From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 8 16:22:56 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, January 9 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2632 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] 300D 2.5 RE: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' [db] 300D 2.5 turbo fuel consumption Re: [db] 300D 2.5 turbo fuel consumption Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Re: xj: RE: [db] heating fuel for Omega Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:10:53 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] 300D 2.5 the person that claimed 44mpg had a stick... and she may have had the 2.5L TD in it... was thinking about that on the way in... a 190D with a 2.5L TD would be a total kick in the pants... the 2.2L in Seattle traffic was miserable... it would take so long to get wound up... if we stayed int he 30-40mph range it was pretty peppy... anything below that and my old Ford tractor would be able to pass it. :) but still, the 124 chassis is way more refined and the quality is better too... but for a nice little city / commuter runabout the 201 with a 2.5L TD would be pretty trick. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Scott Haaland wrote: # The best I've ever gotten in the 190D is 35.5 mpg, and that was only once on # a Sacramento to Fresno to Sacramento run (flat, flat, flat). I've # consistently gotten 33 mpg on the road and 29-30 around town. I'm convinced # that a manual tranny would make the biggest difference. I've always been # annoyed at how "wound up" it gets when going 70 mph or more with my # automatic tranny. It sounds like the rubber band is going to break if you # dare go over 80. I wish they would have put an overdrive on the automatic # tranny, and lowered the rpm by 500-800....right now, 85mph is top speed and # it sounds like the engine is going to explode at 4500 rpm.... # # Speaking of wound up, I've been trying to troubleshoot a shimmy that # developed a couple of months ago, which turns into a terrible shaking # vibration over 60 mph. I've pretty much relegated the 190D to around town # only, until I can solve it. I've replaced the tie-rods and the driver's # side ball joint. Planning to replace the passenger side ball joint this # weekend, then put new tires on, get an alignment, and cross my fingers. # Other suspected parts are the control arm bushings, or some other steering # control bushings (center link or middle tie rod, etc...). I'm actually # hoping that it's only a tire out of balance at this point, and that new # tires and balancing will fix it now.... # # I had no idea how difficult ball joints can be to change...I finally got the # old one out by leaving the ball joint press on it under pressure and # spraying penetrating oil around the edge, and let it sit for an hour. Came # out, gave it a whack with the hammer, and it finally budged. I thought I'd # have to take the control arm off and take it to a machine shop for while # there.... # # Cheers, # Scott # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On # Behalf Of john # Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:12 AM # To: Scott Haaland # Cc: 'DB List' # Subject: RE: [db] 300D 2.5 # # I should have picked him up in a Jeep... ;) that was pretty cruel. :) # (had I dropped insurance on it??? that must have been why, either that # or I was just showing off... ;) # # the 190d is more economical and more nimble in tight spaces, and # they look pretty cool... # # I was getting 34 mpg in town... with stop-n-go only seeing 26 to 28 with # the 300d. If it's economy you're really concerned about the 190D is # the winner... I've talked to folks that got well into the 40's with # their 190d... best ever for my 124 is 39.75 mpg. (same run I got 21.04 mpg # with my 4.7L V8 Grand Cherokee)... for some reason the run from Seattle # to Spokane is my best economy run, not sure why... spokane is higher # than seattle and I have to go through three passes to get there... weird... # # # anyway, the 201 chassis is ok, but the 124 series is the best I've had # yet... # I prefer it over the 123 or 126. I guess they call these the e-series... # # I'm hooked... other than the climate control design, they're splendid, # but the 124 and 201 share that design, and both are better than the 123 of # old... # # john # # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # there's a solution for every problem; # problem is can we afford the solution? # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Scott Haaland wrote: # # # Mike, # # # # Go for it. That's what John did when he dumped the 190D on me :) Can # you # # believe he picked me up from the airport in the 300D, drove me home, then # # said, "there's the 190D". You have to admit, that was pretty cruel!! # The # # 300D is a dream ride compared to the 190D. If I could find a '91 300D # and # # had any money, I'd switch in a heartbeat. Don't get me wrong, I love the # # 190D, it's just in a different class (lower) than the 300D. # # # # Pros: TURBO Power, larger softer ride, quieter, equivalent mpg # # Cons: Maybe not quite so nimble in parking lots and for u-turns?? Hard # to # # beat that in a 190D... # # # # It's a no brainer if you can afford it. # # # # Scott # # 1985 190D # # # # -----Original Message----- # # From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] # On # # Behalf Of Edward Pomeroy # # Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 4:29 AM # # To: Mike Frank # # Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # # Subject: Re: [db] 300D 2.5 # # # # Same Benz I have, gets 30 to 32 in mixed city highway driving. Hit as # # high as 35 all highway and mine has injection pump issues. I am told # # you can eke 40 on the highway if all things are right with the engine. # # # # Edward # # # # Mike Frank wrote: # # # # > Does anyone know what sort of fuel economy can be expected of a '91 # # > 300D 2.5? There's one for sale nearby, and I'm tempted to replace the # # > 190D. # # > # # > Mike Frank # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:32:30 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: RE: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' If they can pull this off with market power and no taxpayer funding, I'd say it's a good idea.......for the economy, not the environment. IF (and I believe it is a BIG if) it turns out that this is somehow helpful to the environment, so be it. But at risk of sounding cliched and slightly rude, this time, really, "It's the economy, stupid!" I especially like the bit about the great leader. Almost nobody seems to understand that in the U.S.S.A. anymore; all they know is what the government promises to do. (Somehow they overlook the fact that it never does what it promises, and makes everything worse......) OK, I'll get off my soapbox. J - -- Allen Zylstra wrote: Sounds like I could grow about 150 barrels of fuel in my yard. Prices of corn has made it more difficult for livestock raisers. Switchgrass may be another good source. They use sugarcane in Brazil. Allen> From: renaud-at-olgiati-in-paraguay.org> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net; steam_tech-at-yahoogroups.com; NIOT-at-yahoogroups.com; offtopic-at-digest.net> Subject: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent'> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:13:35 -0300> > from BBC News Online> > Producing biofuels from a fast-growing grass delivers vast savings of> carbon dioxide emissions compared with petrol, a large-scale study has> suggested. A team of US researchers also found that switchgrass-derived> ethanol produced 540 percent more energy than was required to manufacture> the fuel.> > One acre (0.4 hectares) of the grassland could, on average, deliver 320> barrels of bioethanol, they added. Their paper appears in the Proceedings> of the National Academy of Sciences.> > The five-year study, involving 10 farms ranging in size from three to nine> hectares, was described as the largest study of its kind by the paper's> authors. Co-author Ken Vogel of the US Department of Agriculture's (USDA)> Agriculture Research Service ... said that all previous energy analyses had> been based on data from research plots and estimated inputs.> > To read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7175397.stm> > Or: http://snipurl.com/1wvu6> > > > > Cheers,> > Ron.> -- > The wicked leader is he who the people despise.> The good leader is he who the people revere.> The great leader is he under who the people say:> 'We did it ourselves.'> -- Venerable Tzu> > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- _________________________________________________________________ Watch ^SCause Effect,^T a show about real people making a real difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:45:36 -0500 From: Wiard Pless Subject: [db] 300D 2.5 turbo fuel consumption EPA figures are as follows: 1986 190D 2.5 non turbo city mpg: 30 highway mpg 34 1991 300D 2.5 turbo 27 33 As we all know actual figures higher but feel consumption will fairly similar for both models. However, fewer parts under the hood of the 190, less to go wrong and more room to wrench on stuff. I bought recently a W124.128 with 118 kmiles. Not as nimble as the 190 but still better than a similar sized front wheel drive car. Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:06:04 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] 300D 2.5 Does anyone know what sort of fuel economy can be expected of a '91 300D 2.5? There's one for sale nearby, and I'm tempted to replace the 190D. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:15:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 300D 2.5 turbo fuel consumption wonder what the mileage is for the 2.5 TD in the 190D. Scott has a 2.2L non-turbo in his... the 2.5L TD auto trans was shared in the 201 and 124... I still think a 190d with that driveline would be a nice little sports sedan... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Wiard Pless wrote: # EPA figures are as follows: # 1986 190D 2.5 non turbo city mpg: 30 highway mpg 34 # 1991 300D 2.5 turbo 27 33 # # As we all know actual figures higher but feel consumption will fairly similar # for both models. However, fewer parts under the hood of the 190, less to go # wrong and more room to wrench on stuff. I bought recently a W124.128 with # 118 kmiles. Not as nimble as the 190 but still better than a similar sized # front wheel drive car. # # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:06:04 -0500 # From: Mike Frank # Subject: [db] 300D 2.5 # # Does anyone know what sort of fuel economy can be expected of a '91 300D 2.5? # There's one for sale nearby, and I'm tempted to replace the 190D. # # Mike Frank # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:28:50 -0500 From: "Richard