretty much # anything over 60 mph, and anything over 80mph makes it feel like the car is # going to fall to pieces. # # a. I was thinking (until reading Jason's posts this week) that it was # an out of balance tire, but maybe now I'm suspecting the center bearing on # the drive shaft? # # b. It is a cyclical vibration, going from smooth to slight vibration, # building in intensity, then back to smooth. Takes about 15 seconds at 75 # mph to go through the whole cycle. # # c. Does this sound more like an out of balance tire, or a center # bearing or other?? # # d. I would hate to pay for a tire balance right now.the tires are # marginal and I could even replace them soon with winter coming on..if I'm # going to put any money into the tires, I'll probably get new ones at Costco # with lifetime rotate and balance included. # # e. John, these are the same goodyears that you had on it when I bought # it from you. I've only got 249,400 on the speedo.I think it had 220K or # 230K when I bought it from you several years ago. # # # # The drivers side front tire is wearing very badly on the outside edge, and # the inside (about where the tie rod is), there is some sign of rubbing.the # rubber on the tire right next to the rim is very rough and looks like it's # being rubbed by something. I'm suspecting the the bent tie rod end is # briefly rubbing under compression (such as entering driveways, hitting speed # bumps, etc.), but I can't be sure. I jacked it up and turned the wheel both # ways, and it still has a couple of cm of space between the tie rod end and # the wheel. # # # # The current plan is to order left, right and middle tie rod assemblies, # replace all three, then take it in for an alignment. # # # # On the good news side, I got 35.4 mpg on the last tank.which is a personal # best. I usually get 33 mpg tops.not sure what changed. # # # # On the personal side, we moved about 2 years ago to Fresno, and we're now # back in Sacramento, but I need to drive to Fresno once per week for # business, and the 190D is going to be my primary ride because of the # economy. It's less than half the cost in fuel of our 1996 Suburban with the # 6.5L TurboDiesel, since I get 16 mpg max in that beast. I need to get # these issues fixed so that I don't end up on the side of the road in the # middle of nowhere, not to mention the comfort issues with the wandering and # vibration. # # # # Thanks, # Scott # # P.S. Sorry for the long post.it's been pent up for 2 years now.. # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:07:32 -0400 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking My 190D is on it's third pair of tie rods. The front end design seems to be a weak spot. I don't bother replacing the ends, as the assemblies are cheap and it's safer to replace the lot. That will certainly cure your wandering. If the tie rod ends are sloppy, it would also explain your shimmy. Once the tie rods are replaced, you'll need a wheel alignment. I've been buying a lot of Mercedes parts from www.rockauto.com, including tie rod ends. The current tie rods are cheapo Karlyn, and they cost about $30 for both sides, complete! There are no bushings involved, what you see is a dust boot. Just undo the nuts and use a pickle fork to pop the old tie rod ends out of the sockets. Bolt the new ones in, and you're done, except for alignment. The only complication will come if the thread is very rusty, in which case you'll have to use some creative persuasion. The center link seems more durable than the tie rods. You should be sure to check your ball joints when you replace the tie rods. Mike Frank At 09:58 PM 10/27/2007, Scott Haaland wrote: >So, my 1985 190D 2.2L is experiencing two major problems, and I wanted to >get some advice before I order parts: > >1) It started wandering as I drive down the road.slow speeds and fast >speeds alike..it doesn't really pull one way or the other, but squirms back >and forth in a straight line (if that makes any sense) > > >2) A very annoying vibration/shimmy at high speeds.pretty much >anything over 60 mph, and anything over 80mph makes it feel like the car is >going to fall to pieces. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Wandering and a shaking Mike, What's your experience with the cost of labor to replace those parts? I've found it doesn't cost much to have them pop the parts in and do the alignment... Also, if you don't have a pickle fork you can release the parts by placing a sledge hammer behind the part and hitting it with another hammer... works quite well, even on Jeep parts... so long as you can get a full swing on it. :) Are there any aftermarket performance products that could be had to help eliminate this problem? Do the 190Es with the 16 valve engines have enhanced suspensions maybe??? john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 28 Oct 2007, Mike Frank wrote: # My 190D is on it's third pair of tie rods. The front end design seems to be a # weak spot. I don't bother replacing the ends, as the assemblies are cheap and # it's safer to replace the lot. That will certainly cure your wandering. If # the tie rod ends are sloppy, it would also explain your shimmy. Once the tie # rods are replaced, you'll need a wheel alignment. # # I've been buying a lot of Mercedes parts from www.rockauto.com, including tie # rod ends. The current tie rods are cheapo Karlyn, and they cost about $30 for # both sides, complete! There are no bushings involved, what you see is a dust # boot. Just undo the nuts and use a pickle fork to pop the old tie rod ends # out of the sockets. Bolt the new ones in, and you're done, except for # alignment. The only complication will come if the thread is very rusty, in # which case you'll have to use some creative persuasion. The center link seems # more durable than the tie rods. # # You should be sure to check your ball joints when you replace the tie rods. # # Mike Frank # # At 09:58 PM 10/27/2007, Scott Haaland wrote: # >So, my 1985 190D 2.2L is experiencing two major problems, and I wanted to # >get some advice before I order parts: # > # >1) It started wandering as I drive down the road.slow speeds and fast # >speeds alike..it doesn't really pull one way or the other, but squirms back # >and forth in a straight line (if that makes any sense) # > # > # >2) A very annoying vibration/shimmy at high speeds.pretty much # >anything over 60 mph, and anything over 80mph makes it feel like the car is # >going to fall to pieces. # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:25:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] biodiesel sounds like biodiesel has become viable... 3.65 -vs- 3.39 ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 28 Oct 2007, Paul Masterson wrote: # b20 in ballard at safeway (with discount) # # 3.39 gallon. # # # # # # # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # # To: "Paul Masterson" # Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:06 PM # Subject: Re: [db] best chase scene ever # # # > interesting... he never smoked? # > # > I kind of figured that there had to be cases of # > non-smokers # > with heart disease, so when that doctor # > friend said that his heart surgeon friend had # > told him # > that he had never done open heart on a # > non-smoker I really # > wondered about that... I know there are people # > with cholesterol # > issues that cause plaque as well... # > # > I wonder if they keep stats related to heart # > surgery... variables # > of interest would be gender, age, # > smoke/non-smoke, weight and also # > stress (how does one quantify that???) # > # > it's interesting how they keep lowering the # > numbers, I don't # > think it's for health reasons as much as it is # > to sell # > more drugs... call me skeptical... # > # > I need to study for the final exam... and it's # > not on health... or # > mercedes Diesels... :) # > # > btw, tanked up today... $3.569/gallon, but did # > get 28 mpg in town... # > have been trying to keep my toes out of the # > injection pump... :) # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** # > http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > On Sat, 27 Oct 2007, Paul Masterson wrote: # > # > # # > # > have a friend that just had heart surgery, # > # > asked him if he ever smoked, he had... # > # > I've heard from a few doctors that # > # > non-smokers # > # > don't have open heart surgery... guess # > # > smoking causes large amounts of deposits... # > # # > # Just to add a data point, my non smoking # > # friend Ron had # > # a quad bypass two summers ago, he was 41. # > # # > #He had been trying to get his cholesterol down # > #for a few years before, # > no # > # more pizza, pills etc, just couldn't get it # > down. His Dr. said that genetics # > # plays a pretty large # > # role. # > # # > # Paul # > # # > # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2572 **********************************