From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 10 20:22:12 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, September 11 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2858 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] electric motors [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: [db] electric motors Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: [db] electric motors Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] electric motors ah yes, well then, come on over I need help upgrading the snohomish monster garage, picked up five free 24' long trusses!!! :) and it's NOT raining today! yee haw... but first, will those wj seats fit in my 124 series 300D? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Why would I give money to "stop" you from building more vehicles? # This entertainment is free!!!!!! # # ;) # # Jim # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # > From: john # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors # > To: "Jim Hoffman" # > Cc: "diesel-benz list" # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM # > my we should just take a donation and I can go and buy a new # > factory # > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a barge, long # > as a freight train # > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... and a/c of # > course... ;) # > # > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # > rust, they mold # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > http://wagoneers.com # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic # > 300GD for my # > # > '83 J10 Stepside # > # > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel # > powered # > # > rig. :) # > # # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about # > everyone else but "I" # > # think it's a little late for that!!! # > # # > # ;) # > # # > # Jim # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil wrong, when Mobil1 came out in the LATE 70's it was a synthesized hydrocarbon, reformulated dino oil... I remember reading about it and buying it... I may still have the articles... if you can help me find them in my office. ;) They talked about making oil better... it wasn't designed initially for extended drain intervals. One advantage they found was they needed fewer VI extenders, (viscosity index improvers - used to make oil consistent over wider temps... typically this breaks down quickly and you end up with a heavier oil in the crankcase... it also can be bad in a Diesel, that's why 10w40 is not to be used in most Diesels... the vi improvers deposit on the rings causing damage...) Mobil1 didn't go to a true synthetic base (polyol or dibasic acid esthers) until a few years ago... Castrol didn't come out with one until even later... I don't know the exact date, but can make a call and find out if it's important. ;) none of the petro companies synthetics were formulated for extended drain intervals. but regardless, any synthesized/reformulated hydrocarbon, or true synthetic made from synthetic base stock, is better than dino oil, mainly for the reason that Mobil1 promoted in the late '70s, uniform molecular size... it permits better filtration and even lubrication... in addition the synthetics tend to have an electrical attraction to metal and "cling", reducing startup wear and even providing lubrication if you lose your oil pan or filter... my '80 Olds with a 5.7L Diesel was driven 2 miles up hill with NO oil in the crankcase and survived because of this princple! My wife was dropping the kids off at a neighbor's and something at the construction site there came up and smacked the oil filter, drained the pan... I've heard numerous stories about amsoil customers losing a radiator and driving hundreds of miles to get home with only the oil as a coolant... synthetics and bioDiesel... a cure for the common oilwell syndrome. ;) the base stock for synthetics typically come from corn or soybeans but can also be made from coal or other stuff, including petroleum... the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis confirm that I could have gone longer!!! saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being produced. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] electric motors Brother, if I were in "reasonable" driving distance I'd be there! Jim - --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors > To: "Jim Hoffman" > Cc: "full size jeep list" , "xj-list" , "diesel-benz list" > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 1:50 PM > ah yes, well then, come on over I need help upgrading the > snohomish monster garage, > picked up five free 24' long trusses!!! :) and > it's NOT raining today! > > yee haw... > > but first, will those wj seats fit in my 124 series 300D? > :) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > http://wagoneers.com > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # Why would I give money to "stop" you from > building more vehicles? > # This entertainment is free!!!!!! > # > # ;) > # > # Jim > # > # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john > wrote: > # > # > From: john > # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors > # > To: "Jim Hoffman" > > # > Cc: "diesel-benz list" > > # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM > # > my we should just take a donation and I can go and > buy a new > # > factory > # > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a > barge, long > # > as a freight train > # > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... > and a/c of > # > course... ;) > # > > # > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) > # > > # > ----- > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > don't > # > rust, they mold > # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: > # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > SAVE power: use LINUX: > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > # > http://wagoneers.com > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > > # > # > # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an > Automatic > # > 300GD for my > # > # > '83 J10 Stepside > # > # > and save me the trouble of building another > Diesel > # > powered > # > # > rig. :) > # > # > # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know > about > # > everyone else but "I" > # > # think it's a little late for that!!! > # > # > # > # ;) > # > # > # > # Jim > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:14:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil What does anyone know about Royal Purple? True synthetic? Or synthesized hydrocarbon, reformulated dino oil? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] electric motors thanx... I know you would... it's amazing how many from the list locally show up to help or visit... these lists are fantastic... