From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Nov 20 22:26:30 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 21 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2596 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:59:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again all good questions... have two good batteries, tested by interstate in Everett... in fact I was so distrustful of the battery, even after exhaustive tests... that I bought a new one anyway... still have the old one too. The alternator was kind of repaired... a new one at the dealer is around $400, wholesale $250... thought I'd found one at aurora autowrecking... off of a 300E... didn't match up. So we replaced the regulator in the one I have... it seemed to be ok... took it to a schucks and they tested it... put a new battery in... had interstate also check battery and alternator... life was good for about a week... it's like the battery just isn't fully charged... I get a full glow and most of a crank that almost starts it... toss it on a charger for a few mintues or get a jump and it lights right off... got home, tossed it on the charger and it's drawing over 3Amps... that's after driving it over 10 miles... and sitting with it running for a total of 30 minutes or so. I was thinking there may be something drawing the battery down at night, but I just tested that and it's fine... the fact is this alternator had been rebuilt once before and it hadn't been a very good job... so the alternator is the prime suspect in this crime... meanwhile, have a spare battery and cables in the trunk... one good thing about a Diesel is that once it's started it does NOT need an electrical system at all... the shut off on the Benz is controlled by vacuum... :) on some Diesels the fuel solenoid needs at least 9v to keep it running... which is pretty easy to do. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Jim Blair wrote: # A: I would see what the voltage from the alt is before calling it bad. What's the belt condition? Electrolyte in the battery? # Do you get a click and no go? If the solenoid contact is worn in the starter, then it won't engage if the battery drops below a certain voltage. # Had fun giving the IH flatbed a plug change and "cabin" on the back today. Hope to finish the roof and load my spare parts into it tomorrow. # Did you do a battery test? Voltage should be 12.6 fully charged after sitting all night. It should NOT drop to less than 10 volts cranking. # # # From: john # Subject: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again # # update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every # now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) # # connected the battery charger to positive terminal, # and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after # driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), # disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about # 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to # the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other # battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... # well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, # reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on # the charger dropped to zero.... # # THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance # draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached # over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge # jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is # what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge # went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the # bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... # # reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up # to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still # at over 2A. # # mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then # reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is # that would show there is a discharge... well, that might # have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) # # I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. # wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know # retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but # not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so # stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 # miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to # anyway? :) # # so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper # cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive # call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish # alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at # a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but # it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap # the guts thinking about it now... oh well... # # sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another # vehicle to get to work in... # _________________________________________________________________ # Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live(TM). # http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_M ediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:08:19 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Why is this all sounding so familiar...? Oh, right. I had the same problem driving my 300D back from Chicago. :) (John, I think you may remember that? I had your Prasky in the trunk.) Dead alternator, plus dead alternator warning light, equals dead battery at roadside cheese shop in Edgerton, Wisconsin. After John talked the local (helpful!) non-diesels mechanic through all sorts of checks (at 4:30pm on a Friday) tossed in the largest battery they had, followed by a run to Minneapolis without turning off the engine. And then a reaming at the overpriced dealership there (even for a Mercedes dealership!) to make it back home. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: > > all good questions... > > have two good batteries, tested by interstate in Everett... in fact > I was so distrustful of the battery, even after exhaustive tests... that > I bought a new one anyway... still have the old one too. > > The alternator was kind of repaired... a new one at the dealer is > around $400, wholesale $250... thought I'd found one at aurora > autowrecking... off of a 300E... didn't match up. > > So we replaced the regulator in the one I have... it seemed to > be ok... took it to a schucks and they tested it... put a new > battery in... had interstate also check battery and alternator... > > life was good for about a week... > > it's like the battery just isn't fully charged... I get a full glow > and most of a crank that almost starts it... toss it on a charger > for a few mintues or get a jump and it lights right off... > > got home, tossed it on the charger and it's drawing over 3Amps... > that's after driving it over 10 miles... and sitting with it running > for a total of 30 minutes or so. > > I was thinking there may be something drawing the battery down > at night, but I just tested that and it's fine... the fact is > this alternator had been rebuilt once before and it hadn't been > a very good job... so the alternator is the prime suspect in > this crime... > > meanwhile, have a spare battery and cables in the trunk... one > good thing about a Diesel is that once it's started it does > NOT need an electrical system at all... the shut off on the > Benz is controlled by vacuum... :) > > on some Diesels the fuel solenoid needs at least 9v to keep > it running... which is pretty easy to do. > > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > > # A: I would see what the voltage from the alt is before calling it bad. > What's the belt condition? Electrolyte in the battery? > # Do you get a click and no go? If the solenoid contact is worn in the > starter, then it won't engage if the battery drops below a certain voltage. > # Had fun giving the IH flatbed a plug change and "cabin" on the back today. > Hope to finish the roof and load my spare parts into it tomorrow. > # Did you do a battery test? Voltage should be 12.6 fully charged