From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jun 5 14:14:14 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, June 5 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2779 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] air power Re: [db] air power Re: [db] air power Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) Re: [db] air power Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) Re: [db] air power Re: [db] air power Re: [db] air power Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] air power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4 a hybrid setup with a small Diesel would be very practical... the 2nd engine they mention is a wankel, but I don't recall if they called it that... If I can get 24 mpg out of a 5,600lb Grand Wagoneer with an inefficient 6.2L Diesel, image what you could do with a turbo Diesel and this setup! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:16:24 -0700 From: cosmos Subject: Re: [db] air power I know in the past safety was a big concern as well as durability. They were manufacturing with plastics and glue to keep the car light instead of metals/fasteners. From the research I've done, 120 miles will be long enough for consumers to buy. At first it seems reasonable, but as they drive the vehicle, they get worried about running out of fuel. Hybrid versions will be interesting but I'm hesitant of NY to LA as I know the first trials fell significantly short of their targets. Also, with the bumper to bumper full width air tanks, I don't see room the small vehicle for more than 5-8 gallons of fuel. ICEs are only so efficient... I'm always excited for new technologies, we'll see how it evolves. I'm curious how much energy it takes to compress air to 300 bar. On Thursday, June 05, 2008, at 09:19AM, "john" wrote: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4 > >a hybrid setup with a small Diesel would be very practical... > >the 2nd engine they mention is a wankel, but I don't recall >if they called it that... > >If I can get 24 mpg out of a 5,600lb Grand Wagoneer with >an inefficient 6.2L Diesel, image what you could do with >a turbo Diesel and this setup! > >john > > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] air power what will be interesting to see is if they're able to incorporate regenerative braking too... we have the technology... just have to have the economic motivation to use it. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, cosmos wrote: # I know in the past safety was a big concern as well as durability. They were manufacturing with plastics and glue to keep the car light instead of metals/fasteners. From the research I've done, 120 miles will be long enough for consumers to buy. At first it seems reasonable, but as they drive the vehicle, they get worried about running out of fuel. Hybrid versions will be interesting but I'm hesitant of NY to LA as I know the first trials fell significantly short of their targets. Also, with the bumper to bumper full width air tanks, I don't see room the small vehicle for more than 5-8 gallons of fuel. ICEs are only so efficient... # # I'm always excited for new technologies, we'll see how it evolves. I'm curious how much energy it takes to compress air to 300 bar. # # # On Thursday, June 05, 2008, at 09:19AM, "john" wrote: # >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4 # > # >a hybrid setup with a small Diesel would be very practical... # > # >the 2nd engine they mention is a wankel, but I don't recall # >if they called it that... # > # >If I can get 24 mpg out of a 5,600lb Grand Wagoneer with # >an inefficient 6.2L Diesel, image what you could do with # >a turbo Diesel and this setup! # > # >john # > # > # > ----- # >------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # >------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:56:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) I researched it a while back and found 700lbs but I'm not sure that is accurate. Anyone else have any numbers? Jim - --- john wrote: > I don't see why it couldn't be done, > there is a frame to work with... one > might have to upgrade the axle or > springs a bit. > > the only reason I had to add lift > was because my stock springs sagged so > badly. negative arch before the swap. > > anyone know what a 4bt weighs? > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # No, but that link that you passed along had > mention > # of a guy who was putting 4bt's into Jeeps. Just > # curious... > # > # Jim > # > # --- john wrote: > # > # > the 2.8CRD isn't a 4bt... > # > > # > don't recall either of those threads suggesting > that > # > one. > # > > # > ----- > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > don't > # > rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > # > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Wed, 4 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > > # > # I thought we've discussed this before and > the 4BT > # > # series of engines is way to heavy for a CJ > or XJ > # > style > # > # Jeep. No? > # > # > # > # Jim > # > # > # > # > # > > # > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CUMMINS-4BT-4-5-LITER-DIESEL-ENGINE-100-HP-2200_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ005QQitemZ150252125909QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW > # > # > # > # --- john wrote: > # > # > # > # > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > # > # > From: Jim Blair > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530848 > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > http://blogs.4wdandsportutility.com/6232286/editorials/diesel-jeep-swap-kit/index.html > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:54:41 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] air power Be careful. The 6.2 was quite an efficient engine for its displacement and power output, had to do with the shape of the combustion chamber. On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 09:20:37AM -0700, john wrote: > If I can get 24 mpg out of a 5,600lb Grand Wagoneer with > an inefficient 6.2L Diesel, image what you could do with > a turbo Diesel and this setup! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) that sounds reasonable... my 6.2L Diesel weighs 650lbs, an AMC 360 weighs 540lbs. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # I researched it a while back and found 700lbs but I'm # not sure that is accurate. Anyone else have any # numbers? # # Jim # # --- john wrote: # # > I don't see why it couldn't be done, # > there is a frame to work with... one # > might have to upgrade the axle or # > springs a bit. # > # > the only reason I had to add lift # > was because my stock springs sagged so # > badly. negative arch before the swap. # > # > anyone know what a 4bt weighs? # > # > ----- # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # > rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: # > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # No, but that link that you passed along had # > mention # > # of a guy who was putting 4bt's into Jeeps. Just # > # curious... # > # # > # Jim # > # # > # --- john wrote: # > # # > # > the 2.8CRD isn't a 4bt... # > # > # > # > don't recall either of those threads suggesting # > that # > # > one. # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > don't # > # > rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: # > # > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # > # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 4 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # > # > # I thought we've discussed this before and # > the 4BT # > # > # series of engines is way to heavy for a CJ # > or XJ # > # > style # > # > # Jeep. No? # > # > # # > # > # Jim # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CUMMINS-4BT-4-5-LITER-DIESEL-ENGINE-100-HP-2200_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ005QQitemZ150252125909QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW # > # > # # > # > # --- john wrote: # > # > # # > # > # > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- # > # > # > From: Jim Blair # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530848 # > # > # > # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # http://blogs.4wdandsportutility.com/6232286/editorials/diesel-jeep-swap-kit/index.html # > # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] air power well, that's good to know. :) it's nice to have a friend aware of the 6.2, especially one that is technically competent. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Kevin wrote: # Be careful. The 6.2 was quite an efficient engine for its displacement and # power output, had to do with the shape of the combustion chamber. # # On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 09:20:37AM -0700, john wrote: # > If I can get 24 mpg out of a 5,600lb Grand Wagoneer with # > an inefficient 6.2L Diesel, image what you could do with # > a turbo Diesel and this setup! # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:16:04 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] air power And I'm casually looking at getting another one - this one is in a 3/4 ton suburban with a clutch, winch, and a decent body. It has the 6.5 turbo stuff adapted to it, which interests me - if I go look at it (or even buy it), I'll take pictures of the turbo setup for you. Probably would be a lot cheaper to go that route with junkyard parts than to try to get the banks setup for yours. The 6.2 generally can't take much more power than the DB2 can deliver, but you really need to watch gauges with it. Max EGT is a lot lower than anything else, something like 900 degrees F. The normally aspirated one in the dually is quite a workhorse, as long as you are not in a hurry. On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 01:12:09PM -0700, john wrote: > well, that's good to know. :) > > it's nice to have a friend aware of the 6.2, especially > one that is technically competent. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] air power one good thing about the 3/4T variants is NO egr... I was going to swap out the manifold on my other 6.2... the egr sits right smack in the middle of the "C" motors... the "J" motor is the one without obstruction... breath deep... ;) would be interested to see how the 6.5 Turbo could be adapted. the banks kit provides a custom exhaust all the way back... not suitable for my application, obviously... need to use the stock down pipes. will need to clear a bit of space on the pass side inner fender, but this shouldn't be too hard... my son has a nice sawzall. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Kevin wrote: # And I'm casually looking at getting another one - this one is in a 3/4 ton # suburban with a clutch, winch, and a decent body. It has the 6.5 turbo stuff # adapted to it, which interests me - if I go look at it (or even buy it), I'll # take pictures of the turbo setup for you. Probably would be a lot cheaper # to go that route with junkyard parts than to try to get the banks setup for # yours. # # The 6.2 generally can't take much more power than the DB2 can deliver, but # you really need to watch gauges with it. Max EGT is a lot lower than anything # else, something like 900 degrees F. # # The normally aspirated one in the dually is quite a workhorse, as long as you # are not in a hurry. # # On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 01:12:09PM -0700, john wrote: # > well, that's good to know. :) # > # > it's nice to have a friend aware of the 6.2, especially # > one that is technically competent. ;) # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:56:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] xj: diesel Jeep kits (fwd) So you think a 4 cyl would weigh 50lbs more than an 8 cyl.?? That doesn't seem right to me... Jim - --- john wrote: > that sounds reasonable... my 6.2L Diesel weighs > 650lbs, > an AMC 360 weighs 540lbs. > > john > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # I researched it a while back and found 700lbs but > I'm > # not sure that is accurate. Anyone else have any > # numbers? > # > # Jim > # > # --- john wrote: > # > # > I don't see why it couldn't be done, > # > there is a frame to work with... one > # > might have to upgrade the axle or > # > springs a bit. > # > > # > the only reason I had to add lift > # > was because my stock springs sagged so > # > badly. negative arch before the swap. > # > > # > anyone know what a 4bt weighs? > # > > # > ----- > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > don't > # > rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > # > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Thu, 5 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > > # > # No, but that link that you passed along had > # > mention > # > # of a guy who was putting 4bt's into Jeeps. > Just > # > # curious... > # > # > # > # Jim > # > # > # > # --- john wrote: > # > # > # > # > the 2.8CRD isn't a 4bt... > # > # > > # > # > don't recall either of those threads > suggesting > # > that > # > # > one. > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where > Jeeps > # > don't > # > # > rust, they mold > # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > On Wed, 4 Jun 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # I thought we've discussed this before > and > # > the 4BT > # > # > # series of engines is way to heavy for a > CJ > # > or XJ > # > # > style > # > # > # Jeep. No? > # > # > # > # > # > # Jim > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CUMMINS-4BT-4-5-LITER-DIESEL-ENGINE-100-HP-2200_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ005QQitemZ150252125909QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW > # > # > # > # > # > # --- john wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > # > ---------- Forwarded message > ---------- > # > # > # > From: Jim Blair > # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=530848 > # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # > http://blogs.4wdandsportutility.com/6232286/editorials/diesel-jeep-swap-kit/index.html > # > # > # > # > # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2779 **********************************