From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jul 6 23:14:24 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, July 7 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2811 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] seat heater question ('99 WJ/Chrysler) RE: [db] adventures with seats and windows RE: [db] adventures with seats and windows [db] 2004 Jetta TDI and 1984 Mercedes 300D Re: [db] window motor Re: [db] 2004 Jetta TDI and 1984 Mercedes 300D Re: [db] Europe travels [db] fotos Re: [db] Europe travels [db] heated seats, and leaking Diesel lines Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 13:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] seat heater question ('99 WJ/Chrysler) I'm installing a pair of leather heated seats from a '99 WJ (grand cherokee) into my '91 Grand Wagoneer... already figured out bracketry, and 10-way wiring, but am trying to figure out how to run the seat heaters. On the '99 WJ they have the heat control regulated by a NTC resistor in the heating element that is supplied with +5V. The problem is that this signal is sent to the BODY computer, which I don't have... the seat module doesn't appear to have all the intelligence... However, it appears that the body computer may only be used to operate the switch on the dash. It has three different resistances that feed the body computer. what's perplexing is the resistance of the factory heated seat switch: Fig. 1 Heated Seat Switch HEATED SEAT SWITCH TEST SWITCH POSITION RESISTANCE BETWEEN RESISTANCE (OHMS) Off Pin 1 & 6 60 Low Pin 1 & 6 1435 High Pin 1 & 6 370 why is OFF 60 ohms??? one would think it would open... the resistances of the other two positions might be the way it is regulated... that is if the current flows through the switch, which is somewhat unlikely... the seat module has the inputs to the element and the thermistor... hi operation is 105F, low is 100F... the seat back and bottom are in series... I could just apply 12v to the inputs and let it heat up, but there wouldn't be any thermal limitation and it could get quite toasty... the thermistor circuit runs off of 5v according to the schematic, so if I use the seat module how would I control the output??? I'm looking at aftermarket switches for seat heaters, but all of them have the thermistor built into the seats and no schematics... I guess my options are to figure out how this thing works and design a control, or get the body computer... ;) anyone know of any controllers for heated seats that I can use? Simple is better... thoughts? Ideas? I'm going to install the seats with two wire leads going to the elments themselves, only four bolts to pull 'em again. Time to drill the bases and mount. :) Just have to wire up the 10-way on the passenger side first.... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 17:26:24 -0500 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: RE: [db] adventures with seats and windows > -----Original Message----- > For dinner we went to town in the 300D and the driver's window is > acting up... loud > clunking noise when almost at the top... going up or down... won't go > either way on its own now... had to force it up by hand. :( Is > that the track that's > gone bad??? Not looking forward to that repair... > > john > I take that noise as a sign that some of the teeth on the window regulator are gone. Got the same issue in the final weeks with my 89 300CE, and I was told by one reputable indie mechanic shop that the W124 regulator is riveted in place, not simply screwed in place like the W123. And I wouldn't have too much faith in a replacement used regulator, but that's just me. Alec ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 16:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] adventures with seats and windows oh happy joy joy... get to drill and replace something entwined in the door... :( ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: # # # > -----Original Message----- # > For dinner we went to town in the 300D and the driver's window is # > acting up... loud # > clunking noise when almost at the top... going up or down... won't go # > either way on its own now... had to force it up by hand. :( Is # > that the track that's # > gone bad??? Not looking forward to that repair... # > # > john # > # # I take that noise as a sign that some of the teeth on the window regulator # are gone. # Got the same issue in the final weeks with my 89 300CE, and I was told by # one reputable indie mechanic shop that the W124 regulator is riveted in # place, not simply screwed in place like the W123. # # And I wouldn't have too much faith in a replacement used regulator, but # that's just me. # # Alec # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 18:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: [db] 2004 Jetta TDI and 1984 Mercedes 300D Well, I missed out on the 2004 Jetta TDI. It sold this afternoon before I could get there to have them look at my trade-in. I'll keep looking... In other news, there's a '84 300D for sale right near where my wife and son work. Nice looking car, about 135k miles, asking $4700. That's too steep for my blood. I just can't pay that much for a 23 year old car. $3500.... maybe... Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 18:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] window motor Or maybe Jason has some left over from scrapping out Bennie?? Jason?? Jim - --- john wrote: > contact aurora auto wrecking in seattle... info > should > be on my server under PARTS. > > john > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, S.D.Byers wrote: > > # I have some cash for a good used 80s electric > motor, anybody got some? > # > # Simon. > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 19:05:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 2004 Jetta TDI and 1984 Mercedes 300D my son paid $2300 for his '85 300D... not perfect, but not a pile of junk either... the guy was asking $3500, but since he didn't have to advertise and my son just got out of the air force he made us a nice cash deal... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Well, I missed out on the 2004 Jetta TDI. It sold # this # afternoon before I could get there to have them look # at my trade-in. I'll keep looking... # # In other news, there's a '84 300D for sale right near # where my wife and son work. Nice looking car, about # 135k miles, asking $4700. That's too steep for my # blood. I just can't pay that much for a 23 year old # car. $3500.... maybe... # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 19:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] Europe travels Sounds like you had a great time. Thanks for the story! I hope I can do it some day... Jim - --- Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Back from Ireland and Scotland - thought I would > post fuel consumption > and costs for the 2008 VW Golf diesel. > > Peacocks Hotel Garage - Maam Cross - Connemara 649.3 > KM 41.69 L of fuel > for Euros 62.49 that is a skosh over 100 bucks for > 11.01 Gal and 403.45 > miles yielding 36.64 MPG > > Sweeney Oil - Main Street - Moycullen Galway 56.41 > Euros 38.92 L and > 702.7 KM run - this works out to 436.367 Miles and > 10.28 Gal yielding > 42.47 MPG (best, most highway) > > Maxol Service station 179 Navan Road, Dublin - > 55.13 Euros 35.40 L and > 615 KM run - that is 382.33 Miles and 9.35 Gal > yielding 40.89 MPG > > I rented a Ford Focus diesel wagon in Scotland but > was so disappointed > with it's performance, vague steering, 80 LB force > accelerator spring > and other annoying characteristics that I did not > bother to record > mileage or consumption. It is a terrible car, even > with its new tech. > zetec diesel engine. Engine did not have as much > torque as the Golf and > there was so little engine noise that I kept having > trouble hearing when > to shift, ended having to keep paying constant > attention to the RPM > gauge to shift, most annoying. Some sound proofing > is good, but not so > much that you can't hear the engine at all over the > road noise. > > Just in case you are wondering, that is about 9 > bucks a gallon in > Ireland. Scotland was 30.79 Pounds for 22.99 L (at > above -at-2.00 per > pound) which works out to 6.07 gallons for 61 > dollars or very near $10/gal. > > I don't agree that our fuel oil in USA should cost > $5/gal and we need to > start developing our own sources ASAP, as the cost > of base product to > all countries is about the same and the rest is > TAXES! > > Will post pictures on a server with link when I get > some time. Sorry to > the listers in Ireland, was so busy with SWMBO's > schedule of places to > visit and things to do that all other stuff fell by > the wayside. Next > time we plan to rent a place and stay in one area > with a lot less > driving. Had a blast with the narrow roads and 100 > KPH with 4" clearance > to the hedges and the oncoming traffic, wife was > very tolerant as she > saw how much fun I was having. > > BTW, wife's family is Cahill/Kinnavy. There are > Joyces, Touheys and > others if you go back far enough with all the links. > > Edward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:59:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] fotos garden fotos: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/07-Jul-05-garden/ALL.html on dialup, use this: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/07-Jul-05-garden/ from last weekend: drive up to Mt.Vernon: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-28-mtvernon-stanwood/ALL.html drive down coast to get Bantam trailer: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/06-Jun-27-bantam-trailer-adventure/ALL.html TECHNICAL: Still making improvement to the '91 Grand Wagoneer with the 6.2L Diesel (24 mpg freeway!). This weekend, seats... coming up better motor mounts to reduce vibration, an inline fuel pump to help smooth out lower rpm operation, cruise control and finish up the a/c setup... almost done... Today, swapped out the cloth WJ seats I had installed in my '91 Grand Wagoneer, installed heated leather seats... not tan, and not the top of the line, but nicer... provided detailed pictures of where to drill and what wires to