From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Apr 20 19:24:45 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 21 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2728 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes [db] How hard would this be to fix? Re: [db] A/C Woes Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:45:10 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes Well, well! Ummm, I sure hope that I don't have that kind of trouble with my 300D! The system isn't totally discharged even now (poke the valve stem, it hisses) so hopefully whatever leaks it has are minor enough that it won't be a big deal. BUT, I did just remember something: my 300D has a 240D radiator and fan shroud in it. They're smaller. It runs a little hotter than these normally do when it's hot outside, so adding the A/C might be trouble. Does anyone have a wrecked 300D with a good radiator and fan shroud in the 76-83 range? (84 they went to a closed system) How much $$ to send it to me in 24523? J - -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon leak out through some failure in the core so I am back to zero. The compressor works fine, the system held for about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with cold air coming through the vents, then the seal or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, managed to open all windows and exit car in short order. So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention check with a real A/C shop before you spend all that money pumping R134 into the system. Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in a line, the steering column has to be removed, as the dash, console and instrument cluster. My local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody interior together and from my experience with an old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this way, if John has experience in dismantling interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to get training! Good luck, Edward jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > UGH! > > I guess this is what I get for trying to use German cars in a decidedly > non-German country. > > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the A/C in her car before it got > really hot. I had stalled on it previously because I thought it was still R-12 > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work I saw a sticker on the > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and I said, AHA! Somebody did the > deed for me! > > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the fittings were still whatever they > were originally. > > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and picked up a handy-dandy > adapter kit that would change R-12 style fittings into R134a-style fittings. I > figured I had about got the system beat. > > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the wheel and make their own > recharging ports! So I have no way to get anything into it! > > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those weird valves! Where can I get > it? > > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on my '77 300D yet. I have it so > that the fan will run in defrost and actually have heat, after replacing the > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an external fuse holder for the blower > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse holder melted out of the > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of having the heat working properly. > Just in time for summer. 8^) > > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on the compressor with a jumper > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch works........fired up the engine, jumped > to that terminal, CLICK Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The > compressor still works! So with a little more fiddling but not a lot more > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. > > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to a charging adapter, 'cuz it > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! > > Not adapting to life well, > > J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:46:18 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon leak out through some failure in the core so I am back to zero. The compressor works fine, the system held for about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with cold air coming through the vents, then the seal or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, managed to open all windows and exit car in short order. So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention check with a real A/C shop before you spend all that money pumping R134 into the system. Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in a line, the steering column has to be removed, as the dash, console and instrument cluster. My local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody interior together and from my experience with an old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this way, if John has experience in dismantling interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to get training! Good luck, Edward jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > UGH! > > I guess this is what I get for trying to use German cars in a decidedly > non-German country. > > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the A/C in her car before it got > really hot. I had stalled on it previously because I thought it was still R-12 > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work I saw a sticker on the > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and I said, AHA! Somebody did the > deed for me! > > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the fittings were still whatever they > were originally. > > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and picked up a handy-dandy > adapter kit that would change R-12 style fittings into R134a-style fittings. I > figured I had about got the system beat. > > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the wheel and make their own > recharging ports! So I have no way to get anything into it! > > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those weird valves! Where can I get > it? > > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on my '77 300D yet. I have it so > that the fan will run in defrost and actually have heat, after replacing the > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an external fuse holder for the blower > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse holder melted out of the > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of having the heat working properly. > Just in time for summer. 8^) > > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on the compressor with a jumper > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch works........fired up the engine, jumped > to that terminal, CLICK Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The > compressor still works! So with a little more fiddling but not a lot more > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. > > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to a charging adapter, 'cuz it > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! > > Not adapting to life well, > > J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes r134 is NOT freon, freon would not bother you like 134 does, it's nasty stuff... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no # A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon # leak out through some failure in the core so I am # back to zero. # # The compressor works fine, the system held for # about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with # cold air coming through the vents, then the seal # or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, # freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, # managed to open all windows and exit car in short # order. # # So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention # check with a real A/C shop before you spend all # that money pumping R134 into the system. # # Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to # replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in # a line, the steering column has to be removed, as # the dash, console and instrument cluster. My # local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, # fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle # that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out # where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody # interior together and from my experience with an # old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points # that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps # the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this # way, if John has experience in dismantling # interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to # get training! # # Good luck, # Edward # # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > UGH! # > # > I guess this is what I get for trying to use # > German cars in a decidedly # > non-German country. # > # > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the # > A/C in her car before it got # > really hot. I had stalled on it previously # > because I thought it was still R-12 # > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work # > I saw a sticker on the # > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and # > I said, AHA! Somebody did the # > deed for me! # > # > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the # > fittings were still whatever they # > were originally. # > # > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and # > picked up a handy-dandy # > adapter kit that would change R-12 style # > fittings into R134a-style fittings. I # > figured I had about got the system beat. # > # > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the # > wheel and make their own # > recharging ports! So I have no way to get # > anything into it! # > # > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those # > weird valves! Where can I get # > it? # > # > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on # > my '77 300D yet. I have it so # > that the fan will run in defrost and actually # > have heat, after replacing the # > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an # > external fuse holder for the blower # > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse # > holder melted out of the # > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of # > having the heat working properly. # > Just in time for summer. 