From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Oct 30 14:31:22 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, October 30 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2575 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output (fwd) Re: [db] UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output (fwd) Re: [db] best chase scene ever Re: Diesel...vettes... was Re: [db] best chase scene ever Re: Diesel...vettes... was Re: [db] best chase scene ever Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:27:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output (fwd) doesn't this just beat all? you try to go green, and some human being will raise an issue... we need to increase our funding in space travel, because unless we (that's human beings) leave this planet, we'll never make some of these people happy... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sent from Express News UNITED NATIONS - A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry. Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations' independent expert on the right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a growing "catastrophe" for the poor. Scientific research is progressing very quickly, he said, "and in five years it will be possible to make biofuel and biodiesel from agricultural waste" rather than wheat, corn, sugar cane and other food crops. Using biofuel instead of gasoline in cars is generally considered to cut carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to global warming, although some scientists say greenhouse gases released during the production of biofuel could offset those gains. The use of crops for biofuel has being pursued especially in Brazil and the United States. Last March, President Bush and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signed an agreement committing their countries to boosting ethanol production. They said increasing use of alternative fuels would lead to more jobs, a cleaner environment and greater independence from the whims of the oil market. Ziegler called their motives legitimate, but said that "the effect of transforming hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of maize, of wheat, of beans, of palm oil, into agricultural fuel is absolutely catastrophic for the hungry people." The world price of wheat doubled in one year and the price of corn quadrupled, leaving poor countries, especially in Africa, unable to pay for the imported food needed to feed their people, he said. And poor people in those countries are unable to pay the soaring prices for the food that does come in, he added. "So it's a crime against humanity" to devote agricultural land to biofuel production, Ziegler said a news conference. "What has to be stopped is ... the growing catastrophe of the massacre (by) hunger in the world," he said. As an example, he said, it takes 510 pounds of corn to produce 13 gallons of ethanol. That much corn could feed a child in Zambia or Mexico for a year, he said. Benjamin Chang, a spokesman for the U.S. mission to the United Nations, said the Bush administration didn't consider biofuel development a threat to the poor. "It's clear we have a commitment to the development of biofuels," he said. "It's also clear that we are committed to combatting poverty and supporting economic development around the world as the leading contributor of overseas development assistance in the world." Ziegler, a sociology professor at the University of Geneva and the University of the Sorbonne in Paris, presented a report Thursday to the U.N. General Assembly's human rights committee saying a five-year moratorium on biofuel production would allow time for new technologies for using agricultural byproducts instead of food itself. Researchers are looking at crop residues such as corn cobs, rice husks and banana leaves, he said. "The cultivation of Jatropha Curcas, a shrub that produces large oil-bearing seeds, appears to offer a good solution as it can be grown in arid lands that are not normally suitable for food crops," he said. By EDITH M. LEDERER Associated Press Writer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:39:47 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: [db] UN Expert Seeks to Halt Biofuel Output (fwd) It's a valid point that I've read about before. If farmers either switch their crops or switch who they sell to, without cultivating more land, it could very easily be the case that input for biofuel is taken directly away from crops for human consumption. It may produce higher income for those farmers, but reduce the overall food supply. If instead the input for biofuel is either what was previously considered wasted byproduct, or if it's done by increasing the agricultural output, THEN the tradeoff has less impact. Doesn't the US still pay some farmers to limit production of certain crops? Unless that's needed simply to allow the soil to remain viable, I say just drop those subsidies and encourage farmers to cultivate that otherwise unused land for biofuel inputs. While biofuels clearly can alleviate some (but not all) of our reliance on oil, it's still not clear to me if they produce any net benefit from an environmental perspective. Growing the crops and processing them into biofuel has an environmental cost. Is that more or less than the environmental savings produced by burning biofuel instead of conventional gasoline? Difficult and complicated issues with no straightforward answers. We can only hope to elect leaders that will gather and objectively assess as much valid input as possible, and then make thoughtful and reasonable policies. It's just too bad that there's no way to remove blatant politics. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 89 300CE, 228K On 10/30/07, john wrote: > doesn't this just beat all? > > you try to go green, and some human being will raise an issue... > > we need to increase our funding in space travel, because unless we > (that's human beings) leave this planet, we'll never make some of > these people happy... :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > > Sent from Express News > UNITED NATIONS - A U.N. expert on Friday called the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity," saying it is creating food shortages and price jumps that cause millions of poor people to go hungry. > > Jean Ziegler, who has been the United Nations' independent expert on the right to food since the position was established in 2000, called for a five-year moratorium on biofuel production to halt what he called a growing "catastrophe" for the poor. > > Scientific research is progressing very quickly, he said, "and in five years it will be possible to make biofuel and biodiesel from agricultural waste" rather than wheat, corn, sugar cane and other food crops. > > Using biofuel instead of gasoline in cars is generally considered to cut carbon dioxide emissions, which contribute to global warming, although some scientists say greenhouse gases released during the production of biofuel could offset those gains. > > The use of crops for biofuel has being pursued especially in Brazil and the United States. > > Last March, President Bush and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signed an agreement committing their countries to boosting ethanol production. They said increasing use of alternative fuels would lead to more jobs, a cleaner environment and greater independence from the whims of the oil market. > > Ziegler called their motives legitimate, but said that "the effect of transforming hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tons of maize, of wheat, of beans, of palm oil, into agricultural fuel is absolutely catastrophic for the hungry people." > > The world price of wheat doubled in one year and the price of corn quadrupled, leaving poor countries, especially in Africa, unable to pay for the imported food needed to feed their people, he said. And poor people in those countries are unable to pay the soaring prices for the food that does come in, he added. > > "So it's a crime against humanity" to devote agricultural land to biofuel production, Ziegler said a news conference. "What has to be stopped is ... the growing catastrophe of the massacre (by) hunger in the world," he said. > > As an example, he said, it takes 510 pounds of corn to produce 13 gallons of ethanol. That much corn could feed a child in Zambia or Mexico for a year, he said. > > Benjamin Chang, a spokesman for the U.S. mission to the United Nations, said the Bush administration didn't consider biofuel development a threat to the poor. > > "It's clear we have a commitment to the development of biofuels," he said. "It's also clear that we are committed to combatting poverty and supporting economic development around the world as the leading contributor of overseas development assistance in the world." > > Ziegler, a sociology professor at the University of Geneva and the University of the Sorbonne in Paris, presented a report Thursday to the U.N. General Assembly's human rights committee saying a five-year moratorium on biofuel production would allow time for new technologies for using agricultural byproducts instead of food itself. > > Researchers are looking at crop residues such as corn cobs, rice husks and banana leaves, he said. "The cultivation of Jatropha Curcas, a shrub that produces large oil-bearing seeds, appears to offer a good solution as it can be grown in arid lands that are not normally suitable for food crops," he said. > > > > By EDITH M. LEDERER Associated Press Writer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] best chase scene ever > Besides, I'd rather not get old and decrepit; I'd > rather die a little sooner than be trapped in a > nearly useless body for the last 10-20 years of my > life. You're absolutely correct Jason, none of us gets out of this world alive... However, if you read that last paragraph you typed, you should realize that that's pretty much EXACTLY of a smoker lives out the end of their life... My mother included... :( Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:05:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: Diesel...vettes... was Re: [db] best chase scene ever I don't know why but I have a REAL hard time trusting anyone who sells something on eBay with that many spelling and grammar mistakes. I'm not a perfect speller and will make mistakes in e-mails due to typing or thinking too fast but I'd proof read anything that would be posted for sale. And this guy owns TWO companies? I'm suspicious.... Jim - --- john wrote: > found one of those Diesel..vettes on ebay... jason, > not too far from you... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250180824332&indexURL=1#ebayphotohosting > > :) > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** > http://wagoneers.com ** > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: > > # mine was the '88 version of this (in white ;-) ) > : > # > http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/6/6f/SEATIbizaMk1SXI.jpg > # "The Ibiza Mk I (codenamed 021A) was based on the > Fiat > # 127/Ritmo/Regata, and used a powertrain which had > been developed in > # collaboration with Porsche. This was the first > SEAT which did not > # share any external body panels with any Fiat > model, having been > # designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro. This version, > while it established the > # now classic Ibiza shape, was advertised as having > "Italian styling and > # German engines"." > # > # Not quite a '66 Mustang... but fun .. ;-) > # > # On Oct 27, 2007 1:28 PM, Allen Zylstra > wrote: > # > My first car was an 82 Diesel Chevette. Wish I > had it back now. Cost less > # > than your bike back in > 93.http://www.dieselchevettes.com/ > # > Allen > # > > Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:02:40 +0100> From: > srigley-at-gmail.com> To: > # > xj-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] best > chase scene ever> CC: > # > fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; > WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com> > LOL > # > > # > brilliant!!