connect: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Leather_WJ_seats-5-July-2008/ john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:03:03 +0100 From: "Stephen Rigley" Subject: Re: [db] Europe travels Excellent! Great to hear you had a good trip! Heh, Moycullen is 5 mins from my work place. Great driving roads our there and in the burren. Maam cross for fuel LOL Crazy prices.. Steve On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > Back from Ireland and Scotland - thought I would post fuel consumption and > costs for the 2008 VW Golf diesel. > > Peacocks Hotel Garage - Maam Cross - Connemara 649.3 KM 41.69 L of fuel for > Euros 62.49 that is a skosh over 100 bucks for 11.01 Gal and 403.45 miles > yielding 36.64 MPG > > Sweeney Oil - Main Street - Moycullen Galway 56.41 Euros 38.92 L and > 702.7 KM run - this works out to 436.367 Miles and 10.28 Gal yielding 42.47 > MPG (best, most highway) > > Maxol Service station 179 Navan Road, Dublin - 55.13 Euros 35.40 L and 615 > KM run - that is 382.33 Miles and 9.35 Gal yielding 40.89 MPG > > I rented a Ford Focus diesel wagon in Scotland but was so disappointed with > it's performance, vague steering, 80 LB force accelerator spring and other > annoying characteristics that I did not bother to record mileage or > consumption. It is a terrible car, even with its new tech. zetec diesel > engine. Engine did not have as much torque as the Golf and there was so > little engine noise that I kept having trouble hearing when to shift, ended > having to keep paying constant attention to the RPM gauge to shift, most > annoying. Some sound proofing is good, but not so much that you can't hear > the engine at all over the road noise. > > Just in case you are wondering, that is about 9 bucks a gallon in Ireland. > Scotland was 30.79 Pounds for 22.99 L (at above -at-2.00 per pound) which works > out to 6.07 gallons for 61 dollars or very near $10/gal. > > I don't agree that our fuel oil in USA should cost $5/gal and we need to > start developing our own sources ASAP, as the cost of base product to all > countries is about the same and the rest is TAXES! > Will post pictures on a server with link when I get some time. Sorry to the > listers in Ireland, was so busy with SWMBO's schedule of places to visit and > things to do that all other stuff fell by the wayside. Next time we plan to > rent a place and stay in one area with a lot less driving. Had a blast with > the narrow roads and 100 KPH with 4" clearance to the hedges and the > oncoming traffic, wife was very tolerant as she saw how much fun I was > having. > > BTW, wife's family is Cahill/Kinnavy. There are Joyces, Touheys and others > if you go back far enough with all the links. > > Edward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 23:14:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] heated seats, and leaking Diesel lines jeep (and daimler chrysler) in their infinite wisdom chose to separate the control and leave that function to the body computer... the negative temp coefficient resistor as part of the pad has separate leads... so I need to use those leads to feed some sort of controller or regulater... wife actually is using it, with the cigarette plug right now. ;) she noted that the back heats more than the bottom, (they're in series right now), which helps her back... she's talking about taking a trip to portland in the Diesel Jeep to test out the seats... finds the back of them comfortable... whoo hoo... just need to get it running right again, another fuel line is leaking again and it won't idle... the ideas that my friend had just didn't work out... flared tubing and rubber hoses with a Diesel don't work... so I've been pulling lines, taking a bath in Diesel, using the tubing cutter to smooth the end and reattaching... also added an electric pump after the solenoid to feed the primary pump, that helps get it started quicker, but now the shutoff solenoid appears to have failed... :( I'm very happy my allergies are not bothered by Diesel and Biodiesel, if this were gas I'd be sick as a dog... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 6 Jul 2008, griggy-at-dslnorthwest.net wrote: # On my Volvo 240 there are two heat settings, High which runs the seat and # back pads in parallel so they both see 12V, and Low which connects them in # series for 6V across each pad. As far as I can tell from the manual any heat # regulation is internal to the pad and not a function of a sensor going to an # external controller. # # If you let me know what resistance you heater pads have I can compare them to # what I have and if they are close you may be able to run them unregulated. # # GAS # # # # >They have sensors and appear to switch the voltage to the heaters to # >regulate them. # > # >They have two positions, hi and low (well, three, off). The switches on # >the WJ # >dash are not switches in the normal sense, but send a signal to the body # >computer # >which then regulates the temp of the pads to 100 deg F for low, and 105 deg # >F for high. # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2811 **********************************