From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Apr 28 16:04:37 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, April 28 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2737 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Re: xj: the 300GD test drive [db] a springtime drive in a Diesel FSJ Re: [db] Re: Interesting growth analysis Re: [db] Saturday upside down Re: [db] the 300GD Re: [db] the 300GD Re: [db] Saturday upside down Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:37:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: xj: the 300GD test drive that one looks like a good deal, nice rig... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3APIC&viewitem=&item=150230568743&rd=1 talked to the guy with the 80 300GD, he'll be lowering the price every week until it sells... if he gets down around 5k I'd consider it, and then I'd put my 2.5L TD / at into it. :) btw, put my pictures of the underside up, they're horrible, was in a hurry, should have used a flash or taken them more carefully: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/80-300GD/ALL.html also pictures from my drive up to Mt. Vernon in my Diesel FSJ... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-27-Mt.Vernon-TULIPS-300GD-Omega/ john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, ernest breakfield wrote: # basically, the big difference in plush factor is between the 2 different # chassis that share the same model number; the ex-mil style like what you # drove is the 460, where the luxe-mobile that the Brads and Jennifer's # drive through yuppieville and you see blinged out rollin' on 'dubs' in # the rapper videos is probably the 462 or 463, which (i *think*) started # around 1990. as far as i know, they didn't ever put a 617 diesel in the # later chassis, though they later went to a powerful V8 gasser that gets # labeled as the G500. # # the big differences in the 460s with the 617 engine that we would # want is wheelbase; there's the short 2-door version like what you drove, # and there's the longer-wheelbase 4-door model that gives you room more # like an XJ than a CJ. ;-) # bummer is that the 4-door 460s with 617s are almost as rare as hens # teeth and fetch a lot of money these days if they're in anything like # good condition. check out this recent example from near me: # http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3APIC&viewitem=&item=150230568743&rd=1 # # if you're looking for one with an automatic, they're even harder to # find. and forget finding one with a turbo unless it's a swap; they # didn't make them that way, though lots of people have made the changeover. # # i know one guy here in Berkeley that has a white 460 with a 617 # turbo with an automatic out of a W123, and it flat gets up and goes, # even though he usually runs it on WVO. the stinger is that he got it for # $10K a few years back; he could probably easily get more than twice that # for it now. # # # cheers! # e # # # john wrote: # > what years? From what I understand they became # > more refined over time... this was an '80, which is what, # > 2nd year of production? # > # > It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either... almost any Cherokee XJ # > I've driven was better. # > # > Thinking about it, the tires on this thing weren't that great # > either... that could explain some of the harshness over bumps. # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/80-300GD/ALL.html # > # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, ernest breakfield wrote: # > # > # before you pass judgment on the 300GD, you might want to try driving one # > # that isn't a short-wheelbase model, and has been maintained properly # > # and/or doesn't have almost 190K+ miles on it! # > # # > # i know of some 4-doors here that i'd trade both my 300D and my XJ # > # for in a heartbeat (if i could!); they'd give me the best of both worlds. # > # # > # # > # cheers! # > # e # > # # > # # > # john wrote: # > # > An '80 300GD came up on craigslist here in Seattle... with the stiff # > # > ride on Omega ('91 Grand Wagoneer with 6.2L Diesel) to deal with, and # > # > other finishing touches, I thought, maybe this would be an easy solution # > # > to having a Diesel 4x4. # > # > # > # > Well, after the test drive, I'll be reworking the suspension on Omega. # > # > # > # > The 300GD was a miserable little gutless box that was wound up tighter # > # > than a mad wasp on espresso at 60 mph. The one I drove was a 4 speed, # > # > but I'm not sure an extra gear would help much... It was a non-turbo, # > # > with no a/c. It took bumps harsher than Omega, it wandered on the # > # > road like a tractor, it was pretty noisy and utilitarian. It needed # > # > a few things, nothing major, had some rust... the gearbox was well worn, # > # > as was the steering box, but even those things like new wouldn't have # > # > made this any better... It was cool nonetheless. And, it was better than # > # > a '48 CJ-2A, but not by much. :) I would prefer a Jeep Cherokee XJ over # > # > one of the 300GDs. # > # > # > # > Just one more encouraging episode in Omega's favor... 