> > > You had cars like that in high > school??> I had something like > # > this:> > http://www.mtbdiary.co.uk/images/fullsize/fire_mountain.jpg> > > On > # > 10/26/07, john wrote:> > > imagine yourself in High > # > School,> > your best friend owns a '66 > Charger,> > you own a '68 Mustang... > # > you go> > to the movies and watch that on the> > > big screen...> >> > the hair > # > on my arm still stands up every time> > I see > that chase scene or hear those > # > engines... :)> >> > My friend and I burned up a > set of tires that> > year... > # > :) man that was fun...> >> > -----> > > # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > don't rust, they mold> > > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> > > > # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > >> > > # > On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote:> >> > > # Amazing how fast that Dark > # > Green Beetle is tho'... always seems to be> > # > able to get ahead of both of > # > them ;-)> > # "and the award for most wheel hop > goes to..."> > #> > # On > # > 10/26/07, john wrote:> > # > > found this while doing some > # > research for a grad school project...> > # > > really... :)> > # >> > # > > # > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36MFh4of6lE> > # > >> > # > -----> > # > > # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > # > > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > don't rust, they mold> > # > > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> > > # > > # > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > # >> > # > > # > # > > _________________________________________________________________ > # > Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star > Shuffle: the word scramble > # > challenge with star power. > # > > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:19:00 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Diesel...vettes... was Re: [db] best chase scene ever Hmmm....I'd probably be in the same situation he is; he's selling it because he's too big for it. I'd be "clown car"ing too, only it'd be my head. Still, neat car. Didn't know they ever made those. J - -----Original Message----- From: john Subj: Diesel...vettes... was Re: [db] best chase scene ever Date: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:14 pm Size: 3K To: diesel-benz list ; xj-list found one of those Diesel..vettes on ebay... jason, not too far from you... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250180824332&indexURL=1#ebayphotohosting :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 30 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote: # mine was the '88 version of this (in white ;-) ) : # http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/6/6f/SEATIbizaMk1SXI.jpg # "The Ibiza Mk I (codenamed 021A) was based on the Fiat # 127/Ritmo/Regata, and used a powertrain which had been developed in # collaboration with Porsche. This was the first SEAT which did not # share any external body panels with any Fiat model, having been # designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro. This version, while it established the # now classic Ibiza shape, was advertised as having "Italian styling and # German engines"." # # Not quite a '66 Mustang... but fun .. ;-) # # On Oct 27, 2007 1:28 PM, Allen Zylstra wrote: # > My first car was an 82 Diesel Chevette. Wish I had it back now. Cost less # > than your bike back in 93.http://www.dieselchevettes.com/ # > Allen # > > Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:02:40 +0100> From: srigley-at-gmail.com> To: # > xj-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] best chase scene ever> CC: # > fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com> > LOL # > # > brilliant!!> > > You had cars like that in high school??> I had something like # > this:> http://www.mtbdiary.co.uk/images/fullsize/fire_mountain.jpg> > On # > 10/26/07, john wrote:> > imagine yourself in High # > School,> > your best friend owns a '66 Charger,> > you own a '68 Mustang... # > you go> > to the movies and watch that on the> > big screen...> >> > the hair # > on my arm still stands up every time> > I see that chase scene or hear those # > engines... :)> >> > My friend and I burned up a set of tires that> > year... # > :) man that was fun...> >> > -----> > # > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> > # > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > # > On Fri, 26 Oct 2007, Stephen Rigley wrote:> >> > # Amazing how fast that Dark # > Green Beetle is tho'... always seems to be> > # able to get ahead of both of # > them ;-)> > # "and the award for most wheel hop goes to..."> > #> > # On # > 10/26/07, john wrote:> > # > found this while doing some # > research for a grad school project...> > # > really... :)> > # >> > # > # > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36MFh4of6lE> > # >> > # > -----> > # > # > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> > # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> > # > # > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > # >> # > > # # > _________________________________________________________________ # > Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble # > challenge with star power. # > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2575 **********************************