From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 10 11:49:54 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, September 10 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2857 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] three days in the mountains of BC and WA - 20.66 mpg [db] Snohomish - Kamloops - Salmon Arm - Leavenworth Re: [db] electric motors [db] RE: fsj: Re: electric motors [db] Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: [db] electric motors Re: [db] electric motors [db] RE: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] three days in the mountains of BC and WA - 20.66 mpg after 970 miles through British Columbia and Eastern Washingon, the Blazer with a 6.5L Diesel used 46.9 gallons of Diesel (and BioDiesel) at a cost of $179.90 (effective price for the Diesel was $3.83 - used 10 gallons of BioDiesel to reduce costs.) (which is good considering Petrol in BC was $1.39/liter or about $5.26/gal - Diesel was LESS at 1.33/liter where I tanked up (Kamloops, BC). And the US dollar is 3 cents stronger, so the $98.94 was actually less than that... :) BOTTOM LINE: 20.66 mpg - this is pretty decent considering we spent all three days in the mountains, going up and down, twisty windy two lane roads with lots of small towns... The 6.2L in the Grand Wagoneer would have gotten better mileage, but we would have had our internals vibrated to paralysis... the next conversion gets the GM (or whatever factory) mounts (which, btw, GM mounts went back east with Omega so the new owners can get that taken care of! The other recommended mod is the updated glow plug controller setup.) Overall, the Blazer wasn't bad, but it wasn't "great" either... the ride quality and quiet is superb, but it lacks a "light" feel to it and while it handles quite well, it doesn't let the pilot realize it's capabilities or encourage using them. I found myself driving it slower than any other vehicle I've owned, yet both my wife and I felt we were driving faster... I guess it'll keep us out of trouble... In other words while the 6.5L Diesel drivetrain is superb, but if someone came up and offered me money for this Blazer it would disappear quickly. At $3.83/gallon effective costs we could have driven the Grand Cherokee. :) well, not if we filled up in Canada, $1.39/liter for Petrol, $1.33 for Diesel... I'm doing a rethink on this Blazer thing... If I can fit a pair of WJ leather seats in my Mercedes 300D, I think the Blazer is history and the WJ will stick around for 4x4 and towing... ;) What was interesting is that Gas prices were fairly consistent in each area and across the province... We headed out for Jasper/Banff and Glacier, but once in Kamloops we figured out we really didn't want to drive even further north... so we headed east for Glacier (Revelstokes), but near Salmon Arm we realized it was hazy with rain predicted for the next day, and with no snow in the pass we decided to get a schnitzel and headed south down 97 to Leavenworth, WA. Saw some beautiful countryside, lakes, rivers, mountains... walked around the Wenachtee River in Leavenworth today... beautiful... glad to be back home. :) pictures: (don't have the 8th and 9th fully sorted yet... be there soon...) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-07-trip-north-Snohomish-to-KamloopsBC/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamloopsBC-to-Leavenworth/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamloopsBC-to-Leavenworth/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/ALL.html john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 23:12:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Snohomish - Kamloops - Salmon Arm - Leavenworth took a short drive through British Columbia... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-07-trip-north-Snohomish-to-KamloopsBC/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/ALL.html http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/ALL.html (if you're on dialup view the directory instead of "ALL.html") a few highlights: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/DSC_0063.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/DSC_0103.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/DSC_0068.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/P1060587.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-08-KamploopsBC-to-Leavenworth/DSC_0052.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/DSC_0082.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/DSC_0093.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/DSC_0025.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/DSC_0131.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/09-Sep-09-Leavenworth/DSC_0207.jpg ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] electric motors > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic 300GD for my > '83 J10 Stepside > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel powered > rig. :) Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about everyone else but "I" think it's a little late for that!!! ;) Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: fsj: Re: electric motors the idea is not to have a transfer case... straight 2wd mercedes engine/trans, with an electric motor on the front axle... the transmission could free wheel in neutral... the mercedes transmissions have a rear pump so no damage would result in motoring around at 30 to 45 mph in electric mode... would be some parasitic losses, but not that much more than moving 4,500lbs of FSJ and driver about. if I go with a transfer case I'll scratch the idea of the electric motor... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # NP208 will allow you to do that. If it's in 2wd, the front driveshaft is # freewheeling. Part of why I was looking into doing that with mine, but lack of # money and time has been keeping me from following through (especially since # I'm working 12 hour days now 6 days a week) Having locking hubs on the rear # axle (MUCH easier to do with full floaters) will enable you not to turn the # other mass of axles and diff at the same time. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > From: proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net # > To: john-at-wagoneers.