From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 19 18:23:09 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, February 20 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2667 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill [db] Re: the omega project (fwd) Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] more tab increases in WA state??? Re: [db] Re: the omega project (fwd) Re: [db] more tab increases in WA state??? Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:57:34 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill I guess so! Did all their good engineers quit in 1991 or what? J - -- Mike Frank wrote: Looking for a decent '87 Diesel wagon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:02:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] On a lighter note........ no, the 3.5 was the problem, the 3.0 was ok, had head issues if overheated... 3.5 was the oval hole creator... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Really? I thought the 3.5 with the updated rods was better than the 3.0 # (better head, and rod problem solved) # # Not so? # # Even if it is so, I guess that would be a good temporary solution if the motor # died before I had the $9k together for the better-than-new 3.5l # engine........saw one for less than a grand the other day....... # # J # # -- john wrote: # wow. buy it and put an older 3.0L in it... # # those seats look nice, good thing I know how they REALLY feel. ;) # # john # # # ebay id 160209517395 # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:04:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill double that money and you could buy a nice Diesel powered 124 in superb shape... happy shopping, and thanx for sharing... otherwise we might take the same adventure... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 19 Feb 2008, Mike Frank wrote: # My '99 wagon had a check engine light. Since there are no mechanics that are # willing to work on W210's, I had to take it to the Mercedes dealer. Told # them, fix it up, whatever it takes. Here's the list they came back with: # # 1) Two oxygen sensors. Since they were rusted into the cat, a new cat as # well. # 2) Ball joints # 3) A/C leak, installed dye to trace # 4) Leaky diff seals on pinion and stub axles. # 5) Leaking fuel line # # $3500, and a week to get parts from der fatherland. # # Mike Frank # Looking for a decent '87 Diesel wagon # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill must have, my '91 has been surprisingly free of issues... bruce's lower mileage '93 has had it's share of woes... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # I guess so! Did all their good engineers quit in 1991 or what? # # J # # -- Mike Frank wrote: # # Looking for a decent '87 Diesel wagon # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:04:47 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill I have one which is on the rusty side of decent, and a current project, comes with 87 300D parts car with #17 head on running engine. Don't think you'd want to ship either of them, memory serves me you're on the east coast, and I'm on the west coast. On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 07:47:09PM -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > Mike Frank > Looking for a decent '87 Diesel wagon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:05:46 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] On a lighter note........ True, but with a factory rebuilt 3.5, the engine will go the distance. There was some thought that an original 3.5 that got the rods replaced before it ate itself would probably go the distance as well. On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 05:02:58PM -0800, john wrote: > no, the 3.5 was the problem, the 3.0 was ok, had head issues if overheated... > 3.5 was the oval hole creator... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:06:36 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] On a lighter note........ Yes, it was, but that's because the rods MB installed at the factory weren't strong enough to take the brunt of such a powerful engine, and they bent. The updated rods were much stronger, and eliminated that problem completely, and IIRC, the head was less likely to mess up on a 3.5l. That's why I would ultimately like to put a professionally-rebuilt-to-be-closer-to-MB's-specs-than-MB-was-with-updated-ev erything engine to put in it. I've heard that with all the updates, it really is a bestial engine, almost on par with the 3.0l 5-cylinder for durability, and far more powerful. Maybe somebody else knows??? J - -- john wrote: no, the 3.5 was the problem, the 3.0 was ok, had head issues if overheated... 3.5 was the oval hole creator... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Really? I thought the 3.5 with the updated rods was better than the 3.0 # (better head, and rod problem solved) # # Not so? # # Even if it is so, I guess that would be a good temporary solution if the motor # died before I had the $9k together for the better-than-new 3.5l # engine........saw one for less than a grand the other day....... # # J # # -- john wrote: # wow. buy it and put an older 3.0L in it... # # those seats look nice, good thing I know how they REALLY feel. ;) # # john # # # ebay id 160209517395 # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:07:54 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] On a lighter note........ That's what I thought. Thanks Kevin. J - -- Kevin wrote: True, but with a factory rebuilt 3.5, the engine will go the distance. There was some thought that an original 3.5 that got the rods replaced before it ate itself would probably go the distance as well. On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 05:02:58PM -0800, john wrote: > no, the 3.5 was the problem, the 3.0 was ok, had head issues if overheated... > 3.5 was the oval hole creator... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:14:36 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] On a lighter note........ I know how they feel; I already have one. I want another. Guess I'm a glutton for punishment. 8^) J - -- john wrote: wow. buy it and put an older 3.0L in it... those seats look nice, good thing I know how they REALLY feel. ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Did anybody see this the first time? # # -- "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" wrote: # ebay id 160209517395 # # Sounds like the engine is going bad. The body is definitely worth putting an # engine into, so that raises a few questions. # # 1. How many more miles can I probably baby out of that engine before it will # not run reasonably (to give me time to save the nearly $9 that a proper # replacement motor will cost) # # 2. Anything else you'd worry about (besides my sanity, based on previous # posts?) # # J # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:21:58 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Did I forget to mention that it only has 73K miles? Mike Frank At 08:04 PM 2/19/2008, john wrote: >happy shopping, and thanx for sharing... otherwise we might take the >same adventure... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:35:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill you're kidding? wow. see, low mileage cars aren't all they're cracked up to be... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 19 Feb 2008, Mike Frank wrote: # Did I forget to mention that it only has 73K miles? # # Mike Frank # # At 08:04 PM 2/19/2008, john wrote: # >happy shopping, and thanx for sharing... otherwise we might take the same # >adventure... # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:33:40 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill [Gkkk! Acctththk! Erp! Koff koff!] Apparently yours was designed by children in crayon, and drafted by monkeys...... How did they lose so much in 8 years? J - -- Mike Frank wrote: Did I forget to mention that it only has 73K miles? Mike Frank At 08:04 PM 2/19/2008, john wrote: >happy shopping, and thanx for sharing... otherwise we might take the >same adventure... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] Re: the omega project (fwd) pilot input... :) considering a Diesel swap in his plane I guess. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (wife) and I went to see a friend's new baby in Lake Havasu, AZ over the weekend. 465 miles each way. We went down in 2 hrs. 12 mins. and came back in 2 hrs 27 mins. Average speed down was 211 MPH. 190 MPH average on the way home. I burned 60.5 gallons. Let's see, that is 15.4 MPG...in a straight line too. It would be higher if I were to base it on road mileage. So I spent 4.7 hrs traveling at 15.4 MPG. to get there and back. Driving time is 11 hours each way for a total of 22 hours...now how good is the mileage on that 6.2 going to be ? :-) Continental (manufacturer of the engine in Cover Girl...aka, the airplane) announced they will make a diesel aircraft engine to replace their big sixes (520 and 550 cu. in.). Now I just need them to make one to replace my little 360 cu. in. engine. 230 HP would be perfect. Then I can burn JET-A. And we'd probably ante-up the 50 grand to do the conversion if they do make one for ours. A 230 HP diesel with FADEC (full authority digital engine control) should be light years better in reliability and efficiency over the 1930's design 220 HP gas engine installed now. M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:40:39 -0500 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill Where are you located? There have got to be some decent independent shops SOMEWHERE nearby. J.B. At 07:47 PM 2/19/2008, Mike Frank wrote: >My '99 wagon had a check engine light. Since there are no mechanics >that are willing to work on W210's, I had to take it to the Mercedes >dealer. Told them, fix it up, whatever it takes. Here's the list >they came back with: > >1) Two oxygen sensors. Since they were rusted into the cat, a new cat as well. >2) Ball joints >3) A/C leak, installed dye to trace >4) Leaky diff seals on pinion and stub axles. >5) Leaking fuel line > >$3500, and a week to get parts from der fatherland. > >Mike Frank >Looking for a decent '87 Diesel wagon > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: >269.20.8/1287 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 10:55 AM - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.8/1287 - Release Date: 2/19/2008 10:55 AM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:46:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] more tab increases in WA state??? ......not likely to ever happen, thanks > to the government education > of the children. (Which is why the government > educates children.....look it > up. Plank #7, I think, in the 10 planks to > establish communism as set forth by > Karl Marx.) That's why I sent my kids through private college prep high school. I now have three well rounded Liberitarians... :) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:46:50 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Re: the omega project (fwd) Dang......I didn't know airplanes were that fuel-efficient. I thought they got 2-3MPG at best.......flying is looking more and more attractive, considering...... ............oh, but then there's the airports and FAA red tape and such and fees that gobble up small fortunes....... Another flying dream crashes and burns........ Unless I can figure out something really good with T-posts, bedsheets, and a go-kart motor. 8^) J - -- john wrote: pilot input... :) considering a Diesel swap in his plane I guess. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (wife) and I went to see a friend's new baby in Lake Havasu, AZ over the weekend. 465 miles each way. We went down in 2 hrs. 12 mins. and came back in 2 hrs 27 mins. Average speed down was 211 MPH. 190 MPH average on the way home. I burned 60.5 gallons. Let's see, that is 15.4 MPG...in a straight line too. It would be higher if I were to base it on road mileage. So I spent 4.7 hrs traveling at 15.4 MPG. to get there and back. Driving time is 11 hours each way for a total of 22 hours...now how good is the mileage on that 6.2 going to be ? :-) Continental (manufacturer of the engine in Cover Girl...aka, the airplane) announced they will make a diesel aircraft engine to replace their big sixes (520 and 550 cu. in.). Now I just need them to make one to replace my little 360 cu. in. engine. 230 HP would be perfect. Then I can burn JET-A. And we'd probably ante-up the 50 grand to do the conversion if they do make one for ours. A 230 HP diesel with FADEC (full authority digital engine control) should be light years better in reliability and efficiency over the 1930's design 220 HP gas engine installed now. M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:54:43 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] more tab increases in WA state??? Yay! I knew I liked you, Jim! (And yes, rest of the list, me and Jim have met, although briefly.) J - -- Jim Hoffman wrote: ......not likely to ever happen, thanks > to the government education > of the children. (Which is why the government > educates children.....look it > up. Plank #7, I think, in the 10 planks to > establish communism as set forth by > Karl Marx.) That's why I sent my kids through private college prep high school. I now have three well rounded Liberitarians... :) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:11:47 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill I'm in New York, surrounded by specialty shops of all sorts. Doesn't help. Did I ever tell you the story about my starter? I tried to start the car one fine spring day, and nothing happened. So I called Mercedes roadside assistance. They checked out everything quite thoroughly and pronounced the starter dead. I gave some thought to changing it myself, but it was utterly inaccessable, located behind one of the rusty cats and requiring a fender panel to be removed. So I had AAA tow it to a VERY good independent shop. They looked it over, and told me to get it out of their shop, they simply didn't want to attempt the major surgery involved in replacing the starter. Soooo...called roadside assistance and had it towed to the dealer. Fortunately, they discovered that the starter was covered under the extended warranty, as was the cat. but that wasn't the problem. After they replaced all of that, they discovered that was is a computer box that went awry and locked out the starter. I think the total for that job was also north of $3K, but it went to Mercedes so I didn't care. Since then, I've learned that shops shy away from W210's, and so I don't waste time asking. I find that this car is extraordinarily unpleasant to work on. The problems are complex, and often involve more than an usual amount of skinned knuckles. Anything that involves a check engine light is impossible to diagnose without the Mercedes computer modules. So I am dependent on mechanics, which is an unfamiliar position for me. If an independent could slice the cost in half, is it really worthwhile to keep a car that costs thousands to run, and spends about a month each year off the road? Mike Frank At 08:40 PM 2/19/2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: >Where are you located? There have got to be some decent independent >shops SOMEWHERE nearby. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:19:34 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] The Butcher's Bill If it's any consolation, I'm considering offing the 2005 dodge ram with cummins. While it hasn't been anywhere near as bad as your wagon, it's certainly gone through more than its share of repair money, and seems to spend a lot of time parked because I'm mad at it. It's sad when you have this big, beautiful truck sitting in the yard, and you grab the keys to the 20 year old 140 hp chevy just because you don't feel like dealing with the dodge... On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 09:11:47PM -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > I find that this car is extraordinarily unpleasant to work on. The > problems are complex, and often involve more than an usual amount of > skinned knuckles. Anything that involves a check engine light is > impossible to diagnose without the Mercedes computer modules. So I am > dependent on mechanics, which is an unfamiliar position for me. If an > independent could slice the cost in half, is it really worthwhile to > keep a car that costs thousands to run, and spends about a month each > year off the road? > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2667 **********************************