From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 2 22:05:06 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, July 3 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2805 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] two questions - fuel related Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... Re: [db] two questions - fuel related Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel (fwd) Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel (fwd) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] two questions - fuel related 1) anyone have experience with using an electric pump to push toward a factory lift pump? Thinking of adding an inline pump on my 6.2L Diesel. The electric pump is a passthrough type if it's off or fails. The lift pump is new, and since this is a Diesel setup there isn't the danger of rupturing the diapraghm and having the crankcase fill with that nasty gasoline stuff. 2) anyone know if there is any problem with heating Diesel fuel to 160 degrees before going into the injection pump? I know that WVO should be heated to 160 degrees to match the viscosity of "normal" Diesel, but I'm not sure if problems would result if I heat normal Diesel or bioDiesel. thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:18:51 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... Yeah, whatever.....I dodged a car on a 2-lane road coming right down the middle, straddling the line, coming around a bend, no advance warning, driving w/ left hand only (I'm right handed) while on my cel-phone, right hand to right ear with phone. Some people can't chew gum and walk, either.......if you don't have enough focus to talk and drive, then don't, but don't legislate that I can't, because I've done it very safely for years. J - -- john wrote: today is the day that talking on a cell phone without a headset or handsfree setup is illegal in Washington state... found out there is an outfit that gives away headsets for phones: http://FreeHeadset.org I couldn't imagine driving why holding a cell phone... I can't image walking or even sitting while holding a cell phone... the folks that say there is no difference between talking on a cell phone with a headset versus holding it obviously don't drive much, or drink lattes... Need to keep my hands free for radio adjustments and the latte... only have two hands, don't want to waste one holding a phone. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:22:53 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] two questions - fuel related Why not just bypass the mechanical lift pump? If your electric one is good, you won't need it. And heating a fuel that's already as thin as ULSD is; probably NOT a good idea. J - -- john wrote: 1) anyone have experience with using an electric pump to push toward a factory lift pump? Thinking of adding an inline pump on my 6.2L Diesel. The electric pump is a passthrough type if it's off or fails. The lift pump is new, and since this is a Diesel setup there isn't the danger of rupturing the diapraghm and having the crankcase fill with that nasty gasoline stuff. 2) anyone know if there is any problem with heating Diesel fuel to 160 degrees before going into the injection pump? I know that WVO should be heated to 160 degrees to match the viscosity of "normal" Diesel, but I'm not sure if problems would result if I heat normal Diesel or bioDiesel. thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:29:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > > today is the day that talking on a cell phone without a headset > or handsfree setup is illegal in Washington state... > *** In California too. Same law, same day. Let's be careful not to hit anybody while we're trying to poke the little pin in the little hole, OK? - Jerry Kaidor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] new law in WA - look ma, no hands... I destroyed a Treo with one of those pins... it fell into the shifter on my 300D and got bent... didn't see it and put it into the bottom of the treo and busted out the jack... :( who would have thought such a thing possible? :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Jerome Kaidor wrote: # jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > today is the day that talking on a cell phone without a headset # > or handsfree setup is illegal in Washington state... # > # *** In California too. Same law, same day. Let's be careful not # to hit anybody while we're trying to poke the little pin in the little # hole, OK? # # - Jerry Kaidor # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:18:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel (fwd) Stephen, Makes me wonder how much I really need to heat to make this work... I wonder where I can find authoritative info on this... rather than heating an entire tank, if I heat up a gallon or so that might work... 16 to 24 miles per one gallon... you know, heating the fuel coming in shouldn't be hard... I guess I can figure out the flow rate at 16 mpg to determine how much fuel I need to keep heated and at what rate... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Stephen Cahill Hello John They have done over the site completely. Look at http://www.plantdrive.com/shop/home.php?cat=250 That will keep help to keep a tank warm. Their products are used in Alaska, so you are covered. Stephen Tell Craig I sent you. On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:17 PM, john wrote: > I don't see a "hot stick heater"... got a more specific link? > > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Stephen Cahill wrote: > > # Morning John > # http://www.plantdrive.com/ > # Check out their hot stick heater. > # I think that will work for you. > # > # Stephen > # > # Check out their hot stick heater. > # > # On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:06 PM, john wrote: > # > # > jason, > # > > # > I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... > # > > # > I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with > # > your install plans are the space required to implement... and the > # > fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... > # > > # > a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more > # > costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie > # > oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves > # > to switch things around... :) > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: > # > > # > # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! > # > # > # > # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or > 7th) I > # > remind > # > # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to > make a > # > heat > # > # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You > even > # > posted > # > # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and > it > # > will cost > # > # you too little to mention. > # > # > # > # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. > # > # > # > # J > # > # > # > # -- john wrote: > # > # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on > # > # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... > # > # > # > # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along > # > # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank > # > # that sits where the spare tire used to live... > # > # > # > # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters > (10micron) > # > # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up > # > # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator > setup. > # > # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary > filter > # > # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a > # > # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... > # > (left > # > # a few parts out. ;) > # > # > # > # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with > just > # > # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some > # > biodiesel. > # > # > # > # > # > # Option one: > # > # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm > # > # > # > # Option two: > # > # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the > # > # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater > hose > # > # with coolant back to the tanks... > # > # > # > # two options with heat exchangers: > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat > # > # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ > # > # > # > # > # > # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric > one > # > # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric > uses > # > 12A. > # > # > # > # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I > want > # > # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? > # > # > # > # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need > another > # > valve > # > # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) > # > # > # > # john > # > # > # > # ----- > # > # > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold > # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > # > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > - -- Stephen Cahill Old British Wheels Canada LTD. Dartmouth Nova Scotia Canada 902 229 3778 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel (fwd) that's what I'm thinking... a short section of heater activated when running wvo... if it can be heated quickly enough... the return line would then heat up the tank... and again, we don't have to worry about the cold weather.. much. Guess I could get a heater to mount to the tank and when parked at night heat both tanks up... so many options. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Eric Ditwiler wrote: # Have you seen the electric heaters that go on the lines between the IP and the injector? These, a heated filter or heat exchanger ought to work until your whole tank gels up--maybe you can heat the tank with exhaust? Would not help on a Minnesota morning in January but probably enough as long as you stay west of the Cascades. # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "diesel-benz list" # Cc: "David Ashby" # Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:18:49 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific # Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] heating fuel (fwd) # # Stephen, # # Makes me wonder how much I really need to heat to make this work... # # I wonder where I can find authoritative info on this... rather than # heating an entire tank, if I heat up a gallon or so that might work... # 16 to 24 miles per one gallon... # # you know, heating the fuel coming in shouldn't be hard... I guess I # can figure out the flow rate at 16 mpg to determine how much fuel I need # to keep heated and at what rate... # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # ---------- Forwarded message ---------- # From: Stephen Cahill # # Hello John # They have done over the site completely. # # Look at # http://www.plantdrive.com/shop/home.php?cat=250 # # That will keep help to keep a tank warm. # Their products are used in Alaska, so you are covered. # # Stephen # Tell Craig I sent you. # # On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:17 PM, john wrote: # # > I don't see a "hot stick heater"... got a more specific link? # > # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Stephen Cahill wrote: # > # > # Morning John # > # http://www.plantdrive.com/ # > # Check out their hot stick heater. # > # I think that will work for you. # > # # > # Stephen # > # # > # Check out their hot stick heater. # > # # > # On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:06 PM, john wrote: # > # # > # > jason, # > # > # > # > I may be getting senile, but you need a remedial reading course... # > # > # > # > I listed your write up as one of the options... the problem with # > # > your install plans are the space required to implement... and the # > # > fact it takes time to assemble your quite workable plan... # > # > # > # > a VW water heated filter setup may be the better solution, more # > # > costly, but less complex and less likely to spew coolant and veggie # > # > oil all over the place. :) I will just need to put in a few valves # > # > to switch things around... :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Tue, 1 Jul 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # > # > # > # > # Good grief, John! You must be getting senile! # > # > # # > # > # Every time you ask this question (this has got to be the 6th or # > 7th) I # > # > remind # > # > # you that I sent you detailed instructions AND DIAGRAMS for how to # > make a # > # > heat # > # > # exchanger that you DON'T have to run all the way to the tank. You # > even # > # > posted # > # > # it on your site! You should have lots of room under the hood, and # > it # > # > will cost # > # > # you too little to mention. # > # > # # > # > # Why consider anything else? You must have forgotten about it. # > # > # # > # > # J # > # > # # > # > # -- john wrote: # > # > # trying to figure out the best way of heating vegetable oil on # > # > # my '91 Grand Wagoneer... # > # > # # > # > # currently have two tanks... stock factory 20 gallon plastic, along # > # > # the driver's side frame... and an aftermarket 20 gallon metal tank # > # > # that sits where the spare tire used to live... # > # > # # > # > # both tanks are fed through a pair of matching Racor filters # > (10micron) # > # > # which then feed a solenoid... the line from the solenoid goes up # > # > # to the firewall and uses the stock GM 6.2L Filter/water separator # > setup. # > # > # >From there the fuel goes to a lift pump and then to a secondary # > filter # > # > # on the intake manifold and into the injection pump... from there a # > # > # miracle occurs and the Grand Wagoneer gets 24 mpg on the freeway... # > # > (left # > # > # a few parts out. ;) # > # > # # > # > # Anyway... trying to decide if I want to add yet another tank with # > just # > # > # veggie oil or use one of the tanks for only veggie oil and some # > # > biodiesel. # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # Option one: # > # > # HEATED FILTER SETUP ON FIREWALL: # > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm # > # > # # > # > # Option two: # > # > # Using a heat exchanger might work to heat the fuel and then the # > # > # tank... but I'm not excited about running 20 plus feet of heater # > hose # > # > # with coolant back to the tanks... # > # > # # > # > # two options with heat exchangers: # > # > # http://www.frybrid.com/parts.htm#heat # > # > # http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # If I run the heated filter setup there is the option of an electric # > one # > # > # and one using coolant... the later is preferred as the electric # > uses # > # > 12A. # > # > # # > # > # The thing is I may not run veggie oil all the time... don't think I # > want # > # > # to heat my bioDiesel... or my Diesel... or do I? # > # > # # > # > # Anyway, that means if I don't run a separate tank I may need # > another # > # > valve # > # > # setup to switch the heater in and out... :) # > # > # # > # > # john # > # > # # > # > # ----- # > # > # # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # > mold # > # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2805 **********************************