8^) # > # > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on # > the compressor with a jumper # > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch # > works........fired up the engine, jumped # > to that terminal, CLICK # > Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The # > compressor still works! So with a little more # > fiddling but not a lot more # > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. # > # > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to # > a charging adapter, 'cuz it # > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! # > # > Not adapting to life well, # > # > J # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:18:53 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes Oops, yep, it was 134 but out of habit I call all the A/C stuff "freon". How I pine for the old days, so what if a few penguins got suntans? Heh! Edward john wrote: > r134 is NOT freon, freon would not bother > you like 134 does, it's nasty stuff... > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > # Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no > # A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon > # leak out through some failure in the core so I am > # back to zero. > # > # The compressor works fine, the system held for > # about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with > # cold air coming through the vents, then the seal > # or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, > # freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, > # managed to open all windows and exit car in short > # order. > # > # So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention > # check with a real A/C shop before you spend all > # that money pumping R134 into the system. > # > # Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to > # replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in > # a line, the steering column has to be removed, as > # the dash, console and instrument cluster. My > # local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, > # fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle > # that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out > # where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody > # interior together and from my experience with an > # old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points > # that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps > # the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this > # way, if John has experience in dismantling > # interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to > # get training! > # > # Good luck, > # Edward > # > # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # > UGH! > # > > # > I guess this is what I get for trying to use > # > German cars in a decidedly > # > non-German country. > # > > # > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the > # > A/C in her car before it got > # > really hot. I had stalled on it previously > # > because I thought it was still R-12 > # > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work > # > I saw a sticker on the > # > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and > # > I said, AHA! Somebody did the > # > deed for me! > # > > # > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the > # > fittings were still whatever they > # > were originally. > # > > # > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and > # > picked up a handy-dandy > # > adapter kit that would change R-12 style > # > fittings into R134a-style fittings. I > # > figured I had about got the system beat. > # > > # > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the > # > wheel and make their own > # > recharging ports! So I have no way to get > # > anything into it! > # > > # > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those > # > weird valves! Where can I get > # > it? > # > > # > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on > # > my '77 300D yet. I have it so > # > that the fan will run in defrost and actually > # > have heat, after replacing the > # > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an > # > external fuse holder for the blower > # > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse > # > holder melted out of the > # > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of > # > having the heat working properly. > # > Just in time for summer. 8^) > # > > # > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on > # > the compressor with a jumper > # > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch > # > works........fired up the engine, jumped > # > to that terminal, CLICK > # > Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The > # > compressor still works! So with a little more > # > fiddling but not a lot more > # > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. > # > > # > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to > # > a charging adapter, 'cuz it > # > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! > # > > # > Not adapting to life well, > # > > # > J > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:10:46 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: [db] How hard would this be to fix? 'Cuz it might be a good truck under that beat up-ness ebay id 120249261923 For $2500..... J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:13:55 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes Of course, nobody really proved that freon had anything to do with it, and some people thought then and still think that it didn't, but as usual, all the enviros had to do was raise "suspicion" and suddenly the whole world changed what they were doing to make them happy. PITIFUL! J - -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: Oops, yep, it was 134 but out of habit I call all the A/C stuff "freon". How I pine for the old days, so what if a few penguins got suntans? Heh! Edward john wrote: > r134 is NOT freon, freon would not bother > you like 134 does, it's nasty stuff... > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > # Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no > # A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon > # leak out through some failure in the core so I am > # back to zero. > # > # The compressor works fine, the system held for > # about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with > # cold air coming through the vents, then the seal > # or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, > # freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, > # managed to open all windows and exit car in short > # order. > # > # So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention > # check with a real A/C shop before you spend all > # that money pumping R134 into the system. > # > # Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to > # replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in > # a line, the steering column has to be removed, as > # the dash, console and instrument cluster. My > # local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, > # fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle > # that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out > # where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody > # interior together and from my experience with an > # old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points > # that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps > # the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this > # way, if John has experience in dismantling > # interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to > # get training! > # > # Good luck, > # Edward > # > # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # > UGH! > # > > # > I guess this is what I get for trying to use > # > German cars in a decidedly > # > non-German country. > # > > # > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the > # > A/C in her car before it got > # > really hot. I had stalled on it previously > # > because I thought it was still R-12 > # > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work > # > I saw a sticker on the > # > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and > # > I said, AHA! Somebody did the > # > deed for me! > # > > # > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the > # > fittings were still whatever they > # > were originally. > # > > # > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and > # > picked up a handy-dandy > # > adapter kit that would change R-12 style > # > fittings into R134a-style fittings. I > # > figured I had about got the system beat. > # > > # > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the > # > wheel and make their own > # > recharging ports! So I have no way to get > # > anything into it! > # > > # > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those > # > weird valves! Where can I get > # > it? > # > > # > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on > # > my '77 300D yet. I have it so > # > that the fan will run in defrost and actually > # > have heat, after replacing the > # > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an > # > external fuse holder for the blower > # > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse > # > holder melted out of the > # > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of > # > having the heat working properly. > # > Just in time for summer. 8^) > # > > # > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on > # > the compressor with a jumper > # > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch > # > works........fired up the engine, jumped > # > to that terminal, CLICK > # > Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The > # > compressor still works! So with a little more > # > fiddling but not a lot more > # > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. > # > > # > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to > # > a charging adapter, 'cuz it > # > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! > # > > # > Not adapting to life well, > # > > # > J > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2728 **********************************