18.82mpg, working toward # > # > a better ride and less engine vibration... despite being laid out # > # > from an allergy attack I managed to add a resistor to the fuel sending # > # > unit for the auxillary tank, running on bioDiesel right now. Speedo # > # > still needs to have the gear changed to account for the 6% difference. # > # > One thing I noticed, the xfr case sits a lot further back than it used # > # > to. I guess that's what happens when one puts a larger engine and # > # > transmission in. # > # > # > # > Anyone got any nice SAND colored interior parts for a '91 Grand Wagoneer laying # > # > around? I could use some new(er) front door panels... :) # > # > # > # > It makes more sense to spend the money on a '91 Grand Wagoneer than to buy something # > # > new, or newer... considering the guy wanted $14,500 for the '80 300GD I could # > # > invest a LOT in Omega to produce much better results. # > # > # > # > I guess this just goes to show that real Jeeps are built, not bought. # > # > (and one other catch phrase if I may, "real engines rattle". :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:44:57 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] a springtime drive in a Diesel FSJ changed the directory: was # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-27-Mt.Vernon-TULIPS-300GD-Omega/ IS: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-27-Mt.Vernon-TULIPS-Omega/ ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:56:30 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Re: Interesting growth analysis Yes, the enviro-elitists all want us to reduce our lifestyle while they live like kings. As for as the cost of fuel, Neal Boortz had someone on his show who pointed out something very interesting: an ounce of gold still buys just as much oil now as it did in 1960. The issue is NOT just high oil prices; it's a severely devalued currency! Lots of that is coming from the fEd trying to inflate his way out of the perceived economic crises we've seen recently. But for all the hype and the perception of "doing something," it's actually made life much harder for most. J - -- john wrote: http://www.crosscut.com/transportation/13638/A+big%2C+new+growth+management+ plan+is+already+outgrown/ I heard that our democratic governor wants 50% of the people out of their cars by something like 2012... this to reduce traffic congestion... they aren't building roads, or even widening the ones they have very much or very fast. ...and they expect people to cram together in "core" cities. If public transportation actually worked more people would use it. But when it takes three times as long to get somewhere using it, and you still have to drive to use it... it's pointless. the price of fuel is really going to hurt a lot of folks that can't afford it. The use of Diesel engines might become more popular... they pollute less, are way more efficient and can make use of waste food products to make bioDiesel and not tap into the food market like ethanol does. Three out of five vehicles in my driveway are Diesel... both of my daily drivers are not Diesel, as is my son's. The two gas vehicles don't get used much. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:20:27 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Saturday upside down Wow, sounds like fun. Almost as much fun as my weekend! VW has always been a bit tricky to work on, IMHO. They're just a bit too cramped for my tastes. And any time you get plastic involved, trouble is sure to ensue...... What was wrong with the IP? I've have lots of these and never rebuilt one yet, and it's not like I pamper them........ J - -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: Well - the sun is shining and the temps climbed from 42 at 6 AM to 60 by 2PM , so I decided to fix the Jetta diesel ABS sensor that has gone wonky. Simple job, right? Remove one screw, disconnect plug, remove old sensor, insert new sensor, reconnect, insert screw and done! Yeah, rignt!>$P<>!-at- Anyone that says German engineering is improving is out to lunch. The old sensor sheared on the backplate when attempted removal and what was left was immobile. To get it out had to remove brake caliper, then upside down on back, with about 14" clearance under car and no space to speak of, pound the plastic from back to push old bit towards disk and hope it comes out. Yeah, right!. Small chips, so keep at it. Break long screwdriver handle, that's ok, the steel part is better to strike anyway....2 hours later, all bits out of the way, almost done..... not. New part does not fit, the diameter of the plastic does not match the hole and there is no way to press it in due to the angle of the connector and the offset tang that the screw goes through, as relate to the barrel. Grrr. Scrape all flashing