From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 2 09:21:29 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, July 2 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2803 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] heating fuel Re: [db] heating fuel Re: [db] heating fuel Re: [db] heating fuel Re: [db] heating fuel RE: [db] heating fuel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] heating fuel trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on my '91 Grand Wagoneer... currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank that sits where the spare tire used to live... both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters (10micron) which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator setup. >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary filter on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... (left a few parts out. ;) Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with just veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some biodiesel. Option one: HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm Option two: Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater hose with coolant back to the tanks... two options with heat exchangers: http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric one and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric uses 12A. The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I want to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need another valve setup to switch the heater in and out... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:45:33 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] heating fuel Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or 7th) I remind you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to make a heat exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You even posted it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and it will cost you too little to mention. Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. J - -- john wrote: trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on my '91 Grand Wagoneer... currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank that sits where the spare tire used to live... both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters (10micron) which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator setup. >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary filter on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... (left a few parts out. ;) Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with just veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some biodiesel. Option one: HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm Option two: Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater hose with coolant back to the tanks... two options with heat exchangers: http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric one and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric uses 12A. The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I want to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need another valve setup to switch the heater in and out... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] heating fuel jason, I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with your install plans are the space required to implement... and the fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves to switch things around... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! # # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or 7th) I remind # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to make a heat # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You even posted # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and it will cost # you too little to mention. # # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. # # J # # -- john wrote: # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... # # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank # that sits where the spare tire used to live... # # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters (10micron) # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator setup. # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary filter # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... (left # a few parts out. ;) # # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with just # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some biodiesel. # # # Option one: # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm # # Option two: # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater hose # with coolant back to the tanks... # # two options with heat exchangers: # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ # # # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric one # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric uses 12A. # # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I want # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? # # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need another valve # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:53:39 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] heating fuel Well, I missed the reference to mine, because the only reference was the link. Your reference to the Greasel.com setup, which runs lines with coolant in them all the way back to the tank, was the only heat exchanger option you spoke of in sentences. MY setup doesn't run lines to the tank, and in fact could be coiled up and mounted to the firewall. It's very much like the red Frybrid heaters, it just doesn't cost $120-$200! And it only took me a few hours to make mine, and that was flying by the seat of my pants! It really would solve your problems...... BTW, I was kidding about the senile thing....hope you weren't offended...... J - -- john wrote: jason, I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with your install plans are the space required to implement... and the fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves to switch things around... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! # # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or 7th) I remind # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to make a heat # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You even posted # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and it will cost # you too little to mention. # # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. # # J # # -- john wrote: # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... # # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank # that sits where the spare tire used to live... # # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters (10micron) # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator setup. # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary filter # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... (left # a few parts out. ;) # # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with just # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some biodiesel. # # # Option one: # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm # # Option two: # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater hose # with coolant back to the tanks... # # two options with heat exchangers: # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ # # # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric one # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric uses 12A. # # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I want # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? # # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need another valve # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:06:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] heating fuel wasn't offended... but a few hours of my time is worth more than a couple hundred bucks... ;) Besides, I'd never trust my own soldering... would always have a nagging doubt. ;) actually, the VW TDI fuel heater setup is very, very attractive, just need to figure out how to plumb in a valve setup for the auxillary tank... will be using biodiesel most of the time, not sure if heating biodiesel to 160 degrees would be a problem. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Well, I missed the reference to mine, because the only reference was the link. # Your reference to the Greasel.com setup, which runs lines with coolant in them # all the way back to the tank, was the only heat exchanger option you spoke of # in sentences. MY setup doesn't run lines to the tank, and in fact could be # coiled up and mounted to the firewall. It's very much like the red Frybrid # heaters, it just doesn't cost $120-$200! # # And it only took me a few hours to make mine, and that was flying by the seat # of my pants! # # It really would solve your problems...... # # BTW, I was kidding about the senile thing....hope you weren't offended...... # # J # # -- john wrote: # jason, # # I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... # # I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with # your install plans are the space required to implement... and the # fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... # # a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more # costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie # oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves # to switch things around... :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # # # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! # # # # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or 7th) I # remind # # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to make a # heat # # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You even # posted # # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and it will # cost # # you too little to mention. # # # # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. # # # # J # # # # -- john wrote: # # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on # # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... # # # # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along # # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank # # that sits where the spare tire used to live... # # # # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters (10micron) # # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up # # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator setup. # # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary filter # # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a # # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... (left # # a few parts out. ;) # # # # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with just # # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some biodiesel. # # # # # # Option one: # # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: # # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm # # # # Option two: # # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the # # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater hose # # with coolant back to the tanks... # # # # two options with heat exchangers: # # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat # # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ # # # # # # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric one # # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric uses 12A. # # # # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I want # # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? # # # # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need another valve # # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) # # # # john # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:17:17 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] heating fuel I thought real biodiesel didn't need much heating, but I would think it would have no objections to 160 degrees. Impurities have been filtered and processed out, so even repeated cycles between ambient temps and 160 shouldn't cause anything unwanted to form. Alec > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:07 AM > To: jasonbassett-at-juno.com > Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] heating fuel > > > wasn't offended... but a few hours of my time is worth > more than a couple hundred bucks... ;) Besides, I'd > never trust my own soldering... would always have a nagging doubt. ;) > > actually, the VW TDI fuel heater setup is very, very attractive, > just need to figure out how to plumb in a valve setup for > the auxillary tank... will be using biodiesel most of the time, > not sure if heating biodiesel to 160 degrees would be a problem. > > john ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2803 **********************************