From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Apr 21 12:58:57 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 21 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2729 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes Re: [db] A/C Woes [db] larger tires? RE: [db] Stump Grinder Casualty - 190D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:22:02 -0400 From: Marc Z Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes I've heard that it was a patent issue. That the patent would soon run out on R-12 so some scientists were paid to say it caused an ozone hole. I do not personally know that this is true. Marc jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Of course, nobody really proved that freon had anything to do with it, and > some people thought then and still think that it didn't, but as usual, all the > enviros had to do was raise "suspicion" and suddenly the whole world changed > what they were doing to make them happy. PITIFUL! > > J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes > Of course, nobody really proved that freon had anything to do with it, and > some people thought then and still think that it didn't, but as usual, all > the > enviros had to do was raise "suspicion" and suddenly the whole world > changed > what they were doing to make them happy. PITIFUL! *** Do a search on Utube for "Penn and Teller" and "dihydrogen monoxide". Hilarious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:09:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes you mean dupont's patent on R12 expired... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Oops, yep, it was 134 but out of habit I call all the A/C stuff "freon". How # I pine for the old days, so what if a few penguins got suntans? Heh! # # Edward # # john wrote: # > r134 is NOT freon, freon would not bother # > you like 134 does, it's nasty stuff... # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # > # > # Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no # > # A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon # > # leak out through some failure in the core so I am # > # back to zero. # > # # > # The compressor works fine, the system held for # > # about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with # > # cold air coming through the vents, then the seal # > # or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, # > # freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, # > # managed to open all windows and exit car in short # > # order. # > # # > # So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention # > # check with a real A/C shop before you spend all # > # that money pumping R134 into the system. # > # # > # Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to # > # replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in # > # a line, the steering column has to be removed, as # > # the dash, console and instrument cluster. My # > # local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, # > # fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle # > # that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out # > # where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody # > # interior together and from my experience with an # > # old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points # > # that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps # > # the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this # > # way, if John has experience in dismantling # > # interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to # > # get training! # > # # > # Good luck, # > # Edward # > # # > # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > UGH! # > # > # > # > I guess this is what I get for trying to use # > # > German cars in a decidedly # > # > non-German country. # > # > # > # > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the # > # > A/C in her car before it got # > # > really hot. I had stalled on it previously # > # > because I thought it was still R-12 # > # > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work # > # > I saw a sticker on the # > # > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and # > # > I said, AHA! Somebody did the # > # > deed for me! # > # > # > # > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the # > # > fittings were still whatever they # > # > were originally. # > # > # > # > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and # > # > picked up a handy-dandy # > # > adapter kit that would change R-12 style # > # > fittings into R134a-style fittings. I # > # > figured I had about got the system beat. # > # > # > # > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the # > # > wheel and make their own # > # > recharging ports! So I have no way to get # > # > anything into it! # > # > # > # > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those # > # > weird valves! Where can I get # > # > it? # > # > # > # > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on # > # > my '77 300D yet. I have it so # > # > that the fan will run in defrost and actually # > # > have heat, after replacing the # > # > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an # > # > external fuse holder for the blower # > # > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse # > # > holder melted out of the # > # > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of # > # > having the heat working properly. # > # > Just in time for summer. 8^) # > # > # > # > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on # > # > the compressor with a jumper # > # > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch # > # > works........fired up the engine, jumped # > # > to that terminal, CLICK # > # > Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The # > # > compressor still works! So with a little more # > # > fiddling but not a lot more # > # > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. # > # > # > # > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to # > # > a charging adapter, 'cuz it # > # > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! # > # > # > # > Not adapting to life well, # > # > # > # > J # > # # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:16:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes y'all got to see ben stein's movie... expelled... it's about freedom. it's very well done. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Of course, nobody really proved that freon had anything to do with it, and # some people thought then and still think that it didn't, but as usual, all the # enviros had to do was raise "suspicion" and suddenly the whole world changed # what they were doing to make them happy. PITIFUL! # # J # # -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Oops, yep, it was 134 but out of habit I call all the A/C stuff # "freon". How I pine for the old days, so what if a few penguins got # suntans? Heh! # # Edward # # john wrote: # > r134 is NOT freon, freon would not bother # > you like 134 does, it's nasty stuff... # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # > # > # Jason - I have a similar problem with my 300 D, no # > # A/C. I recharged it, then had 100% of the freon # > # leak out through some failure in the core so I am # > # back to zero. # > # # > # The compressor works fine, the system held for # > # about 5 minutes and I though I had A/C again with # > # cold air coming through the vents, then the seal # > # or whatever is failed let go. Let me tell you, # > # freon in a closed compartment is not pleasant, # > # managed to open all windows and exit car in short # > # order. # > # # > # So, word to the wise, do a pressure retention # > # check with a real A/C shop before you spend all # > # that money pumping R134 into the system. # > # # > # Of course, in keeping with Rube Goldberg, to # > # replace the A/C heat exchanger or just the seal in # > # a line, the steering column has to be removed, as # > # the dash, console and instrument cluster. My # > # local mechanic estimated $1800 to tear it down, # > # fix and re-assemble. I am not willing to tackle # > # that dismantling myself as I have yet to find out # > # where all the fasteners are that hold the bloody # > # interior together and from my experience with an # > # old 1964 220Sb, Mercedes puts more fastener points # > # that any other vehicle manufacturer as this keeps # > # the squeaks and rattles down.. Let me put it this # > # way, if John has experience in dismantling # > # interiors, I would drive from MI to Snohomish to # > # get training! # > # # > # Good luck, # > # Edward # > # # > # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > UGH! # > # > # > # > I guess this is what I get for trying to use # > # > German cars in a decidedly # > # > non-German country. # > # > # > # > I was going to do SWMBO a favor and recharge the # > # > A/C in her car before it got # > # > really hot. I had stalled on it previously # > # > because I thought it was still R-12 # > # > (87 300SDL) BUT when performing some other work # > # > I saw a sticker on the # > # > Kompressor that said "retrofitted to R134a" and # > # > I said, AHA! Somebody did the # > # > deed for me! # > # > # > # > BUT, it was half a good deed, because the # > # > fittings were still whatever they # > # > were originally. # > # > # > # > So, I marched on down to the McParts store, and # > # > picked up a handy-dandy # > # > adapter kit that would change R-12 style # > # > fittings into R134a-style fittings. I # > # > figured I had about got the system beat. # > # > # > # > But, NO! Of course not! MB had to reinvent the # > # > wheel and make their own # > # > recharging ports! So I have no way to get # > # > anything into it! # > # > # > # > HELP! I need an adapter that fits onto those # > # > weird valves! Where can I get # > # > it? # > # > # > # > FWIW, I still haven't got the ACC totally up on # > # > my '77 300D yet. I have it so # > # > that the fan will run in defrost and actually # > # > have heat, after replacing the # > # > servo, pushbutton unit, and installing an # > # > external fuse holder for the blower # > # > motor circuit (it got so hot there that the fuse # > # > holder melted out of the # > # > box!) which leaves me an amplifier short of # > # > having the heat working properly. # > # > Just in time for summer. 8^) # > # > # > # > BUT, on a whim, I touched the clutch terminal on # > # > the compressor with a jumper # > # > wire. CLICK! Hmmmm, well, the clutch # > # > works........fired up the engine, jumped # > # > to that terminal, CLICK # > # > Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I about died! The # > # > compressor still works! So with a little more # > # > fiddling but not a lot more # > # > money, I should be able to make the A/C work. # > # > # > # > ASSUMING, of course, that someone puts me on to # > # > a charging adapter, 'cuz it # > # > has the same crazy fittings as the '87! # > # > # > # > Not adapting to life well, # > # > # > # > J # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:17:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] A/C Woes ooh... that's some really bad stuff... it should be outlawed. ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > Of course, nobody really proved that freon had anything to do with it, and # > some people thought then and still think that it didn't, but as usual, all # > the # > enviros had to do was raise "suspicion" and suddenly the whole world # > changed # > what they were doing to make them happy. PITIFUL! # # *** Do a search on Utube for "Penn and Teller" and "dihydrogen monoxide". # Hilarious! # # http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw # # # # - Jerry Kaidor # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] larger tires? I can deal with a few disoriented friends and my son kidding me about the size of the tires on my '91 Grand Wagoneer, but even my wife made a comment about the tire size... so, thinking about getting some 31 x 10.50's, but not excited about it... the speedometer is right on... gearing, at 3.31 is fine with the 6.2L Diesel. The 235's are 28.88 inches, if I got to 31's that'll bump me up to 30.5 inches, not drastic, but enough to make my speedo read slower than I'll be going by about 6%. Actually, that's usually two speedo gear sizes... hmmm... I might even have some left over from the fun with my xj... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-20-Omega-n-trailer/ notice the snow on the roof of the house!!!! this is only a week after an 80 degree Saturday... weird, it's back in the 50's today... had about 6 inches on Friday... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-19-Snow/ALL.html john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:49:36 -0700 From: "Scott Haaland" Subject: RE: [db] Stump Grinder Casualty - 190D I finally got the door torn apart...looks like the dismantler gave me the wrong part for the regulator/motor assembly. It's like apples and oranges, and looks like it came from an 87 190E....I guess Mercedes changed the design from 85 to 87 on the W201? I'm going to inspect it some more to see if I'm supposed to disassemble part of the old one and attach it to the new one, but even the bolts seem to be on the wrong side, and the gears are a different length and arc...strange. I'll at least get the replacement glass installed today. The cold snap that caused John some snow has been putting a nip in the air here in Sacramento the last week. It's cold driving around with the window down/gone.... BTW: There was one bolt under the plastic (took pictures) by the door handle, and the only other tricky part is removing the rod from the door handle that goes to the release latch. Then the rest of the shell just lifts up and off (tried prying it for a while, but finally figured out that it lifts up...) R, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Scott Haaland Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:37 PM To: 'Alec Cordova' Cc: 'DB List' Subject: RE: [db] Stump Grinder Casualty - 190D Alec, Great advice...I remember that pesky screw behind the door handle on my W116...took me a long time to find that. I took that one apart but never got around to putting it back together before I donated the beast. I especially like the advice to fine tune the regulator BEFORE replacing the door panel....now, that just makes sense, but it's exactly the kind of thing I would forget to do in my excitement to get everything back together too quickly. Thanks, Scott - -----Original Message----- From: Alec Cordova [mailto:benzaholic-at-gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:58 AM To: Scott Haaland Cc: DB List Subject: Re: [db] Stump Grinder Casualty - 190D Remember to push the interior door panel up before just trying to pull it away from the door body. When I replaced a W123 regulator, I think I broke a plastic tab behind part of the big pocket on the bottom of the door panel, and I have heard that the W124 is almost entirely clips like that. Not sure which way a W201 will work. I also remember that getting the top of the door panel properly reattached right at the window opening took a couple of tries. Other memories from that long-ago work include using a couple layers of Saran Wrap behind the door panel to compensate for any cuts or tears in the original plastic moisture liner, and wishing I had fine tuned the upper and lower regulator travel stops BEFORE I put the panel back on. The other question is whether the regulator and motor are held in place strictly with screws, like my W123, or if they also use some rivets, like my W124. And the non-intuitive trick on the W123 was that there was a screw behind the inside door release handle. It was covered with just a black plastic piece that formed the back of the place you stick your fingers in to open the door. The plastic could be pried open pretty easily to expose the screw. Good luck, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 08 smart fortwo, 1k, the only Benz-family vehicle left in my stable On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Scott Haaland wrote: > I just found an auto dismantler locally (Rancho Cordova) who has pretty good > prices...$45 for the glass, and $55 per door for the regulator + motor. > Both of my motors are still functioning, so I guess they can become the > backups for later, but that's a fantastic deal for these....granted, they > are used, and probably coming off cars that are also 28 years old...but I > can't afford to pour lots of cash into this car right now, so I'll probably > just get the used parts and at least it will last for a while. The parts > come with a 6 month warranty. > > My deductable is $250 for insurance, so that's not going to do me any good. > A mobile auto glass guy quoted me $155 to come to my house and replace, but > for that price, I can almost get the glass and both regulators that I > need.... > > Any words of advice on the R&R procedure for the window parts? > > Thanks, > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net] On > Behalf Of john > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:07 AM > To: Scott Haaland > Cc: 'DB List' > Subject: Re: [db] Stump Grinder Casualty - 190D > > car-parts.com or give Aurora Wrecking a call and have them > UPS the parts down... or check with any glass shop... > > bummer... just be glad it hit glass and not sheetmetal... your > insurance should cover the costs of replacement, less your ded. > > you might just have a glass shop handle the whole thing...??? > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 14 Apr 2008, Scott Haaland wrote: > > # I was grinding out a big stump in the front yard, didn't even realize it > # until later as > # > # I had my ear plugs on and the engine noise was extremely loud..a piece of > # stump > # > # shrapnel was launched about 25 feet and had a direct hit with my 1985 > 190D > # driver's > # > # side window. It's completely gone. Why did I leave the car in the > # driveway??? > # > # > # > # Oh the stupidity of it all. > # > # > # > # So, what's the procedure to replace the glass on this window? If I need > to > # take the > # > # whole door apart, then I need to replace the regulator too, because it's > # started to strip > # > # and has been knocking as the gears slip at the top, and won't keep the > # window up high > # > # enough to keep it sealed. > # > # > # > # The passenger side regulator has some problem too, as it went "Bink" at > the > # top of > # > # closing, and now the motor runs with no effect on the window. The gear > must > # have > # > # shattered a tooth or something. I guess I should just order two new > # regulators, and > # > # then figure out where to get the glass..in the meantime, can I put a > piece > # of plexiglass > # > # in the window until I get parts?? Or is that just unsafe due to the > # "non-shattering" > # > # characteristic in plexiglass? > # > # > # Any advice is appreciated. > # > # > # > # Thanks, > # Scott > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2729 **********************************