and ridges with knife. No go. Sand with care for 15 minutes, apply lithium grease....better, still no go. Remove, clean, sand more, grease again.... almost....... tap and pray with small hammer, YES! it is going in to position..... insert screw clip connector, re-assemble caliper, torque all bolts, re install wheel, torque all bolts...... done. That was 3 hours from start to finish. Almost makes me want to either dig a pit in the barn or shell out 1.5K for a two post lift.... Maybe next year, sigh! Next job, take the Benz to the local Indie to get the IP removed, rebuilt and re-inserted. Sigh!. The dough just does not accumulate faster than it goes out. And all this after having mowed the lawn (first time for the season), swept out the garage (all that sand and salt is a mess) and had the Comcast repairman in the attic over bad signal levels, had NO INTERNET connection this AM.. Turns out the latter was caused by Comcast LOWERING the signal strength to my zone so they had to come in and re-wire and put new splitters (one two split with one leg feeding the computer and 3 split for the TV's in the house) in place of the original that had 1 in and 4 out. It did solve the problem. I imagine everyone else in the area is having same problem with cable modems this AM. Would think it less expensive to just leave the DB levels alone in the first place! Grrr. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:04:09 -0400 From: "J.B. Hebert" Subject: Re: [db] the 300GD All GD's have divorced transfer cases. J.B. At 04:25 PM 4/27/2008, john wrote: >the 300GD, the Gelandeawagen (sp???) > >http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/80-300GD/ALL.html > >will add pictures of the underside... didn't get good ones >though, wanted to see how the xfr case mated up... :( > >john > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > # Were you driving a Gelandwagen or a Unimog? From the > description it sounded > # like the latter, which would explain a lot. If a GW I am surprised at the > # report on the suspension, they are not supposed to be that stiff > though the > # underpowered and no a/c is pretty standard. > # > # > # john wrote: > # > I rerouted the air intake and even that helped. It's > # > much quieter with the turbo muffler and some underhood > # > insulation. I'm sure the dynamat will help a lot. > # > > # > Once I get the spring rate adjusted the ride will > # > improve as well. :) Glad I was able to test drive > # > a 300GD. > # > > # > john > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1401 - Release Date: >4/28/2008 7:18 AM - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1401 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 7:18 AM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] the 300GD On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, J.B. Hebert wrote: # All GD's have divorced transfer cases. # J.B. I know, that's one of the reasons I am interested in them. That divorced case makes it easy to put a better engine/trans in front... if this guy came back and said he'd sell it really cheap, I'd be looking for a late 80's 3.0 TD or a 2.5TD and auto... and would look at getting at least 4.10 or 3.73 in the axles... The rust issues and steering box could be taken care of as well. I'd probably drop about 4 or 5k into it and it would be nice... but not as nice as my '91 Grand Wagoneer even after all of that. Thinking about this one more, it was well worn and best described as "vague". With 5.33 gears, no overdrive or turbo, and what appeared to be a significant curb weight, it really didn't get me excited. If this thing had taller gears, a turbo, and a tighter feel I could see myself in it. It had good forward visibility, a nice tall cabin with lots of room. I think the tires and worn suspension components on this one spoiled it for me. But even if this thing had been pristine, it is not even in the same neighborhood as a Grand Wagoneer for all around manners and capabilities. Off road they would be a good match, the 300GD would have the advantage of locking diffs and lower gears, but otherwise I think they'd be fairly matched off road. On road the Grand Wagoneer takes it hands down. In towing, the Jeep would be my choice. I'll keep looking at these little 300GDs as I have an opportunity, I like the feel in the cabin and the looks and idea of having one, but for the best value I'm miles ahead in a modified Grand Wagoneer. I'm going to get a better lift kit for my Grand Wag... soundproofing, maybe new engine/trans mounts and continue with the seat upgrades... it's coming along... and I'm very, very happy to have satisfied my curiousity about the 300GDs. They are indeed fine vehicles and I will consider any I see, but not at the current prices. :) It is interesting to see the differences in engineering and quality between the Jeep and the Mercedes... it's amazing that the Jeep does so much better despite less sophisticated engineering and most certainly lower quality... :) Just dumb luck I guess... Or, just maybe, keeping Rube Goldberg out of the design process results in a more simple, more elegant solution that just works... Long live leaf springs and solid axles... :) Does anyone know if swapping axle ratios in the 300GDs is economically feasible? 