From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 26 11:06:36 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, March 26 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2700 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) [db] Anybody done this? Re: [db] Anybody done this? Re: [db] Anybody done this? [db] Air Force Prod Aids Coal-To-Fuel Plans (fwd) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:08:40 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) Well, also for gassers that only have 70hp in non-turbo trim. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 12:32 PM, john wrote: > the fools... > > turbos are for Diesels... :) > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: > > # They're talking about the Brabus turbo gasser more than they're > > > # talking about a diesel. > # > # Alec > # > # > # On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > So did you get an estimate from them as to when the > # > diesel versions will become available in this new > # > generation? > # > > # > Jim > # > > # > > # > > # > --- Alec Cordova wrote: > # > > # > > Diesel smarts will be the previous model without the > # > > suspension > # > > improvements. The new generation is not available > # > > with diesel in > # > > either the US or Canada yet. Just the 3 cylinder, > # > > 1.0 liter, 70hp > # > > Mitsubishi gasser. > # > > > # > > And similar to M-B's introduction of support for the > # > > G-Wagen several > # > > years ago, the price is now almost half what the > # > > third-parties were > # > > getting. G-Wagen's went from around $150K down to > # > > $75K when they > # > > became available at M-B dealers, and the smarts that > # > > were available > # > > last year were going for around $25K. The new ones > # > > from smart centers > # > > (Penske Group actually has the distributorship for > # > > the US) start just > # > > under $15K. > # > > > # > > Alec > # > > > # > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Jim Hoffman > # > > wrote: > # > > > There was a stealership in FL selling a couple of > # > > > diesel Smarts. I wonder how he got them... > # > > Canada? > # > > > I assume they could be licensed or he wouldn't be > # > > > able to sell them. I just checked eBay again and > # > > > there aren't any right now. Any thoughts on > # > > that? > # > > > Head to Canada and get one? > # > > > > # > > > Jim > # > > > > # > > > > # > > > > # > > > --- john wrote: > # > > > > # > > > > I'm holding out for a Diesel in a SmartCart. > # > > :) > # > > > > > # > > > > I'll put a towbar on the front and tow it > # > > behind my > # > > > > Grand Wagoneer > # > > > > instead of having a spare tire... :) > # > > > > > # > > > > ----- > # > > > > > # > > > > # > > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > # > > don't > # > > > > rust, they mold > # > > > > http://freegift.com ** > # > > > > http://wagoneers.com ** > # > > > > > # > > > > # > > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > > > > # > > > > > # > > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: > # > > > > > # > > > > # Picked up my smart fortwo Saturday before > # > > last. > # > > > > I'm only on my second > # > > > > # tank, and not yet through 400 miles of the > # > > 1,000 > # > > > > mile break-in, but it > # > > > > # looks like I'm already getting mileage in > # > > the > # > > > > high 30s, and I'm > # > > > > # expecting around 40 once the car and I > # > > settle in > # > > > > with each other. > # > > > > # > # > > > > # Roomy for two, reasonable composed and > # > > peppy, > # > > > > with AIR CONDITIONING > # > > > > # THAT WORKS, it looks like I may sell my Benz > # > > > > coupe this week. I posted > # > > > > # it on Craigslist last Wednesday night. Had > # > > one > # > > > > nibble Thursday, but I > # > > > > # don't think he understood what the car was. > # > > Have > # > > > > a live one now, plus > # > > > > # a new nibble last night, so it's a good > # > > thing I > # > > > > emptied and washed the > # > > > > # car Sunday. > # > > > > # > # > > > > # It's a challenging transition after pretty > # > > much > # > > > > 15 straight years in > # > > > > # Benzes (split between an 85 300D and the 89 > # > > > > 300CE), plus three other > # > > > > # Benzes before those (63 190c, 80 240D auto, > # > > 95 > # > > > > C280), but I no longer > # > > > > # trust Benzes newer than about 1994, and I > # > > can't > # > > > > afford a Benz with a > # > > > > # warranty, which would leave me with a W116 > # > > or > # > > > > W126 300SD, both of > # > > > > # which are lovely cars (that teal W116 was > # > > really, > # > > > > really hard to take > # > > > > # a pass on), but both of which are over 20 > # > > years > # > > > > old, with > # > > > > # corresponding demands for attention. > # > > > > # > # > > > > # The only new cars I've bought were an 84 VW > # > > Jetta > # > > > > (it was actually a > # > > > > # demo model), and a 1990 Golf. The Golf > # > > reminded > # > > > > me that new cars were > # > > > > # not the way to go. 18 years later, I'll try > # > > it > # > > > > again. We'll see if > # > > > > # it's just another reminder not to buy new > # > > cars. > # > > > > But it does get lots > # > > > > # of attention. > # > > > > # > # > > > > # BTW, we also replaced my wife's 2000 > # > > Expedition > # > > > > Eddie Bauer 2WD with > # > > > > # an 06 MINI Cooper S. Anybody want an 00 > # > > > > Expedition with 200,000 miles > # > > > > # for around $7,000? > # > > > > http://austin.craigslist.org/car/612104481.html > # > > > > # > # > > > > # And I don't plan to abandon the mailing > # > > lists. > # > > > > These beloved beasts > # > > > > # are in my blood and I hope to never be free > # > > of > # > > > > them. ;-) > # > > > > # And smart is a division of Mercedes, so I > # > > haven't > # > > > > really left the > # > > > > # family. As long as you squint. > # > > > > # > # > > > > # Happy Benzing, > # > > > > # Alec Cordova > # > > > > # Taylor, Texas > # > > > > # 89 300CE, 234K > # > > > > # 08 smart fortwo > # > > > > # > # > > > > # > # > > > > # On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Kevin > # > > > > wrote: > # > > > > # > Just noticed the last two lines... Did I > # > > miss > # > > > > something? > # > > > > # > > # > > > > # > On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 12:54:03AM +0000, > # > > > > jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # > > > > # > > Well, I'm not sure I get it, but it > # > > made me > # > > > > laugh. According to one comment, > # > > > > # > > there is no deeper meaning, so I guess > # > > I got > # > > > > it, then. > # > > > > # > > > # > > > > # > > > Alec > # > > > > # > > > 89 300CE, 234K, for sale, > # > > > > http://austin.craigslist.org/car/612132108.html > # > > > > # > > > 08 smart fortwo, 260 miles > # > > > > # > # > > > > # > > > # > > # > > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:14:45 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) Tell that to the guy with the straight six F-150 that he turboed using the turbo off a 6.5TD - after he was forced to change the pistons and got it back together, he was making 300hp, 575 ft-lbs, and getting 16 mpg in a 4x4 F150. Those were REAR WHEEL dyno figures, and I don't think my 05 cummins can touch that. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:32:40AM -0700, john wrote: > the fools... > > turbos are for Diesels... :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 02:09:37 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: Did I miss something? (was: Re: [db] mark your calendar...) Well, your Cummins probably can toast that if you change the chip, but that's still very impressive. The mess all that power makes in his transmission and differential will be fun, too...... J - -- Kevin wrote: Tell that to the guy with the straight six F-150 that he turboed using the turbo off a 6.5TD - after he was forced to change the pistons and got it back together, he was making 300hp, 575 ft-lbs, and getting 16 mpg in a 4x4 F150. Those were REAR WHEEL dyno figures, and I don't think my 05 cummins can touch that. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:32:40AM -0700, john wrote: > the fools... > > turbos are for Diesels... :) d ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:30:50 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] Anybody done this? Hmmm......actually, this sounds brilliant, using the same concept as LP Gas injection, but with something you make yourself for nothing. I like this idea....... http://superfuelengine.vip-offers.info/?ag=Water4gas&bk=water4gas&m=P&s=ga&gc lid=CIiEh_7sqpICFSgaHgodOHKmMA Has anyone heard or seen anything that says this works? For $44, I might just try it........Sounds like a lot less grief than WVO, and I could stand getting 50MPG in my 300SDL! Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:07:29 -0400 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: [db] Anybody done this? On Wednesday 26 March 2008, my mailbox was graced by a missive from "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" who wrote: > Hmmm......actually, this sounds brilliant, using the same concept as LP Gas > injection, but with something you make yourself for nothing. I like this > idea....... > > http://superfuelengine.vip-offers.info/?ag=Water4gas&bk=water4gas&m=P&s=ga& >gc lid=CIiEh_7sqpICFSgaHgodOHKmMA > > Has anyone heard or seen anything that says this works? For $44, I might > just try it........Sounds like a lot less grief than WVO, and I could stand > getting 50MPG in my 300SDL! If I understand their bumph, you use some power from the car alternator to discociate water into H2 and O2, which later burn in the cylinder releasing energy. I would tend to smell a rodent somewhere... Cheers, Ron. - -- Things will get better despite our efforts to improve them. -- Will Rogers -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:56:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Anybody done this? we'll wait for your report... :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Hmmm......actually, this sounds brilliant, using the same concept as LP Gas # injection, but with something you make yourself for nothing. I like this # idea....... # # http://superfuelengine.vip-offers.info/?ag=Water4gas&bk=water4gas&m=P&s=ga&gclid=CIiEh_7sqpICFSgaHgodOHKmMA # # Has anyone heard or seen anything that says this works? For $44, I might just # try it........Sounds like a lot less grief than WVO, and I could stand getting # 50MPG in my 300SDL! # # Jason # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Air Force Prod Aids Coal-To-Fuel Plans (fwd) forget veggie oil, let's start using coal... :) this nonsense about greenhouse gases will be debunked in time, as other knee jerk junk science has in the past... sure the planet is warming, it has since the last ice age... question we have to ask is was the ice age formed by a catastrophic event or a natural cycle? if a natural cycle then what could man possibly do to stop it? same goes for a catastrophic event. guess we need to figure out a good use for these "greenhouse" gases to appease the foolish. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sent from Express News MALMSTROM AIR FORCE BASE, Mont. - On a wind-swept air base near the Missouri River, the Air Force has launched an ambitious plan to wean itself from foreign oil by turning to a new and unlikely source: coal. The Air Force wants to build at its Malmstrom base in central Montana the first piece of what it hopes will be a nationwide network of facilities that would convert domestic coal into cleaner-burning synthetic fuel. Air Force officials said the plants could help neutralize a national security threat by tapping into the country's abundant coal reserves. And by offering itself as a partner in the Malmstrom plant, the Air Force hopes to prod Wall Street investors - nervous over coal's role in climate change - to sink money into similar plants nationwide. "We're going to be burning fossil fuels for a long time, and there's three times as much coal in the ground as there are oil reserves," said Air Force Assistant Secretary William Anderson. "Guess what? We're going to burn coal." Tempering that vision, analysts say, is the astronomical cost of coal-to-liquids plants. Their high price tag, up to $5 billion apiece, would be hard to justify if oil prices were to drop. In addition, coal has drawn wide opposition on Capitol Hill, where some leading lawmakers reject claims it can be transformed into a clean fuel. Without emissions controls, experts say coal-to-liquids plants could churn out double the greenhouse gases as oil. "We don't want new sources of energy that are going to make the greenhouse gas problem even worse," House Oversight Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said in a recent interview. The Air Force would not finance, construct or operate the coal plant. Instead, it has offered private developers a 700-acre site on the base and a promise that it would be a ready customer as the government's largest fuel consumer. Bids on the project are due in May. Construction is expected to take four years once the Air Force selects a developer. Anderson said the Air Force plans to fuel half its North American fleet with a synthetic-fuel blend by 2016. To do so, it would need 400 million gallons of coal-based fuel annually. With the Air Force paving the way, Anderson said the private sector would follow - from commercial air fleets to long-haul trucking companies. "Because of our size, we can move the market along," he said. "Whether it's (coal-based) diesel that goes into Wal-Mart trucks or jet fuel that goes into our fighters, all that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which is the endgame." Coal producers have been unsuccessful in prior efforts to cultivate such a market. Climate change worries prompted Congress last year to turn back an attempt to mandate the use of coal-based synthetic fuels. The Air Force's involvement comes at a critical time for the industry. Coal's biggest customers, electric utilities, have scrapped at least four dozen proposed coal-fired power plants over rising costs and the uncertainties of climate change. That would change quickly if coal-to-liquids plants gained political and economic traction under the Air Force's plan. "This is a change agent for the entire industry," said John Baardson, CEO of Baard Energy in Vancouver, Wash., which is awaiting permits on a proposed $5 billion coal-based synthetic fuels plant in Ohio. "There would be a number of plants that would be needed just to support (the Air Force's) needs alone." Only about 15 percent of the 25,000 barrels of synthetic fuel that would be produced daily at the Malmstrom plant would be suitable for jet fuel. The remainder would be lower-grade diesel for vehicles, trains or trucks and naphtha, a material used in the chemical industry. That means the Air Force would need at least seven plants of the same size to meet its 2016 goal, said Col. Bobbie "Griff" Griffin, senior assistant to Anderson. Coal producers have their sights set even higher. A 2006 report from the National Coal Council said a fully mature coal-to-liquids industry serving the commercial sector could produce 2.6 million barrels of fuel a day by 2025. Such an industry would more than double the nation's coal production, according to the industry-backed Coal-to-Liquids Coalition. On Wall Street, however, skepticism lingers. "Is it a viable technology? Certainly it is. The challenge seems to be getting the first couple (of plants) done," said industry analyst Gordon Howald with Calyon Securities. "For a company to commit to this and then five years later oil is back at $60 - this becomes the worst idea that ever happened." Only two coal-to-liquids plants are now operating worldwide, all in South Africa. A third is scheduled to come online in China this year, said Corey Henry with the Coal-to-Liquids Coalition. The Air Force is adamant it can advance the technology used in those plants to turn dirty coal into a "green fuel," by capturing the carbon dioxide and other, more toxic emissions produced during manufacturing. However, that would not address emissions from burning the fuel, said Robert Williams, a senior research scientist at Princeton University. To do more than simply break even, the industry must reduce the amount of coal used in the synthetic-fuel blend and supplement it with a fuel derived from plants, Williams said. Air force officials said they were investigating that possibility. In a recent letter to Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Rep. Waxman wrote that a promise to control greenhouse gas emissions from synthetic fuels was not enough. Waxman and the committee's ranking Republican, Virginia's Tom Davis, cited a provision in the energy bill approved by Congress last year that bars federal agencies from entering contracts for synthetic fuels unless they emit the same or fewer greenhouse gases as petroleum. Anderson said the Air Force will meet the law's requirements. "They'd like to have (coal-to-liquids) because of security concerns - a reliable source of power. They're not thinking beyond that one issue," Waxman said. "(Climate change) is also a national security concern." By MATTHEW BROWN Associated Press Writer ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2700 **********************************