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: Re: electric motors # > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:53:01 -0400 # > # > you'd also have to have a method of disengaging one system while the other # > system is operational. you don't want to drive the internals of that # tranny # > by the rear wheels whilst trucking around on electrical power. # > # > Neal A. Hoover # > Project '76 J-10 # > Project '96 XJ # > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ^S10 hidden secrets^T from Jamie. # http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 # F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Victor Jorge (vjorge) wrote: # Hi John et al, # I've been contemplating changing over to Amsoil, I have always heard # good/great things about it, but I am fearing what I've experienced long # time ago when I went to Mobil 1 Synthetic. I slowly began developing oil # leaks to the point that I went back to dino oil and the leaks slowly # stopped. I have this theory that Synthetic is so thin, that it will # permeate through the gaskets, if not locked down tight, and it will # leak. # # I have a WJ with 90k on the clock, not a drip of engine oil # anywhere, and fear if I went to Amsoil synthetic that I would start # seeping oil everywhere which is something I don't want to deal with. # # # Thanks in advance, # Victor # Victor, et al. I've been an amsoil dealer since 1983. If you have a leak now, you'll have a leak after switching... the thing is not that synthetic is thinner, it clings, so you see where it's leaking, dino oil goes away, runs off... amsoil has had seal swelling agents in their formulation for a long, long time... they started out in 1973... they've got it figured out. I have one mechanic friend that looked at the Series 2000 oil when it first came out... looked a bit like ATF... he thought it was too thin and that I wouldn't have any oil pressure in my 4.0L... he was wrong, I had MORE oil pressure than before, and better mileage too! I have converted every vehicle I've kept for more than a month :) to amsoil. several over 200,000 miles even, without trouble. my wj went from 18 mpg to almost 21 by switching over... my K1500 Blazer 6.5L Diesel just got 20.66 mpg in the mountains after switching to amsoil and a few other mods, best before was about 17 to 18 on a good day... hard to tell usually on a Diesel because I find I have more usuable power, and drive quicker... losing the edge, but my 300D typically gets around 28 to 30 mpg in town... epa rating is around 27 or so. so, as the eagles say, "get over it". or as nike says, just do it. I promise you that amsoil will not "seep" through the seals. You have to remember that when mobilone was developed initially it was synthesized hydrocarbons... in other words they took dino oil and made it all the same molecular size... they didn't do anything to extend the drain interval like amsoil does, and I'm thinking they didn't add seal swelling agents to their mix, so they would have leaked if you had places to leak... I've got amsoil in my '91 300D, over 250,000 miles, no puddles underneath, never have to add oil.... oil changes have been 17,000, and 24,000! Oil analysis indicates that the oil was still good when I pulled it out. I've got amsoil in my '99 WJ, have had since we bought it 3 years ago, it's been to South Dakota twice, once in 100+ temps and once in snow... no leaks, and it has over 153,000 miles on it... had 130,000 when we got it.. I've got amsoil in my '94 Blazer with the 6.5L. Just drove it about 1,000 miles up in BC in the mountains... no oil consumption and 20.66 mpg. I've even got amsoil in my lawnmower... :) and chainsaw... so, don't worry... but one thing you may need to do is change the filter after a few thousand miles, the synthetic will tend to clean up any junk in there, especially if you've been using some of those nasty dino oils... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:44:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] electric motors my we should just take a donation and I can go and buy a new factory Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a barge, long as a freight train and has an automatic and heated leather seats... and a/c of course... ;) otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # # > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic 300GD for my # > '83 J10 Stepside # > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel powered # > rig. :) # # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about everyone else but "I" # think it's a little late for that!!! # # ;) # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] electric motors Why would I give money to "stop" you from building more vehicles? This entertainment is free!!!!!! ;) Jim - --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors > To: "Jim Hoffman" > Cc: "diesel-benz list" > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM > my we should just take a donation and I can go and buy a new > factory > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a barge, long > as a freight train > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... and a/c of > course... ;) > > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > http://wagoneers.com > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic > 300GD for my > # > '83 J10 Stepside > # > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel > powered > # > rig. :) > # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about > everyone else but "I" > # think it's a little late for that!!! > # > # ;) > # > # Jim > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:49:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Victor Jorge (vjorge) wrote: # Hi John, # Thanks for the response, what oil are you running in your WJ with # the 4.7L? That way I can see if my local speed shop has some or I could # work with you to purchase some from you to get it into my next oil # change to try this out. From your response, it seems that it is the way # to go. :-) # # Thanks, # Victor # I'm using: '99 WJ, 4.7: Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil '91 300D, 2.5L TD: Series 3000 SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil '94 K1500, 6.5L TD: SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil you can view specs and order on line through my website, http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 or call the toll free number 1-800-956-5695 please use customer number 283461 or you can buy it locally... I don't make very much on an oil change, something like $5 to $10, depending on how much someone buys... no plans on retiring and living off of this as an income source... every other month or so it gives me some lunch money. :) I try not to push it too hard on the lists, but with fuel prices the way they are it really helps... and protects your engine as well... it really does work and is a quality product. Anyway, when you get to the amsoil page, click on the MOTOR OIL or DIESEL OIL tabs in the upper left and you'll see a page describing the oils and prices. click on more and get all the details... you kind of have to read through some marketing fluff to get to the good stuff. ;) I can't remember what I put in my daughter's '97 XJ, I think she ended up with 10w40 that I had in the shop... her boyfriend is running either 0w30 or 5w30 in his sedan... If I keep the Blazer I may switch it over to the Series 3000 5w30 as well. The price difference isn't that much, around $3/qt to get the better stuff, the service range is a bit more with the better stuff, see below. 