From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Nov 21 12:18:17 2007 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, November 21 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2597 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Re: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again Re: [db] starting issues again [db] alternator and other whining parts Re: [db] starting issues again [db] 300GD forces fleet repairs... :) RE: [db] starting issues again Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:33:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again I'm pretty sure my idiot light works when I test the lights... jim said the alternator had been hacked up before... I figured he'd have fixed it with his last action... maybe he didn't do it... sometimes his underlings don't always do as good of a job. sure with I had my Grand Wag here, could order the parts and take the benz down for some serious maintenance... the only way things get done correctly it seems is if you do it yourself... homework beckons... later, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # Yup. The alternator was the problem (well, and the # idiot light, which is apparently part of the circuit, # too). # # Only recently finally took the spare battery out of # the trunk. (Actually, maybe should toss it into the # 115, since it is doing the 2 mile Park and Ride gig # daily...) # # I looked at the Prasky site, but boy is it expensive # to ship! # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: # > so, what was the final reaming, I mean answer? # > # > was it the alternator or is there some gadget I'm # > forgetting about? :) # > # > Ah yes, Prasky... my uncle found out that it can # > be ordered on line and he shipped one here for Christmas. :) # > # > Haven't heard from Paul K on this, his alternator passed away # > as well.... not sure if he's up here, been doing a lot # > of work down in SoCal for his company... # > # > This is the first time I couldn't get started at work... but # > I can make it with a spare battery in the trunk. :) # > # > john # > # > # > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # > # > # Why is this all sounding so familiar...? # > # # > # Oh, right. I had the same problem driving my 300D # > # back from Chicago. :) (John, I think you may # > # remember that? I had your Prasky in the trunk.) # > # # > # Dead alternator, plus dead alternator warning light, # > # equals dead battery at roadside cheese shop in # > # Edgerton, Wisconsin. After John talked the local # > # (helpful!) non-diesels mechanic through all sorts of # > # checks (at 4:30pm on a Friday) tossed in the largest # > # battery they had, followed by a run to Minneapolis # > # without turning off the engine. # > # # > # And then a reaming at the overpriced dealership # > # there (even for a Mercedes dealership!) to make it # > # back home. # > # # > # -bkc # > # # > # # > # On Tue Nov 20, 2007, John Meister wrote: # > # > # > # > all good questions... # > # > # > # > have two good batteries, tested by interstate in Everett... in fact # > # > I was so distrustful of the battery, even after exhaustive tests... that # > # > I bought a new one anyway... still have the old one too. # > # > # > # > The alternator was kind of repaired... a new one at the dealer is # > # > around $400, wholesale $250... thought I'd found one at aurora # > # > autowrecking... off of a 300E... didn't match up. # > # > # > # > So we replaced the regulator in the one I have... it seemed to # > # > be ok... took it to a schucks and they tested it... put a new # > # > battery in... had interstate also check battery and alternator... # > # > # > # > life was good for about a week... # > # > # > # > it's like the battery just isn't fully charged... I get a full glow # > # > and most of a crank that almost starts it... toss it on a charger # > # > for a few mintues or get a jump and it lights right off... # > # > # > # > got home, tossed it on the charger and it's drawing over 3Amps... # > # > that's after driving it over 10 miles... and sitting with it running # > # > for a total of 30 minutes or so. # > # > # > # > I was thinking there may be something drawing the battery down # > # > at night, but I just tested that and it's fine... the fact is # > # > this alternator had been rebuilt once before and it hadn't been # > # > a very good job... so the alternator is the prime suspect in # > # > this crime... # > # > # > # > meanwhile, have a spare battery and cables in the trunk... one # > # > good thing about a Diesel is that once it's started it does # > # > NOT need an electrical system at all... the shut off on the # > # > Benz is controlled by vacuum... :) # > # > # > # > on some Diesels the fuel solenoid needs at least 9v to keep # > # > it running... which is pretty easy to do. # > # > # > # > # > # > On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # > # > # A: I would see what the voltage from the alt is before calling it bad. # > # > What's the belt condition? Electrolyte in the battery? # > # > # Do you get a click and no go? If the solenoid contact is worn in the # > # > starter, then it won't engage if the battery drops below a certain voltage. # > # > # Had fun giving the IH flatbed a plug change and "cabin" on the back today. # > # > Hope to finish the roof and load my spare parts into it tomorrow. # > # > # Did you do a battery test? Voltage should be 12.6 fully charged after # > # > sitting all night. It should NOT drop to less than 10 volts cranking. # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # From: john # > # > # Subject: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again # > # > # # > # > # update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every # > # > # now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) # > # > # # > # > # connected the battery charger to positive terminal, # > # > # and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after # > # > # driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), # > # > # disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about # > # > # 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to # > # > # the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other # > # > # battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... # > # > # well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, # > # > # reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on # > # > # the charger dropped to zero.... # > # > # # > # > # THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance # > # > # draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached # > # > # over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge # > # > # jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is # > # > # what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge # > # > # went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the # > # > # bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... # > # > # # > # > # reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up # > # > # to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still # > # > # at over 2A. # > # > # # > # > # mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then # > # > # reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is # > # > # that would show there is a discharge... well, that might # > # > # have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) # > # > # # > # > # I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. # > # > # wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know # > # > # retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but # > # > # not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so # > # > # stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 # > # > # miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to # > # > # anyway? :) # > # > # # > # > # so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper # > # > # cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive # > # > # call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish # > # > # alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at # > # > # a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but # > # > # it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap # > # > # the guts thinking about it now... oh well... # > # > # # > # > # sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another # > # > # vehicle to get to work in... # > # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:19:50 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Brown Subject: Re: Re: xj: Re: [db] starting issues again How many volts is the alternator putting out, at idle and at 1500 rpm? Thats another indicator of whether it is working, or not. Paul H. Brown Fairfax, Virginia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:59:29 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] starting issues again Wonder what changed between 87 and 91. My 87 300D had an alternator from an ML 500 on it. Don't think there was any real trick to getting it in there either... On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 08:32:37PM -0800, john wrote: > update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every > now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) > > connected the battery charger to positive terminal, > and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after > driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), > disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about > 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to > the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other > battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... > well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, > reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on > the charger dropped to zero.... > > THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance > draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached > over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge > jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is > what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge > went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the > bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... > > reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up > to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still > at over 2A. > > mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then > reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is > that would show there is a discharge... well, that might > have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) > > I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. > wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know > retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but > not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so > stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 > miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to > anyway? :) > > so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper > cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive > call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish > alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at > a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but > it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap > the guts thinking about it now... oh well... > > sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another > vehicle to get to work in... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] alternator and other whining parts it was marginal when tested right after the voltage regulator replacement. I'll stop by a schucks on the way home to get some other parts and ask them to test it for me again... the fact that the battery took a charge all night tells me it was pretty well drained... this battery (new) is slightly better than the other one, which was also still relatively new and has passed all the tests, as this one just loses interest in starting but doesn't go completely flat like the other one... with a digital tuner it's nice that it doesn't go flat... don't have to reprogram the silly thing... :) just ordered a used alternator and a/c compressor from a wrecking yard in Utah that has the exact same model and year... parts should be here by Monday. need to check on a new idler pulley/tensioner (or did I replace that with the water pump three years ago???) and a new belt... hopefully replacing both alternator and a/c setup will stop that noise I've been hearing from the front... kind of whining noise... the mechanic also said that a prior rebuild on this alternator wasn't done very well... I kind of wish he'd just condemned it back then instead of patching it together... I really don't have time to mess around with stuff like this any more. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Paul Brown wrote: # How many volts is the alternator putting out, at idle and at 1500 rpm? Thats another indicator of whether it is working, or not. # # Paul H. Brown # Fairfax, Virginia # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] starting issues again I think that the 2.5L TD has a few differences over other models... supposedly parts from a 300E of the same vintage should have worked, but didn't... parts are on their way... also swapping out the a/c compressor/clutch setup at the same time... mine keeps leaking down... hoping that one or the other is what has been making that noise... if nothing else my battery and a/c will stay charged. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Kevin wrote: # Wonder what changed between 87 and 91. My 87 300D had an alternator from # an ML 500 on it. Don't think there was any real trick to getting it in there # either... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:14:38 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] 300GD forces fleet repairs... :) wow... that '80 300GD just jumped to over 15K! sitting here with vehicles that need repair I was thinking of making the case to go for it... burst my bubble pretty quick... :) 1980 Mercedes-Benz : G-Class DIESEL Item number: 150181926035 so, at this point, I'm going to fix up my '91 300D; ordered a used alternator and a/c compressor... may get the seats updated with some foam to provide good back support, around $300 or so... need to lube the speedo cable correctly... then it should be golden... seems quite happy on the biodiesel, sure smells nice. :) no XJ in my future. reserve the right to do a Benz Diesel conversion. ;) my WJ needs the transfer case chain replaced... suspect the heater core may be going, smell antifreeze when it's cold, but no leaks, no loss... weird. still waiting on my '91 Grand Wagoneer... have left messages, email, even snail mail... it's quite depressing/frustrating. It's so close to being done. I'm so busy with work and school that I can't afford to take the 8 hrs to go down there and find out what's going on. It really can't take that much more to finish up... Anyway, hope you all have a great Thanksgiving, we all have a LOT to be thankful for! Great friends like all on these lists for instance... the fact that we have such "problems" like having to fix vehicles and such... we are so fortunate... we are all blessed. thanx all! john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com * ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:16:35 -0800 From: "Scott Haaland" Subject: RE: [db] starting issues again John, I just had a similar problem on my chevy suburban 6.5L Turbo Diesel last week...I pulled the alternator, sure that was the problem, took it to Kragen and had it bench tested...turned out to be fine. I reinstalled, and now it's working. Either the wire on the alternator was slightly corroded (I sanded it prior to re-install, or the negative battery terminal wires were slightly corroded and re-installing them fixed it. Moral of the story, check all your wires and connectors...make sure they are clean as a whistle. Also, just double check all the ground straps....my 1980 300SD lost the bolt on one end of the transmission ground strap and was needing a battery charger every night until I found it....thanks to your advice so many years ago when I first found this db list... I do happen to have a bosch alternator in the garage somewhere that I ordered for the 1985 190D. Turned out to be the battery that time, so I just decided to keep the alternator as a spare. I don't know if it's compatible with the 91 300D....but I could be convinced to part with it...got it from Rusty probably 1.5 years ago....I remember it was expensive... R, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:59 AM To: john Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] starting issues again Wonder what changed between 87 and 91. My 87 300D had an alternator from an ML 500 on it. Don't think there was any real trick to getting it in there either... On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 08:32:37PM -0800, john wrote: > update. (alternator/battery issue '91 300D... every > now and then it doesn't start... charge it, it starts) > > connected the battery charger to positive terminal, > and to car chassis, charging at about 3Amps (after > driving home! this means the battery was NOT charged), > disconnected the battery, amp gauge dropped down to about > 500 mA... wait, I have a Jeep stereo connected to > the OTHER battery (using jumper cables from the other > battery to my benz...) (maybe I should take a picture... > well, maybe I shouldn't... ;) and it was playing, > reached over, turned it off, and the amp gauge on > the charger dropped to zero.... > > THIS INDICATES there is nothing of any significance > draining my battery... to prove my theory I reached > over and opened the passenger door... the amp gauge > jumped up a bit, not significantly... which is > what one would expect. closed the door. amp gauge > went down to zero. turned the car stereo on the > bench back on, it jumped up a little bit... > > reconnected the battery, and the guage jumped up > to about 3A. left it charging for about 1.5 hrs, still > at over 2A. > > mechanic suggested I disconnect the battery and then > reconnect tomorrow to see if it starts, his theory is > that would show there is a discharge... well, that might > have worked if the battery was already charged up. :) > > I think I have to buy another alternator... NOT cheap. > wholesale is around $250 bucks, you don't want to know > retail... the 2.5L Turbo Diesel is a superb engine, but > not nearly as common as all the other Benz engines so > stuff like this isn't available... dang, only got 238,000 > miles out of that alternator, what's the world coming to > anyway? :) > > so, I put my other good battery in the trunk with jumper > cables... charging my battery... will make the expensive > call in the morning... anyone got a used 2.5L TD '91 ish > alternator sitting around? They only sell for $65 at > a yard if they have one... got one off of a 300E, but > it didn't fit... I should have had the mechanic swap > the guts thinking about it now... oh well... > > sure wish my Grand Wagoneer were here so I had another > vehicle to get to work in... ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2597 **********************************