after > sitting all night. It should NOT drop to less than 10 volts cranking. > # > # > # From: john > # Subject: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again > # > # update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every > # now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) > # > # connected the battery charger to positive terminal, > # and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after > # driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), > # disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about > # 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to > # the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other > # battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... > # well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, > # reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on > # the charger dropped to zero.... > # > # THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance > # draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached > # over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge > # jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is > # what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge > # went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the > # bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... > # > # reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up > # to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still > # at over 2A. > # > # mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then > # reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is > # that would show there is a discharge... well, that might > # have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) > # > # I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. > # wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know > # retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but > # not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so > # stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 > # miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to > # anyway? :) > # > # so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper > # cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive > # call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish > # alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at > # a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but > # it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap > # the guts thinking about it now... oh well... > # > # sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another > # vehicle to get to work in... > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again so, what was the final reaming, I mean answer? was it the alternator or is there some gadget I'm forgetting about? :) Ah yes, Prasky... my uncle found out that it can be ordered on line and he shipped one here for Christmas. :) Haven't heard from Paul K on this, his alternator passed away as well.... not sure if he's up here, been doing a lot of work down in SoCal for his company... This is the first time I couldn't get started at work... but I can make it with a spare battery in the trunk. :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # Why is this all sounding so familiar...? # # Oh, right. I had the same problem driving my 300D # back from Chicago. :) (John, I think you may # remember that? I had your Prasky in the trunk.) # # Dead alternator, plus dead alternator warning light, # equals dead battery at roadside cheese shop in # Edgerton, Wisconsin. After John talked the local # (helpful!) non-diesels mechanic through all sorts of # checks (at 4:30pm on a Friday) tossed in the largest # battery they had, followed by a run to Minneapolis # without turning off the engine. # # And then a reaming at the overpriced dealership # there (even for a Mercedes dealership!) to make it # back home. # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: # > # > all good questions... # > # > have two good batteries, tested by interstate in Everett... in fact # > I was so distrustful of the battery, even after exhaustive tests... that # > I bought a new one anyway... still have the old one too. # > # > The alternator was kind of repaired... a new one at the dealer is # > around $400, wholesale $250... thought I'd found one at aurora # > autowrecking... off of a 300E... didn't match up. # > # > So we replaced the regulator in the one I have... it seemed to # > be ok... took it to a schucks and they tested it... put a new # > battery in... had interstate also check battery and alternator... # > # > life was good for about a week... # > # > it's like the battery just isn't fully charged... I get a full glow # > and most of a crank that almost starts it... toss it on a charger # > for a few mintues or get a jump and it lights right off... # > # > got home, tossed it on the charger and it's drawing over 3Amps... # > that's after driving it over 10 miles... and sitting with it running # > for a total of 30 minutes or so. # > # > I was thinking there may be something drawing the battery down # > at night, but I just tested that and it's fine... the fact is # > this alternator had been rebuilt once before and it hadn't been # > a very good job... so the alternator is the prime suspect in # > this crime... # > # > meanwhile, have a spare battery and cables in the trunk... one # > good thing about a Diesel is that once it's started it does # > NOT need an electrical system at all... the shut off on the # > Benz is controlled by vacuum... :) # > # > on some Diesels the fuel solenoid needs at least 9v to keep # > it running... which is pretty easy to do. # > # > # > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # A: I would see what the voltage from the alt is before calling it bad. # > What's the belt condition? Electrolyte in the battery? # > # Do you get a click and no go? If the solenoid contact is worn in the # > starter, then it won't engage if the battery drops below a certain voltage. # > # Had fun giving the IH flatbed a plug change and "cabin" on the back today. # > Hope to finish the roof and load my spare parts into it tomorrow. # > # Did you do a battery test? Voltage should be 12.6 fully charged after # > sitting all night. It should NOT drop to less than 10 volts cranking. # > # # > # # > # From: john # > # Subject: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again # > # # > # update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every # > # now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) # > # # > # connected the battery charger to positive terminal, # > # and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after # > # driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), # > # disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about # > # 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to # > # the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other # > # battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... # > # well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, # > # reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on # > # the charger dropped to zero.... # > # # > # THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance # > # draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached # > # over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge # > # jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is # > # what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge # > # went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the # > # bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... # > # # > # reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up # > # to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still # > # at over 2A. # > # # > # mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then # > # reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is # > # that would show there is a discharge... well, that might # > # have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) # > # # > # I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. # > # wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know # > # retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but # > # not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so # > # stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 # > # miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to # > # anyway? :) # > # # > # so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper # > # cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive # > # call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish # > # alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at # > # a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but # > # it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap # > # the guts thinking about it now... oh well... # > # # > # sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another # > # vehicle to get to work in... # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:24:50 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Yup. The alternator was the problem (well, and the idiot light, which is apparently part of the circuit, too). Only recently finally took the spare battery out of the trunk. (Actually, maybe should toss it into the 115, since it is doing the 2 mile Park and Ride gig daily...) I looked at the Prasky site, but boy is it expensive to ship! - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: > so, what was the final reaming, I mean answer? > > was it the alternator or is there some gadget I'm > forgetting about? :) > > Ah yes, Prasky... my uncle found out that it can > be ordered on line and he shipped one here for Christmas. :) > > Haven't heard from Paul K on this, his alternator passed away > as well.... not sure if he's up here, been doing a lot > of work down in SoCal for his company... > > This is the first time I couldn't get started at work... but > I can make it with a spare battery in the trunk. :) > > john > > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # Why is this all sounding so familiar...? > # > # Oh, right. I had the same problem driving my 300D > # back from Chicago. :) (John, I think you may > # remember that? I had your Prasky in the trunk.) > # > # Dead alternator, plus dead alternator warning light, > # equals dead battery at roadside cheese shop in > # Edgerton, Wisconsin. After John talked the local > # (helpful!) non-diesels mechanic through all sorts of > # checks (at 4:30pm on a Friday) tossed in the largest > # battery they had, followed by a run to Minneapolis > # without turning off the engine. > # > # And then a reaming at the overpriced dealership > # there (even for a Mercedes dealership!) to make it > # back home. > # > # -bkc > # > # > # On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: > # > > # > all good questions... > # > > # > have two good batteries, tested by interstate in Everett... in fact > # > I was so distrustful of the battery, even after exhaustive tests... that > # > I bought a new one anyway... still have the old one too. > # > > # > The alternator was kind of repaired... a new one at the dealer is > # > around $400, wholesale $250... thought I'd found one at aurora > # > autowrecking... off of a 300E... didn't match up. > # > > # > So we replaced the regulator in the one I have... it seemed to > # > be ok... took it to a schucks and they tested it... put a new > # > battery in... had interstate also check battery and alternator... > # > > # > life was good for about a week... > # > > # > it's like the battery just isn't fully charged... I get a full glow > # > and most of a crank that almost starts it... toss it on a charger > # > for a few mintues or get a jump and it lights right off... > # > > # > got home, tossed it on the charger and it's drawing over 3Amps... > # > that's after driving it over 10 miles... and sitting with it running > # > for a total of 30 minutes or so. > # > > # > I was thinking there may be something drawing the battery down > # > at night, but I just tested that and it's fine... the fact is > # > this alternator had been rebuilt once before and it hadn't been > # > a very good job... so the alternator is the prime suspect in > # > this crime... > # > > # > meanwhile, have a spare battery and cables in the trunk... one > # > good thing about a Diesel is that once it's started it does > # > NOT need an electrical system at all... the shut off on the > # > Benz is controlled by vacuum... :) > # > > # > on some Diesels the fuel solenoid needs at least 9v to keep > # > it running... which is pretty easy to do. > # > > # > > # > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > # > > # > # A: I would see what the voltage from the alt is before calling it bad. > # > What's the belt condition? Electrolyte in the battery? > # > # Do you get a click and no go? If the solenoid contact is worn in the > # > starter, then it won't engage if the battery drops below a certain voltage. > # > # Had fun giving the IH flatbed a plug change and "cabin" on the back today. > # > Hope to finish the roof and load my spare parts into it tomorrow. > # > # Did you do a battery test? Voltage should be 12.6 fully charged after > # > sitting all night. It should NOT drop to less than 10 volts cranking. > # > # > # > # > # > # From: john > # > # Subject: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again > # > # > # > # update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every > # > # now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) > # > # > # > # connected the battery charger to positive terminal, > # > # and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after > # > # driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), > # > # disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about > # > # 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to > # > # the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other > # > # battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... > # > # well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, > # > # reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on > # > # the charger dropped to zero.... > # > # > # > # THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance > # > # draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached > # > # over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge > # > # jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is > # > # what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge > # > # went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the > # > # bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... > # > # > # > # reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up > # > # to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still > # > # at over 2A. > # > # > # > # mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then > # > # reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is > # > # that would show there is a discharge... well, that might > # > # have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) > # > # > # > # I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. > # > # wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know > # > # retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but > # > # not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so > # > # stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 > # > # miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to > # > # anyway? :) > # > # > # > # so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper > # > # cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive > # > # call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish > # > # alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at > # > # a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but > # > # it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap > # > # the guts thinking about it now... oh well... > # > # > # > # sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another > # > # vehicle to get to work in... > # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2596 **********************************