P. Welty" Subject: Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Allen Zylstra wrote: > Sounds like I could grow about 150 barrels of fuel in my yard. Prices of corn > has made it more difficult for livestock raisers. Switchgrass may be another > good source. They use sugarcane in Brazil. > although i'm a farm owner who has benefited from the corn ethanol craze, i've never been persuaded it was the right answer. objectively, grass based solutions look a lot better to me (and switchgrass ethanol isn't exactly news, this study confirms what i've been hearing for a little while now.) richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:52:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: [db] heating fuel for Omega I think this is what my engineering buddy with the '56 willys panel was trying to tell me. ;) I think I forwarded the catalog link he sent me... it's a neat looking little unit with four fittings... two for coolant to run into it, and two where the fuel flows through it... kind of like Jason's idea (http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/) http://www.ejbowman.co.uk/pdf/engine.pdf http://www.ejbowman.co.uk/pdf/hydraulic_oil_coolers.pdf Also see page 265 in: http://www.rdac.com/Pages/catalog/Ecat/Ecat/72.pdf RD-5-11663-0P john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Allen Zylstra wrote: # Inboard/outboard boats use large heat exchangers to cool the engine. I seen # one used a mercedes wvo conversion. # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' how much ground is needed to grow the switchgrass? we're looking at a property with almost 5 acres and most of it's cleared... will it grow in a cool damp climate? if so, how much value is it to raise??? might be enough incentive for us to move. :) can they make biodiesel from it too? john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Richard P. Welty wrote: # Allen Zylstra wrote: # > Sounds like I could grow about 150 barrels of fuel in my yard. Prices of # > corn # > has made it more difficult for livestock raisers. Switchgrass may be # > another # > good source. They use sugarcane in Brazil. # > # although i'm a farm owner who has benefited from the corn ethanol craze, i've # never # been persuaded it was the right answer. objectively, grass based solutions # look a lot better # to me (and switchgrass ethanol isn't exactly news, this study confirms what # i've been # hearing for a little while now.) # # richard # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:14:45 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' Yeah, come to think of it....8^) I've actually known that this was possible for several years. (In fact, I thought of doing exactly that well over a decade ago. I would have been.....11?) It just hasn't caught the attention of the mainstream until recently. Of course, it remains to be seen if it really has yet...... Of course, this could drive the price of hay up......you just can't win with this dang biofuel thing! Any way you look at it, it's interfering with the food supply at some level. Par for the course, I guess....it makes economic sense to start developing renewable energy sources, but we certainly should use oil while we have it, since it is completely non-disruptive to the food supply. Somebody needs to tell the government to quit paying people NOT to grow stuff so there's enough supply to keep the prices in check! (Not to mention that getting paid for NOT doing something is just ever so SLIGHTLY uncapitalistic.......) J - -- "Richard P. Welty" wrote: Allen Zylstra wrote: > Sounds like I could grow about 150 barrels of fuel in my yard. Prices of corn > has made it more difficult for livestock raisers. Switchgrass may be another > good source. They use sugarcane in Brazil. > although i'm a farm owner who has benefited from the corn ethanol craze, i've never been persuaded it was the right answer. objectively, grass based solutions look a lot better to me (and switchgrass ethanol isn't exactly news, this study confirms what i've been hearing for a little while now.) richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:20:38 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Grass Biofuels 'Cut CO2 by 94 Percent' I'd imagine it would grow, but I doubt it would be worth your trouble. Never hurts to ask, though. I don't see bioD coming out of grass, though.....not really much oil in it to speak of. Nice try, though. 8^) J - -- john wrote: how much ground is needed to grow the switchgrass? we're looking at a property with almost 5 acres and most of it's cleared... will it grow in a cool damp climate? if so, how much value is it to raise??? might be enough incentive for us to move. :) can they make biodiesel from it too? john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Richard P. Welty wrote: # Allen Zylstra wrote: # > Sounds like I could grow about 150 barrels of fuel in my yard. Prices of # > corn # > has made it more difficult for livestock raisers. Switchgrass may be # > another # > good source. They use sugarcane in Brazil. # > # although i'm a farm owner who has benefited from the corn ethanol craze, i've # never # been persuaded it was the right answer. objectively, grass based solutions # look a lot better # to me (and switchgrass ethanol isn't exactly news, this study confirms what # i've been # hearing for a little while now.) # # richard # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2632 **********************************