100km/hr top end is pretty lame... later, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:54:59 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Saturday upside down I replaced the seals on the IP and through being in a rush, messed up the positioning of two of the itty bitty barrel shaped thingies at the base of the chamber. I did not know it at the time. Since then I have dismantled the top end and ever so carefully rotated and replaced the two that are wonky, trying small shifts in position. Got close with one, but out of five IP pump pistons I have three that work, one partial and one not at all. Black smoke galore out the tailpipe and the car runs with diminished power. After so many tries and even reading the Bosch manuals and trying again I gave up. Taking it to a pro to have him take out the whole pump, ship it to a licensed rebuilder and then re-insert it correctly. A special tool is needed for that last step and at 500 bucks plus the learning curve, I will pay the guy to do it right once. My own damned fault for being rushed. As best I can determine there is this miniscule (1/32 inch pin that is maybe about that long, that is supposed to guide the barrel into position, I think I damaged 2 of them. We shall see. Can't imagine Bosch would build it so that it could not be repaired with new bits. I have a junkyard IP of almost identical vintage to scavenge the parts from. Hoping this keeps the whole job under $1500 or so. Learned my lesson tho'. No more rush jobs on the Benz. Do it by the book or not at all. jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > Wow, sounds like fun. Almost as much fun as my weekend! > > VW has always been a bit tricky to work on, IMHO. They're just a bit too > cramped for my tastes. And any time you get plastic involved, trouble is sure > to ensue...... > > What was wrong with the IP? I've have lots of these and never rebuilt one yet, > and it's not like I pamper them........ > > J > > -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Well - the sun is shining and the temps climbed from 42 at 6 AM to 60 by > 2PM , so I decided to fix the Jetta diesel ABS sensor that has gone > wonky. Simple job, right? Remove one screw, disconnect plug, remove > old sensor, insert new sensor, reconnect, insert screw and done! Yeah, > rignt!>$P<>!-at- > > Anyone that says German engineering is improving is out to lunch. The > old sensor sheared on the backplate when attempted removal and what was > left was immobile. To get it out had to remove brake caliper, then > upside down on back, with about 14" clearance under car and no space to > speak of, pound the plastic from back to push old bit towards disk and > hope it comes out. Yeah, right!. Small chips, so keep at it. Break long > screwdriver handle, that's ok, the steel part is better to strike > anyway....2 hours later, all bits out of the way, almost done..... not. > New part does not fit, the diameter of the plastic does not match the > hole and there is no way to press it in due to the angle of the > connector and the offset tang that the screw goes through, as relate to > the barrel. Grrr. > > Scrape all flashing and ridges with knife. No go. Sand with care for 15 > minutes, apply lithium grease....better, still no go. Remove, clean, > sand more, grease again.... almost....... tap and pray with small > hammer, YES! it is going in to position..... insert screw clip > connector, re-assemble caliper, torque all bolts, re install wheel, > torque all bolts...... done. That was 3 hours from start to finish. > Almost makes me want to either dig a pit in the barn or shell out 1.5K > for a two post lift.... Maybe next year, sigh! > > Next job, take the Benz to the local Indie to get the IP removed, > rebuilt and re-inserted. Sigh!. The dough just does not accumulate > faster than it goes out. > > And all this after having mowed the lawn (first time for the season), > swept out the garage (all that sand and salt is a mess) and had the > Comcast repairman in the attic over bad signal levels, had NO INTERNET > connection this AM.. Turns out the latter was caused by Comcast > LOWERING the signal strength to my zone so they had to come in and > re-wire and put new splitters (one two split with one leg feeding the > computer and 3 split for the TV's in the house) in place of the original > that had 1 in and 4 out. It did solve the problem. I imagine everyone > else in the area is having same problem with cable modems this AM. Would > think it less expensive to just leave the DB levels alone in the first > place! > > Grrr. ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2737 **********************************