35,000 miles! The 4.7L V8 has done well with the 0w30. Here's one of the graphics on the oil performance: http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/sso_4ball_400px.gif interesting, just reading the specs on this oil: Service Life AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows: . Normal Service(3) . Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. . Severe Service(4) . Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first. . Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals). . In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval. If you warm up your vehicle everytime you drive it, then going longer than a year isn't a problem, it is recommended to change the filter though. The 5w30 Diesel oil I use says this: SERVICE LIFE AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) vehicles or equipment as follows: Personal Light Truck Diesel or Gasoline Engine Service . Normal Service(3) . Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. . Severe Service(4) . Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. . Replace AMSOIL Ea. full flow oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles (other brands at standard OEM* intervals). Decided to check on the 15w40 oil I've been using in my 6.2 and 6.5 Diesels, same mileage: and, check out this graph for the 15w40: http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/amepco_noack_2004.gif Any synthetic oil is an improvement over dino oil... lots of lesser priced synthetics on the shelf at most stores... may not offer extended drain intervals but in this day and age I suspect they won't be a problem and should have seal swelling agents and not turn to goo in an engine... :) Amsoil has been around since 1972. 'nuff said... I'm going out to see if I can fit WJ leather seats in my '91 300D... if I can, that Blazer is for sale... 3 days in that thing was enough for me... Kind of miss Omega, but with the vibrations caused by motor mounts, not much... the WJ is nice, but my '91 300D is the best ride in the drive, just a bit low to the ground. ;) Since we burned up our share of BioDiesel for the month I'll be forced to drive my benz to work until I collect more WVO. ;) life is rough, eh? :) feel free to ask any technical questions, happy to do some research on this kind of thing, and if you don't to buy from me, no hard feelings... I'm an amsoil dealer because it's a good product and I use it, not because I'm trying to get rich. I have a good day job. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ________________________________ # # From: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com [mailto:WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com] On # Behalf Of john # Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:43 AM # To: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com # Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil # # # # On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Victor Jorge (vjorge) wrote: # # # Hi John et al, # # I've been contemplating changing over to Amsoil, I have always heard # # good/great things about it, but I am fearing what I've experienced # long # # time ago when I went to Mobil 1 Synthetic. I slowly began developing # oil # # leaks to the point that I went back to dino oil and the leaks slowly # # stopped. I have this theory that Synthetic is so thin, that it will # # permeate through the gaskets, if not locked down tight, and it will # # leak. # # # # I have a WJ with 90k on the clock, not a drip of engine oil # # anywhere, and fear if I went to Amsoil synthetic that I would start # # seeping oil everywhere which is something I don't want to deal with. # # # # # # Thanks in advance, # # Victor # # # # Victor, et al. # # I've been an amsoil dealer since 1983. If you have a leak now, you'll # have a leak after switching... the thing is not that synthetic is # thinner, it clings, # so you see where it's leaking, dino oil goes away, runs off... # # amsoil has had seal swelling agents in their formulation for a long, # long # time... they started out in 1973... they've got it figured out. # # I have one mechanic friend that looked at the Series 2000 oil when it # first came out... looked a bit like ATF... he thought it was too thin # and that I wouldn't have any oil pressure in my 4.0L... he was wrong, I # had MORE oil pressure than before, and better mileage too! # # I have converted every vehicle I've kept for more than a month :) to # amsoil. several over 200,000 miles even, without trouble. # # my wj went from 18 mpg to almost 21 by switching over... # # my K1500 Blazer 6.5L Diesel just got 20.66 mpg in the mountains # after switching to amsoil and a few other mods, best before was # about 17 to 18 on a good day... # # hard to tell usually on a Diesel because I find I have more usuable # power, and drive quicker... losing the edge, but my 300D typically # gets around 28 to 30 mpg in town... epa rating is around 27 or so. # # so, as the eagles say, "get over it". or as nike says, just do it. # # I promise you that amsoil will not "seep" through the seals. # # You have to remember that when mobilone was developed initially # it was synthesized hydrocarbons... in other words they took dino # oil and made it all the same molecular size... they didn't do anything # to extend the drain interval like amsoil does, and I'm thinking they # didn't add seal swelling agents to their mix, so they would have leaked # if you had places to leak... # # I've got amsoil in my '91 300D, over 250,000 miles, no puddles # underneath, # never have to add oil.... oil changes have been 17,000, and 24,000! Oil # analysis indicates that the oil was still good when I pulled it out. # # I've got amsoil in my '99 WJ, have had since we bought it 3 years ago, # it's been to South Dakota twice, once in 100+ temps and once in snow... # no leaks, and it has over 153,000 miles on it... had 130,000 when we # got it.. # # I've got amsoil in my '94 Blazer with the 6.5L. Just drove it # about 1,000 miles up in BC in the mountains... no oil consumption # and 20.66 mpg. # # I've even got amsoil in my lawnmower... :) and chainsaw... # # so, don't worry... but one thing you may need to do is change the filter # after a few thousand miles, the synthetic will tend to clean up any # junk in there, especially if you've been using some of those nasty dino # oils... # # john # ----- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2857 **********************************