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Brother, if I were in "reasonable" driving distance I'd be there! # # Jim # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # > From: john # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors # > To: "Jim Hoffman" # > Cc: "full size jeep list" , "xj-list" , "diesel-benz list" # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 1:50 PM # > ah yes, well then, come on over I need help upgrading the # > snohomish monster garage, # > picked up five free 24' long trusses!!! :) and # > it's NOT raining today! # > # > yee haw... # > # > but first, will those wj seats fit in my 124 series 300D? # > :) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # > rust, they mold # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > http://wagoneers.com # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # Why would I give money to "stop" you from # > building more vehicles? # > # This entertainment is free!!!!!! # > # # > # ;) # > # # > # Jim # > # # > # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john # > wrote: # > # # > # > From: john # > # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors # > # > To: "Jim Hoffman" # > # > # > Cc: "diesel-benz list" # > # > # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM # > # > my we should just take a donation and I can go and # > buy a new # > # > factory # > # > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a # > barge, long # > # > as a freight train # > # > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... # > and a/c of # > # > course... ;) # > # > # > # > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > don't # > # > rust, they mold # > # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # > # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > SAVE power: use LINUX: # > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > # > http://wagoneers.com # > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # > # > # # > # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an # > Automatic # > # > 300GD for my # > # > # > '83 J10 Stepside # > # > # > and save me the trouble of building another # > Diesel # > # > powered # > # > # > rig. :) # > # > # # > # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know # > about # > # > everyone else but "I" # > # > # think it's a little late for that!!! # > # > # # > # > # ;) # > # > # # > # > # Jim # > # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:48:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil have heard about it, I believe it is a true synthetic, and if memory serves me correctly, it was someone who may have taken info from amsoil and started their own... amsoil used to tell us how things were formulated, but when a few creative types took off on their own they quit sharing technical info... I might be wrong, but I vaguely recall hearing about this in that context. If you're interested I can look into it... synthetics started out in Germany during WWII, the Germans had to come up with something that would keep things moving on the eastern front, they had large coal reserves but not so much oil... so they made oil from coal... that there are many making synthetics is a good thing. :) I've seen rp at a few shops... probably decent stuff... would guess it's a true synthetic... if you google it and find tech info share the link and I'll look it over... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # What does anyone know about Royal Purple? True synthetic? # Or synthesized hydrocarbon, reformulated dino oil? # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:18:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil Well, appears to be a true synthetic... http://www.royalpurple.com/ Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil didn't doubt it wasn't a real synthetic. :) could find nothing of a technical nature on their website... just normal synthetic performance benefits... I'm sure it's decent stuff... couldn't even find their recommened extended mileage info... I'll dig around a bit and see if I can find anything interesting... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Well, appears to be a true synthetic... # # http://www.royalpurple.com/ # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:21:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil you make a good point... changing the filter is a recommended practice with amsoil, about once a year... the benefit of the synthetic is it holds more in suspension than does dino oil... also, it's formulated without all the extra additives to have good thermal properties so it doesn't break down over time... basic dino oil has issues under stress, synthetics don't. Detergent is an additive because the oil was leaving deposits, ash, varnish and such as the volatile elements evoporated or cooked off... adding additives to used dino oil is like adding fresh coffee grounds to your old grounds and expecting good coffee... it'll be ok, but it won't be the same... I think they call that Navy coffee... I don't know, I was in the Army, we didn't reuse our grounds. ;) dino oil can be reprocessed and recycled, it's cleaned in a centrifuge and then an additive package is added back in... many governments, including the military use this oil, but it's durability and balance isn't as good and I wouldn't recommend it... it's fine for burning in a Diesel as fuel though. ;) a good dino oil of the right viscosity, meaning a straight weight, properly filtered and monitored for proper ph balance could indeed go longer than the recommended amount, in fact, that's what mercedes is probably doing with their newer rigs, monitoring the oil quality... but synthetics of any brand are better from the start than dino oil... less volatiles to boil off, less impurities to deal with and a common molecular size so filtration is more effective, and you have a natural electrical charge to the oil to make it cling to the surfaces providing enhanced fricition reduction and reduced oxidation/rust of the engine... also better thermal transfer... synthetics are an absolute and total no-brainer, anyone saying dino oil is better has some serious reading to do, has a major mental flaw or deficiency or is listening to an ill-informed idiot who thinks that synthetics cause oil leaks and is too thin. :) there have been bad synthetics made early on... they aren't around any more... I only know amsoil, so I can't speak about other brands, but basic logic tells me that they will still be better than any known dino or mineral oil. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Ed Kummel wrote: # Not to make this a "synthetic oil" list, I do have a question. # you state the main benefit of synth oils (see below for copied excerpt) # If you do use synth oil and drive your vehicle beyond the recommended 3kmiles that dino oil says, what about the oil filter? Should this be changed at the regular 3kmile intervals? I would think that the oil is accumulating the same amount of debris as regular dino oil, so the filter should be getting pretty well clogged at 20k miles! # And what about oil detergents? I read (somewhere) that not only does the oil viscosity break down over time/use, but the oil detergents become useless in 3kmiles. In fact, I remember reading (again, somewhere) that if you can put the additives back into your crankcase oil, dino oil should be good for 6-10k miles. # Any thoughts? # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Never mind that we just had an incredibly cold winter in North America and huge record snowfalls across the continent. As Al Gore said to a bunch of us the other day, these record cold spells and record snowfalls are actually caused by global warming. To which Jerry York replied, 'Jeez then I guess we better stop this global warming before we all f**king freeze to death, eh?' # # - 'Fake' Steve Jobs 3/24/08 blog entry # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # From: john # Subject: xj: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil # To: "Jim Blair" # Cc: "xj-list" , "diesel-benz list" , "full size jeep list" # Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 3:03 PM # # the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! # I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis # confirm that I could have gone longer!!! # # saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection # against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the # "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # # # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the # modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the # definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit # online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which # is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being # produced. # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2858 **********************************